Can I hold two Permanent Residency status at the same time?

[dpenabill]

I'll bite the ad hominem apple here and suggest not feeding the troll. What's obvious is, well, obvious.

To be clear, there is no shortage of horror stories about U.S. border control abuse. Even U.S. citizens let alone non-citizens. Been there done that, for NO sensible let alone legitimate reason whatsoever.

But this forum is NOT about U.S. border control or U.S. immigration, and NOT all that much about that S*hole country otherwise.

Nonetheless I will offer one rather telling comparison:

-- Permanent Residents (Green Card holders) in the U.S. are NOT Americans under U.S. law, and indeed continue to be designated "aliens" subject to a number of laws applicable to "aliens." They tend to be treated as "aliens."
-- In contrast, there are no "aliens" in Canadian law. There are Foreign Nationals and Canadians, and Permanent Residents in Canada are Canadians, under Canadian law, explicitly NOT foreign nationals. See IRPA Section 2(1).​

 

[21Goose]

Yeah, and I always find it weird when people make comparisons between the US and Canada.

USA - Population: ~330 million. GDP: ~21 Trillion Dollars. The world's strongest and largest economy.
Canada - Population: ~37 million. GDP: ~1.7 Trillion Dollars. The 10th largest economy. Nowhere near as much soft/hard power as the US.

Yes, if you look at an atlas, Canada looks like it's as big as the US and it's right next to the US, but that's just geography. The US economy is ~13 times bigger than Canada's economy. It's got 10 times more people.

Heck, there are many US states that have much bigger economies than Canada.

So sure, of course salaries are higher there, and jobs are easier to get. If you want to compare fairly, compare Canada with countries like Spain, South Korea, Italy, etc. Just because Canada has a lot of (mostly empty) land, doesn't mean that it can compare with the US, or China, or Germany.

How easy is it to immigrate to Spain and get a job there? Or Italy? Or SK?

You may as well say that a Honda Accord is not as fast or as fun to drive as a Ferrari. Sure, that's obvious, but what's your point?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I'll bite the ad hominem apple here and suggest not feeding the troll. What's obvious is, well, obvious.

To be clear, there is no shortage of horror stories about U.S. border control abuse. Even U.S. citizens let alone non-citizens. Been there done that, for NO sensible let alone legitimate reason whatsoever.

But this forum is NOT about U.S. border control or U.S. immigration, and NOT all that much about that S*hole country otherwise.

Nonetheless I will offer one rather telling comparison:

-- Permanent Residents (Green Card holders) in the U.S. are NOT Americans under U.S. law, and indeed continue to be designated "aliens" subject to a number of laws applicable to "aliens." They tend to be treated as "aliens."
-- In contrast, there are no "aliens" in Canadian law. There are Foreign Nationals and Canadians, and Permanent Residents in Canada are Canadians, under Canadian law, explicitly NOT foreign nationals. See IRPA Section 2(1).​

A very interesting comparative fact, thanks for sharing it.

 

[david1697]

Couldn't you commute to the US for work and still live in Canada?

In theory, yes, I could. In practice, it meant I had to move to somewhere close to Canadian border, like Buffalo, NY. This was just too costly endeavour. More expensive than the money we lost on applying and landing in Canada as PR's.

 

[david1697]

