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Re-entering Canada by US land border without PR card

mierl

Full Member
Jul 2, 2017
23
2
Hello everyone,

I will do my landing in Canada in early December. The problem is that soon after landing, my Common-Law Partner and I will visit my family in the US, before we have received PR cards. We have already bought tickets and made plans. It is the first time we will be back in North America after two years, so our family really want to see each other again.
I am American and my partner is Japanese. I know that we can re-enter Canada using a private vehicle with our COPR papers and Passports. I have two questions.

1) Can anyone give clarification on what Canada considers a private vehicle? We are planning to use a ride share, where we share the cost of gas with someone ( a stranger) in exchange for a seat in their (private) car. Does this count as a commercial carrier? Are hitch hiking, riding a bicycle, or walking across the border viable options?

2) Will we have any problems leaving Canada and entering the US using a commercial bus?

Thank you for your time.

Cheers,
Lewis
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
I will do my landing in Canada in early December. The problem is that soon after landing, my Common-Law Partner and I will visit my family in the US, before we have received PR cards. We have already bought tickets and made plans. It is the first time we will be back in North America after two years, so our family really want to see each other again.
I am American and my partner is Japanese. I know that we can re-enter Canada using a private vehicle with our COPR papers and Passports.
Yes. And this should be particularly routine for newly landed PRs.

I have two questions.

1) Can anyone give clarification on what Canada considers a private vehicle? We are planning to use a ride share, where we share the cost of gas with someone ( a stranger) in exchange for a seat in their (private) car. Does this count as a commercial carrier? Are hitch hiking, riding a bicycle, or walking across the border viable options?
If you can make such arrangements, a ride share crossing the border is OK.

Note: as an American citizen the rules requiring a PR to present either a PR card or PR Travel Document do NOT apply to you. An American passport should be enough to be allowed abroad commercial transportation to Canada.

For other Canadian PRs, the DIFFERENCE that matters is about being allowed to board the means of transportation headed to Canada. That is, the issue is what the PR needs to present to the TRANSPORTATION PROVIDER, the COMMERCIAL CARRIER.

For example, I do not have personal experience but some report that even some (not all) commercial buses might let a PR board a bus driving into Canada. There is a possibility the traveler may be separated from the bus at the PoE, due to additional screening, but this gets the traveler to Canada. (I am not sure how things go these days if a bus passenger needs Secondary screening at the PoE; some time ago, going the other way, into the States, I was the one person on a bus the U.S. officials subjected to a rather lengthy examination and unfortunately for the other passengers, they all had to wait for me to be cleared to enter the States, and yes that tended to make the rest of the trip unpleasant).

PRs are entitled to enter Canada. No particular documentation or mode of transportation is required. Like all travelers (including Canadian citizens) a PR must, of course, make an application to enter Canada, but that is accomplished by simply showing up at a PoE. Like all travelers (including Canadian citizens) the PR must submit to examination, but once the traveler is identified as a Canadian PR, that entitles the traveler to enter Canada (the traveler may still need to respond to further examination, such as regarding customs matters, or respond to questions about PR Residency Obligation compliance if it appears there is an issue, and so on . . . but once identified as a PR, the border officials are required to allow the person to enter Canada).

Observations here about using a land-crossing PoE to return to Canada are about what is PRACTICAL, the most common way in which a PR without a PR card and without a PR Travel Document can return to Canada. Technically the PR can fly to Canada, if the PR finds someone with a plane who will allow the PR abroad a flight to Canada (even commercial airlines have discretion to do this, even though they generally and probably almost always will NOT).

So basically you can ride with anyone who will let you ride with him or her, no matter what vehicle is used.

AND sure, there are numerous locations where pedestrians are allowed to cross the border (Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls is an easy, scenic, and relatively short walk from a location in Niagara Falls, N.Y. where public transportation will drop passengers off, leaving a short walk to the bridge and across to Niagara Falls, Ontario, where there is plenty of public transportation available). Bicycling is a mode of transportation I often used to cross the border (recreationally, typically crossing back later the same day) in the past. And if the owner and driver of a vehicle allow you to ride in the vehicle, you can ride it to the border crossing, and at the PoE you will be allowed to enter Canada.