And yet, we still have those hundreds of thousands of PRs who come to Canada every year without "powerful connections blah blah" who get jobs without issue. You apparently think you are above others, such as a "garbage man", so that attitude probably had something to do with it.
I didn't compare job markets in the two countries. You made a statement about the US and I countered it.
You think that every time it was because US CBP has "something in database"? You think they put children in cages because those kid have done "something"?
https://qz.com/898566/customs-and-border-protection-agents-form-the-front-lines-of-a-60000-strong-pro-trump-immigration-force/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/harassment-at-us-airports_b_58b9c5e4e4b02eac8876ce2b
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/us/border-patrol-agent-harassment-allegation/index.html
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/migrant-kids-overcrowded-arizona-border-station-allege-sex-assault-retaliation-n1027886
https://www.aclu.org/issues/immigrants-rights/ice-and-border-patrol-abuses/immigration-and-customs-enforcement
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-horrifying-detail-women-accuse-us-customs-officers-of-invasive-body-searches/2018/08/18/ad7b7d82-9b38-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.bcc6d2227ea3
https://holdcbpaccountable.org/abuses/
And again, entirely your experience and not representative of the vast majority of experiences with CBSA.
No ad hominem attack here. You are citing your own personal experience, not facts. You continue to refuse to acknowledge or explain the experience of millions of other PRs who have succeeded in Canada where you did not. You prefer to blame Canada.
US green cards are often revoked for failing to live in the US, so I'm not sure how you can argue "there is no discussion" of it.

Getting defensive and resorting to ad hominem attacks expose vulnerability of your position. Why else shift the subject to my person? Perhaps you know what I say is true and how futile it would be to disprove my claims on their merit.

In all fairness one should NOT need to have connections to land an entry level job, but in Canada it's impossible to get any job unless you know someone who can "fix it" for you. Which begs the question: what is the difference between Canada and third world countries, where you also can land a job and make a living if you are well connected?

The articles you linked to are not applicable to what I was talking about. These "children" you read about in the news are illegally crossing the US border, and there is mounting evidence that many among them have criminal records and/or belong to notorious and very dangerous, violent street gangs. They are not children of law abiding US Permanent Residents. I didn't go to Canada as a member of violent street gang, I went there with zero criminal charges and convictions on my record and as Permanent Resident who had to go through multiple security checks to be granted PR visa.

I am a human being and my experience counts jsut as anyone else's. Perhaps, when you discount someone's first hand experience (of abuse by border agents and corrupt job market designed to kick out newcomers) it shows how you truly feel about your fellow Canadians, as if they were a mere nuisance to you and not legal residents deserving basic respect and fair shot at job market (note: as the poster above enlighted us I am by definition and under Canadian laws a Canadian ,and not a foreigner or an alien, and will remain so for as long as I retain my PR status).

Finally, I welcome you to come and browse US immigration forums, we have plenty of those. Try to find one where there is a separate subforum dedicated to RO and hundreds of posters asking how to get back to the US after a decade or so of absense. Most certainly we have people who lose PR status for variety of reasons (including for crimes of moral turpitude, felonies, drug trafficing, and even for not meeting residency obligation), but we don't have such a massive trend of newly immigrated US permanent residents leaving the country for years and then asking how to get back without detection. That's not some kind of a big issue here as it is in Canada, because people who are here with PR status don't have much of an insentive to go back to India, Bangladesh, Mexico or Nepal. Whereas, great many of Canadian PR's leave Canada for number of years, out of desperation and unable to fit in and get a job there. This is a serious problem that should above all concern people who love Canada and who believe themselves to be patriots of Canada.

 

[21Goose]

In all fairness one should NOT need to have connections to land an entry level job, but in Canada it's impossible to get any job unless you know someone who can "fix it" for you.

This is the thing - you're making sweeping statements based on your personal experience as if this applies to every single immigrant.

It's simply not true. I speak from personal experience. I was able to get a job without any "connections" (I didn't know a single soul in Canada), and a very good job at that. How did I get it? By applying for it (directly on the company's website), interviewing for it, and getting it based on my prior work experience and qualifications. Which company? One of Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, and Google. And no, I'm not a software developer/engineer, I work in a different field. I got the job within one month of moving here.

In my team at this company, there are 3 other Permanent Residents who got the job after they came here. Based on their experience and qualifications. I know dozens of other people with similar stories working in finance, marketing, law (this is special, they had to spend 18-24 months getting qualified here, but now they have great jobs) and so on.

So while you may have had a bad experience that has coloured your view of Canada, there are many people who haven't had a bad experience. I empathize with you, but if someone asked me about my experience, I certainly wouldn't say you can't get a job without "connections".

Anyway, if you wish to rant about Canada and tell everyone your personal story, you are entitled to do so.

I'm not going to attack you, but your experience is your own, just like my experience is my own. I don't expect every immigrant to easily come to Canada and get a job with a large company, and neither do I expect every immigrant to work as an Uber driver or pizza delivery person.

 

[david1697]

In all fairness one should NOT need to have connections to land an entry level job, but in Canada it's impossible to get any job unless you know someone who can "fix it" for you.

This is the thing - you're making sweeping statements based on your personal experience as if this applies to every single immigrant.

It's simply not true. I speak from personal experience. I was able to get a job without any "connections" (I didn't know a single soul in Canada), and a very good job at that. How did I get it? By applying for it (directly on the company's website), interviewing for it, and getting it based on my prior work experience and qualifications. Which company? One of Amazon, Microsoft, Facebook, and Google. And no, I'm not a software developer/engineer, I work in a different field. I got the job within one month of moving here.

In my team at this company, there are 3 other Permanent Residents who got the job after they came here. Based on their experience and qualifications. I know dozens of other people with similar stories working in finance, marketing, law (this is special, they had to spend 18-24 months getting qualified here, but now they have great jobs) and so on.

So while you may have had a bad experience that has coloured your view of Canada, there are many people who haven't had a bad experience. I empathize with you, but if someone asked me about my experience, I certainly wouldn't say you can't get a job without "connections".

Anyway, if you wish to rant about Canada and tell everyone your personal story, you are entitled to do so.

I'm not going to attack you, but your experience is your own, just like my experience is my own. I don't expect every immigrant to easily come to Canada and get a job with a large company, and neither do I expect every immigrant to work as an Uber driver or pizza delivery person.

You know, some people have religious beliefs. No matter how rational and empirically based your argument is, they will deny it and believe in what they believe. Similarly, I guess, there are people with religious belief in Canada, belief that all is well there no matter what the harsh reality is.

As to the "truth" of if, I am a proverbial John Doe (obviously I was nothing but a name to Canadian employers when applying for a job), so having sent hundreds of resumes and not getting even a call for an interview(!) gives me a lot more accurate statistical information about odds of getting a job in Canada, than some random poster telling me how he and three of his PR friends applied and got high paying jobs in Google and Amazon within 30 days of landing in Canada.
To make things even worse, I was not applying alone, but my wife applied as well, and she is a high skilled professional with over a decade of experience in a demanding and competitive field (she is doing better than some of her American born friends with Master's degrees from prestigious American universities).
And she did NOT get even a call for an interview from Canadian employers. What do you say to that? And we both applying for ALL kinds of job, related to our field and just the entry/survival jobs. As I stated, we didn't receive as much as an invitation to an interview based on applications we sent. And employers didn't even have a chance to see us (if they did you could say we did something wrong, behaved wrong, made wrong impression), but they ignored us for some other reason. And when I heard from some Canadians , after a long time of unsusscessful job hubting, that you need to "network" to get an interview it struck me: in Canada they have third world country job market, where you need to have someone to "fix it" for you

Finally, nothing to me speaks louder than Indians telling each other to stay in India and away from Canada, if they want to maintain a decent life style and earning capacity (see the copy pasted post below). While it speaks volumes about improvement in Inidian economy since devastating early nineties, it also speaks volumes of devastation that has occurred in Canadian economy, so that both countries now are not even on par, but it's much better for an Indian to stay in India than come to Canada as PR.
P.S. Of course, all these people with good paying jobs and stable life styles in India are just a bunch of loosers who weren;'t smart enough to make it as your friends (sarcasm intended).

My advice, do not come to Canada, it's simply doesn't make any sense to come to Canada leaving a good job in India. If you have any issues or problems in your home country then it make's sense but from a country like India it does not make any sense.