2) Will we have any problems leaving Canada and entering the US using a commercial bus?
The respective bus company dictates what documentation travelers must have. My impression is that this varies. (Going both directions.)

Otherwise, a U.S. citizen presenting a valid U.S. passport will not encounter problems being approved to enter the U.S. Obviously customs matters are separate and depend on what the traveler is carrying and declares.

U.S. law otherwise governs the rules for non-U.S. citizens, and of course that depends in large part on what passport the traveler presents. I do not know what the U.S. rules are for persons carrying a Japanese passport.
 
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mierl

Full Member
Jul 2, 2017
23
2
Yes. And this should be particularly routine for newly landed PRs.



If you can make such arrangements, a ride share crossing the border is OK.

Note: as an American citizen the rules requiring a PR to present either a PR card or PR Travel Document do NOT apply to you. An American passport should be enough to be allowed abroad commercial transportation to Canada.

For other Canadian PRs, the DIFFERENCE that matters is about being allowed to board the means of transportation headed to Canada. That is, the issue is what the PR needs to present to the TRANSPORTATION PROVIDER, the COMMERCIAL CARRIER.

For example, I do not have personal experience but some report that even some (not all) commercial buses might let a PR board a bus driving into Canada. There is a possibility the traveler may be separated from the bus at the PoE, due to additional screening, but this gets the traveler to Canada. (I am not sure how things go these days if a bus passenger needs Secondary screening at the PoE; some time ago, going the other way, into the States, I was the one person on a bus the U.S. officials subjected to a rather lengthy examination and unfortunately for the other passengers, they all had to wait for me to be cleared to enter the States, and yes that tended to make the rest of the trip unpleasant).

PRs are entitled to enter Canada. No particular documentation or mode of transportation is required. Like all travelers (including Canadian citizens) a PR must, of course, make an application to enter Canada, but that is accomplished by simply showing up at a PoE. Like all travelers (including Canadian citizens) the PR must submit to examination, but once the traveler is identified as a Canadian PR, that entitles the traveler to enter Canada (the traveler may still need to respond to further examination, such as regarding customs matters, or respond to questions about PR Residency Obligation compliance if it appears there is an issue, and so on . . . but once identified as a PR, the border officials are required to allow the person to enter Canada).

Observations here about using a land-crossing PoE to return to Canada are about what is PRACTICAL, the most common way in which a PR without a PR card and without a PR Travel Document can return to Canada. Technically the PR can fly to Canada, if the PR finds someone with a plane who will allow the PR abroad a flight to Canada (even commercial airlines have discretion to do this, even though they generally and probably almost always will NOT).

So basically you can ride with anyone who will let you ride with him or her, no matter what vehicle is used.

AND sure, there are numerous locations where pedestrians are allowed to cross the border (Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls is an easy, scenic, and relatively short walk from a location in Niagara Falls, N.Y. where public transportation will drop passengers off, leaving a short walk to the bridge and across to Niagara Falls, Ontario, where there is plenty of public transportation available). Bicycling is a mode of transportation I often used to cross the border (recreationally, typically crossing back later the same day) in the past. And if the owner and driver of a vehicle allow you to ride in the vehicle, you can ride it to the border crossing, and at the PoE you will be allowed to enter Canada.





The respective bus company dictates what documentation travelers must have. My impression is that this varies. (Going both directions.)

Otherwise, a U.S. citizen presenting a valid U.S. passport will not encounter problems being approved to enter the U.S. Obviously customs matters are separate and depend on what the traveler is carrying and declares.

U.S. law otherwise governs the rules for non-U.S. citizens, and of course that depends in large part on what passport the traveler presents. I do not know what the U.S. rules are for persons carrying a Japanese passport.

Thank you so much, dpenabill, this helps a lot!

So basically, as long as we are able to get to the PoE and prove to Canadian border officers that we are PRs, we can enter. The issue is with whether commercial carriers, whether bus or plane, will let us board the vehicle going to Canada.
To enter Canada to do our landing (to become PRs), my partner had to apply for an ETA, which is valid for 5 years as long as the passport doesn't expire. Is it possible that she can show the bus company her ETA, or that the ETA will still be on file, so that she can take a commercial bus?