I recently came here leaving a good job in India, I was bitten by Canadian and western life. I got a decent job here in Canada, but still I feel it's not worth it.
Reasons.

1. India has everything what you find here in Canada, the quality of life in India is equally good now. I thought the life will be different here, but it's
not lot of different.
2. The cost of living has gone up immensely in Canada, even if you make 100000 a year you will be probably saving less then you would have in
India. You can only dream of owning your own house here, with housing costs rocketing.
3. Canada is becoming more crowded, just like India. There are lot and lot of refugees and other people now here. The crime rate and everything
else is almost similar to India. The roads are bad in some areas and here even highways have traffic jams.
4. You will start to miss your family, life and friends back home...even if you want to you will not be able to move back because you would have
bid good bye's to everone and your pride prevents you from going back for some time.. If you are fields like IT, once you are here it will be
almost impossible to get a good job in India again for your experience.
5. Private and international schools in India are lot better then here, if you have kids do not leave the high quality of education back home, here the
education is free but standard is very less then India.

And if you do not get job, which is usually the case with new immigrants, you will be in tremendous misery. There are people who have left great jobs and came here and not finding a job went into depression bearing this cold climate.

My sincere advice, stay back in India if you have a govt job or a good job.... It's just not worth coming here. You can come here only if the conditions back home are bad and have no option, and from growing countries like India it's simply not worth it.

 

[david1697]

Here is the link where I've got the above post from:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/should-i-settle-in-canada-is-it-worth-it.393537/

 

[21Goose]

Fair enough. You weren't able to get a job in Canada. I'll believe that. Attacking me and everyone else on this forum isn't going to make your life better.

I'm going to go ahead and ignore you now. You can feel free to ignore me as well, or call me names or whatever it is that makes you feel better.

 

[david1697]

Fair enough. You weren't able to get a job in Canada. I'll believe that. Attacking me and everyone else on this forum isn't going to make your life better.

I'm going to go ahead and ignore you now. You can feel free to ignore me as well, or call me names or whatever it is that makes you feel better.

It's amazing how after making it a personal issue (telling me it was all about me being a loser unable to get a job ,and not the Canadian job market), I am also blamed for attacking you
Ok, ignore my posts future, this will be better for both of us. WIsh you all the best.

 

[mahi2020]

It's amazing that after making it a personal issue (telling me it was all about me being a loser unable to get a job and not Canadian job market), I am also blamed for attacking you
Ok, ignore me in future, this will be better for both of us. WIsh you all the best.

Dude but why do you want to immigrate to Canada from USA in the first place ?

Express Entry is mostly for third world citizens trying to escape their pathetic lives back home.

You have a pathetic life back-home I mean US as well ?

 

[david1697]

Dude but why do you want to immigrate to Canada from USA in the first place ?

Express Entry is mostly for third world citizens trying to escape their pathetic lives back home.

You have a pathetic life back-home I mean US as well ?

For few reasons, and I can cite three of them just off the top of my head:

1. Kids. I thought they would have greater opportunities in Canada, get superb college education in top universities while not getting under humongous debt/student loan. And , I thought, such a large country with relatively small population would mean less competition and greater chances for them to succeed in future.

2. More liberal country (not to confuse with LAWLESS and chaotic as term "liberal" is understood by our contemporaries). I am a conservative person in many respects and I vote Republican, so I enjoy personal liberty a lot. And I thought Canada would be more liberal and more secular (Americans are very religious, everyone goes to Church every Sunday, while I am an atheist), would be more European and more laid back, more relaxed country than the US, with less crime and violence (usually, less religious the country the less violent it is), with friendlier, happier people.

3. Universal healthcare (not to be confused with Obamacare!). Yeah, unlike my fellow-republicans I don't consider universal healthcare an evil manifestation of socialism. It's just one of the necessities of life, like access to free service by fire department and police. Healthcare cost is not an issue while you are young and your employer pays for your medical coverage, but things change as you age. I thought it would be safer to age in Canada than in the USA.

Needless to say, I was greatly disappointed. First, when I discovered how authority figures mistreat ordinary LAW-ABIDING Permanent Resident (something I can't fathom in the USA). Second, when I discovered how corrupt the job market in Canada is, practically it's like what you would expect from the Third World country.

Don't get me wrong, I liked ordinary Canadians a lot, it's the system and job market that sucks there and pushes newcomers out.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Getting defensive and resorting to ad hominem attacks expose vulnerability of your position. Why else shift the subject to my person? Perhaps you know what I say is true and how futile it would be to disprove my claims on their merit.

You continue to state your personal experience as an experience of all PRs when, as mentioned several times, the vast majority of PRs are able to get jobs in Canada and have no issues dealing with CBSA. It is not an ad hominem attack to say that when so many others have succeeded where you have not, that perhaps the issue lies with you. You have not cited any actual facts.

In all fairness one should NOT need to have connections to land an entry level job, but in Canada it's impossible to get any job unless you know someone who can "fix it" for you. Which begs the question: what is the difference between Canada and third world countries, where you also can land a job and make a living if you are well connected?

And once again, that is only your personal experience, not the experience of every PR.

The difference? Human rights, education, healthcare, infrastructure, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, economic stability etc. Canada is not perfect but no country is.

The articles you linked to are not applicable to what I was talking about. These "children" you read about in the news are illegally crossing the US border, and there is mounting evidence that many among them have criminal records and/or belong to notorious and very dangerous, violent street gangs. They are not children of law abiding US Permanent Residents. I didn't go to Canada as a member of violent street gang, I went there with zero criminal charges and convictions on my record and as Permanent Resident who had to go through multiple security checks to be granted PR visa.

You stated: "it's unconsionable for Border Patrol to be as rude and bullying". All of those links indicate otherwise. How about this one https://www.aclutx.org/en/cases/jane-doe-v-el-paso-hospital-district-et-al. That was to a US citizen. It was, by all accounts, object rape. Do you think that was acceptable behaviour of US CBP?

A 4 year old chose to illegally cross a border and is a criminal? Why did you put the word children in quotations? Do you believe all of the small people in those cages are actually criminal adults in disguise?

I am a human being and my experience counts jsut as anyone else's. Perhaps, when you discount someone's first hand experience (of abuse by border agents and corrupt job market designed to kick out newcomers) it shows how you truly feel about your fellow Canadians, as if they were a mere nuisance to you and not legal residents deserving basic respect and fair shot at job market (note: as the poster above enlighted us I am by definition and under Canadian laws a Canadian ,and not a foreigner or an alien, and will remain so for as long as I retain my PR status).

I didn't discount your experience. I simply highlighted that it was your experience and not representative of every PR. You had a difficult experience with CBSA; that doesn't mean every PR did. You had troubles getting a job; that does not make it a "corrupt job market".

Finally, I welcome you to come and browse US immigration forums, we have plenty of those. Try to find one where there is a separate subforum dedicated to RO and hundreds of posters asking how to get back to the US after a decade or so of absense. Most certainly we have people who lose PR status for variety of reasons (including for crimes of moral turpitude, felonies, drug trafficing, and even for not meeting residency obligation), but we don't have such a massive trend of newly immigrated US permanent residents leaving the country for years and then asking how to get back without detection. That's not some kind of a big issue here as it is in Canada, because people who are here with PR status don't have much of an insentive to go back to India, Bangladesh, Mexico or Nepal. Whereas, great many of Canadian PR's leave Canada for number of years, out of desperation and unable to fit in and get a job there. This is a serious problem that should above all concern people who love Canada and who believe themselves to be patriots of Canada.