If we are to cross into Canada using a commercial bus, will this cause problems for us with the Canadian government? Their website isn't especially clear, but it seems to warn that the commercial carrier might not let us board the bus to enter Canada, but it doesn't say if the Border Officers will have a problem with it. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=064&top=10


As for crossing into the US from Canada, as long as we have the proper documents to enter the US (ESTA), what concern would the US have on if we are Canadian PRs or not?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,935
22,176
Toronto
Category........
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28-06-2010
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01-10-2010
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05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hello everyone,

I will do my landing in Canada in early December. The problem is that soon after landing, my Common-Law Partner and I will visit my family in the US, before we have received PR cards. We have already bought tickets and made plans. It is the first time we will be back in North America after two years, so our family really want to see each other again.
I am American and my partner is Japanese. I know that we can re-enter Canada using a private vehicle with our COPR papers and Passports. I have two questions.

1) Can anyone give clarification on what Canada considers a private vehicle? We are planning to use a ride share, where we share the cost of gas with someone ( a stranger) in exchange for a seat in their (private) car. Does this count as a commercial carrier? Are hitch hiking, riding a bicycle, or walking across the border viable options?

2) Will we have any problems leaving Canada and entering the US using a commercial bus?

Thank you for your time.

Cheers,
Lewis
I am a huge ride-share fan but I would personally never ride-share across the border (although nothing is stopping you from doing so). You don't know that individual. If they happen to have something in their car or a history that's a problem for CBSA - that could become a problem for you as passengers as well (especially if something is found in their car). Sure they chances are small - but too risky for me. Once you have an issue at the border, it's effectively on your record forever. I would find another way.
 
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mierl

Full Member
Jul 2, 2017
23
2
I am a huge ride-share fan but I would personally never ride-share across the border (although nothing is stopping you from doing so). You don't know that individual. If they happen to have something in their car or a history that's a problem for CBSA - that could become a problem for you as passengers as well (especially if something is found in their car). Sure they chances are small - but too risky for me. Once you have an issue at the border, it's effectively on your record forever. I would find another way.
Yeah I agree it is taking a risk. Also few drivers want to take fellow strangers across the border. I would rather not do it but I don't have my own private vehicle.

Its quite difficult and risky so now my plan is this: try to take a bus from Seattle to Vancouver. If the bus company refuses to take us across the border, we will ask to get off just before the border and walk across the Peach Arch border crossing. Other people seen to have done this before without issue.

https://amp.reddit.com/r/Bellingham/comments/85y6bz/bellingham_to_vancouver_boarder_crossing_on_foot/

On the other side there are transport options to get to Vancouver.

Do you think there will be any issues doing this?
 

andy1011

Star Member
Apr 23, 2017
71
23
Yes. And this should be particularly routine for newly landed PRs.



If you can make such arrangements, a ride share crossing the border is OK.

Note: as an American citizen the rules requiring a PR to present either a PR card or PR Travel Document do NOT apply to you. An American passport should be enough to be allowed abroad commercial transportation to Canada.

For other Canadian PRs, the DIFFERENCE that matters is about being allowed to board the means of transportation headed to Canada. That is, the issue is what the PR needs to present to the TRANSPORTATION PROVIDER, the COMMERCIAL CARRIER.

For example, I do not have personal experience but some report that even some (not all) commercial buses might let a PR board a bus driving into Canada. There is a possibility the traveler may be separated from the bus at the PoE, due to additional screening, but this gets the traveler to Canada. (I am not sure how things go these days if a bus passenger needs Secondary screening at the PoE; some time ago, going the other way, into the States, I was the one person on a bus the U.S. officials subjected to a rather lengthy examination and unfortunately for the other passengers, they all had to wait for me to be cleared to enter the States, and yes that tended to make the rest of the trip unpleasant).

PRs are entitled to enter Canada. No particular documentation or mode of transportation is required. Like all travelers (including Canadian citizens) a PR must, of course, make an application to enter Canada, but that is accomplished by simply showing up at a PoE. Like all travelers (including Canadian citizens) the PR must submit to examination, but once the traveler is identified as a Canadian PR, that entitles the traveler to enter Canada (the traveler may still need to respond to further examination, such as regarding customs matters, or respond to questions about PR Residency Obligation compliance if it appears there is an issue, and so on . . . but once identified as a PR, the border officials are required to allow the person to enter Canada).

Observations here about using a land-crossing PoE to return to Canada are about what is PRACTICAL, the most common way in which a PR without a PR card and without a PR Travel Document can return to Canada. Technically the PR can fly to Canada, if the PR finds someone with a plane who will allow the PR abroad a flight to Canada (even commercial airlines have discretion to do this, even though they generally and probably almost always will NOT).

So basically you can ride with anyone who will let you ride with him or her, no matter what vehicle is used.

AND sure, there are numerous locations where pedestrians are allowed to cross the border (Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls is an easy, scenic, and relatively short walk from a location in Niagara Falls, N.Y. where public transportation will drop passengers off, leaving a short walk to the bridge and across to Niagara Falls, Ontario, where there is plenty of public transportation available). Bicycling is a mode of transportation I often used to cross the border (recreationally, typically crossing back later the same day) in the past. And if the owner and driver of a vehicle allow you to ride in the vehicle, you can ride it to the border crossing, and at the PoE you will be allowed to enter Canada.





The respective bus company dictates what documentation travelers must have. My impression is that this varies. (Going both directions.)

Otherwise, a U.S. citizen presenting a valid U.S. passport will not encounter problems being approved to enter the U.S. Obviously customs matters are separate and depend on what the traveler is carrying and declares.

U.S. law otherwise governs the rules for non-U.S. citizens, and of course that depends in large part on what passport the traveler presents. I do not know what the U.S. rules are for persons carrying a Japanese passport.

Hi Dpenabill,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm in the same situation. I have been waiting for my PR card for so long and I need to go back to Canada, i'm in the US now. I plan to rent a car (Alamo) in Seattle and drive through the border with my COPR and passport and return the car in Alamo office in canada, would that be any issue? I'm not sure if a rental car is considered a commercial vehicle or not.
 

andy1011

Star Member
Apr 23, 2017
71
23
Hello everyone,

I will do my landing in Canada in early December. The problem is that soon after landing, my Common-Law Partner and I will visit my family in the US, before we have received PR cards. We have already bought tickets and made plans. It is the first time we will be back in North America after two years, so our family really want to see each other again.
I am American and my partner is Japanese. I know that we can re-enter Canada using a private vehicle with our COPR papers and Passports. I have two questions.

1) Can anyone give clarification on what Canada considers a private vehicle? We are planning to use a ride share, where we share the cost of gas with someone ( a stranger) in exchange for a seat in their (private) car. Does this count as a commercial carrier? Are hitch hiking, riding a bicycle, or walking across the border viable options?

2) Will we have any problems leaving Canada and entering the US using a commercial bus?

Thank you for your time.

Cheers,
Lewis
Hello Lewis,

Thanks for the feedback. Did you guys end up getting back to Canada through land border with your COPR and passport smoothly? The ride share works out?
I'm in the same situation. I have been waiting for my PR card for so long and I need to go back to Canada, i'm in the US now. I plan to rent a car (Alamo) in Seattle and drive through the border with my COPR and passport and return the car in Alamo office in canada, would that be any issue? I'm not sure if a rental car is considered a commercial vehicle or not.
 

andy1011

Star Member
Apr 23, 2017
71
23
I am a huge ride-share fan but I would personally never ride-share across the border (although nothing is stopping you from doing so). You don't know that individual. If they happen to have something in their car or a history that's a problem for CBSA - that could become a problem for you as passengers as well (especially if something is found in their car). Sure they chances are small - but too risky for me. Once you have an issue at the border, it's effectively on your record forever. I would find another way.

Hello there,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm in the same situation. I have been waiting for my PR card for so long and I need to go back to Canada, i'm in the US now. I plan to rent a car (Alamo) in Seattle and drive through the border with my COPR and passport and return the car in Alamo office in canada, would that be any issue? I'm not sure if a rental car is considered a commercial vehicle or not.
 