You keep comparing Canada and the US. They are vastly different countries. As 21Goose highlighted in an above post, the US has more than 10 times the population and GDP of Canada, so of course the job market is different. Yes, it can be difficult for some to get a job in Canada. Yes, some PRs leave Canada. However, most don't.

 

[david1697]

You continue to state your personal experience as an experience of all PRs when, as mentioned several times, the vast majority of PRs are able to get jobs in Canada and have no issues dealing with CBSA. It is not an ad hominem attack to say that when so many others have succeeded where you have not, that perhaps the issue lies with you. You have not cited any actual facts.And once again, that is only your personal experience, not the experience of every PR.
The difference? Human rights, education, healthcare, infrastructure, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, economic stability etc. Canada is not perfect but no country is.
You stated: "it's unconsionable for Border Patrol to be as rude and bullying". All of those links indicate otherwise. How about this one https://www.aclutx.org/en/cases/jane-doe-v-el-paso-hospital-district-et-al. That was to a US citizen. It was, by all accounts, object rape. Do you think that was acceptable behaviour of US CBP?
A 4 year old chose to illegally cross a border and is a criminal? Why did you put the word children in quotations? Do you believe all of the small people in those cages are actually criminal adults in disguise?
I didn't discount your experience. I simply highlighted that it was your experience and not representative of every PR. You had a difficult experience with CBSA; that doesn't mean every PR did. You had troubles getting a job; that does not make it a "corrupt job market".
You keep comparing Canada and the US. They are vastly different countries. As 21Goose highlighted in an above post, the US has more than 10 times the population and GDP of Canada, so of course the job market is different. Yes, it can be difficult for some to get a job in Canada. Yes, some PRs leave Canada. However, most don't.

I already addressed every single one of your counter-arguments, starting with the fact that we are a family of first generation immigrants who became professionals in the highly competitive US job market (it is NOT easy to make a living in America), and kept employment even during the brutal downturn of Obama years.
Keep calling us losers and blame us for corrupt Canadian job market and abuse of power by your border agents, hopefully it makes you feel better.
I see no need to go over what I have already said so many times.

And here is a thread consisting of 13 pages, it looks like you have awful a lot of highly educated losers in Canada who tell others not to come to Canada (somehow we have a lot less of thesse sore stories in the US. Despite US not having a merit based immigration policy. And shall I mention Indian immigrants whom you see practicing medicine in every doctor's office here, and not driving taxi cabs with engeneer's or doctor's degree).
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/should-i-settle-in-canada-is-it-worth-it.393537/

 

[canuck_in_uk]

I already addressed every single one of your counter-arguments, starting with the fact that we are a family of first generation immigrants who became professionals in the highly competitive US job market (it is NOT easy to make a living in America), and kept employment even during the brutal downturn of Obama years.
Keep calling us losers and blame us for corrupt Canadian job market and abuse of power by your border agents, hopefully it makes you feel better.
I see no need to go over what I have already said so many times.

And here is a thread consisting of 13 pages, it looks like you have awful a lot of highly educated losers in Canada who tell others not to come to Canada (somehow we have a lot less of thesse sore stories in the US. Despite US not having a merit based immigration policy. And shall I mention Indian immigrants whom you see practicing medicine in every doctor's office here, and not driving taxi cabs with engeneer's or doctor's degree).
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/should-i-settle-in-canada-is-it-worth-it.393537/

The fact that you couldn't get a job in Canada but got one in the US doesn't make Canada's job market corrupt. You've stated several times in previous posts that it is easy to get a job and make a living in the US.

No one has called you a loser but you. I haven't blamed you for anything. I've simply said that perhaps your experiences are of your own making.

You are the one calling others losers.

You really should do a basic Google search before posting. Here are just a few results to counter your claim.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/08/09/health/refugee-doctors-medical-training/index.html?r=https://www.cnn.com/search?size=10&q=Us%20refugee%20doctors%20taxi

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/business/economy/long-slog-for-foreign-doctors-to-practice-in-us.html