mierl

Full Member
Jul 2, 2017
23
2
Hey, I just got back from the US no problem.
When we did our landing, we asked the Immigration officer if we would have any problems reentering. He looked at our passports (US and Japan) and said there would be no problem because we don't require visas.
We crossed from Seattle to Vancouver via Boltbus. They just looked at our passports and verified our identity just before getting on. When we crossed the border into Canada it was literally the fastest crossing of my life, 5 seconds. They didn't even look at our COPRs, they just asked if we brought anything from the US.
So I guess if you're passport doesn't require visas there shouldn't be a problem. The issue would be with the company
 

mierl

Full Member
Jul 2, 2017
23
2
Hello there,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm in the same situation. I have been waiting for my PR card for so long and I need to go back to Canada, i'm in the US now. I plan to rent a car (Alamo) in Seattle and drive through the border with my COPR and passport and return the car in Alamo office in canada, would that be any issue? I'm not sure if a rental car is considered a commercial vehicle or not.

Hey, I just got back from the US no problem.
When we did our landing, we asked the Immigration officer if we would have any problems reentering. He looked at our passports (US and Japan) and said there would be no problem because we don't require visas.
We crossed from Seattle to Vancouver via Boltbus. They just looked at our passports and verified our identity just before getting on. When we crossed the border into Canada it was literally the fastest crossing of my life, 5 seconds. They didn't even look at our COPRs, they just asked if we brought anything from the US.
So I guess if you're passport doesn't require visas there shouldn't be a problem. The issue would be with the company
 
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andy1011

Star Member
Apr 23, 2017
71
23
Hey, I just got back from the US no problem.
When we did our landing, we asked the Immigration officer if we would have any problems reentering. He looked at our passports (US and Japan) and said there would be no problem because we don't require visas.
We crossed from Seattle to Vancouver via Boltbus. They just looked at our passports and verified our identity just before getting on. When we crossed the border into Canada it was literally the fastest crossing of my life, 5 seconds. They didn't even look at our COPRs, they just asked if we brought anything from the US.
So I guess if you're passport doesn't require visas there shouldn't be a problem. The issue would be with the company
Thanks for the feedback!
 

Geet_6608

Newbie
Jul 21, 2019
4
0
Hello all,

I am an Indian National , got my PR in July and will be landing in Toronto on 28th July. I also have a valid Visitor Visa of Canada till 2023. I have few questions-
1) on Landing will my Visitor Visa be cancelled?
2) I have to go to US for multiple times in August ( 5th August for one day, then 10th August , then 19th August for 1 week) and return back, as I will not be having PR Card , can I re enter Canada by Passport & COPR.

Thanks
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,682
13,552
Hello all,

I am an Indian National , got my PR in July and will be landing in Toronto on 28th July. I also have a valid Visitor Visa of Canada till 2023. I have few questions-
1) on Landing will my Visitor Visa be cancelled?
2) I have to go to US for multiple times in August ( 5th August for one day, then 10th August , then 19th August for 1 week) and return back, as I will not be having PR Card , can I re enter Canada by Passport & COPR.

Thanks
1. Yes but sometimes it takes a bit longer.
2. You can only enter via land border with COPR. Would suggest you not land until you are done your US travelling. You can use your TRV until then.
 

gta88

Hero Member
Jun 30, 2018
575
40
@dpenabill @scylla
Hi ,
Can a person with EXPIRED PR CARD re-enter Canada through a land border in a private vehicle/rental car/on foot provided he/she has his/her COPR with him?
Couldn't find anything about this on the CIC website.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
@dpenabill @scylla
Hi ,
Can a person with EXPIRED PR CARD re-enter Canada through a land border in a private vehicle/rental car/on foot provided he/she has his/her COPR with him?
Couldn't find anything about this on the CIC website.
A Canadian PR (valid PR of course) will be allowed to enter Canada at a PoE into Canada upon establishing identity and PR status. Passport plus any additional documents tending to show the traveler is a PR should suffice. Expired PR card is one of the better documents to present.

Of course a PR who has not complied with the PR Residency Obligation may be examined, Reported, and issued a Departure Order. But must still be allowed to enter Canada. (Departure Order is NOT enforceable for 30 days, or if an appeal is timely made not until there is a final disposition of the appeal.)

It does not matter how the PR traveled to the PoE. But, of course, unlike certain members of the Gaddafi family who had private jets to bring them to Canada, the only practical way for a PR to travel to a Canadian PoE without a valid PR card or PR Travel Document, is to utilize private land transportation to reach and cross the U.S./Canada border.