Changing Noc for a work permit

[kgrajiv]

Folks,

Is there a possibility of changing NOC after getting a work permit approval?

My title mandates 00 , however while filing it was indicated as NOC 0. Wanted to check if this is possible? If yes, any guidance would be highly appreciated.

FYI, I am already in Canada and started working

Thanks.

 

[21Goose]

The job title doesn't "mandate" anything. It's your actual job duties that determine the NOC code.

 

[kgrajiv]

The job title doesn't "mandate" anything. It's your actual job duties that determine the NOC code.

I understand. The job duties pretty much remains in my case. I am working as handling a whole responsible for driving the technical sales for Canada for a reputed company. Would not qualify for a 00. Job duties remain same, its just that this is one of the role which is slightly lower for a big corporation. For e.g someone who is a HR head for Canada may have a internal title which may not get a VP-HR title internally for a big organization which is > 10 Bil. USD company. Mine is something similar role, did not realize that NOC 00 makes such big difference for PR filing, hence wanted to see if we can amend the PR

 

[21Goose]

I understand. The job duties pretty much remains in my case. I am working as handling a whole responsible for driving the technical sales for Canada for a reputed company. Would not qualify for a 00. Job duties remain same, its just that this is one of the role which is slightly lower for a big corporation. For e.g someone who is a HR head for Canada may have a internal title which may not get a VP-HR title internally for a big organization which is > 10 Bil. USD company. Mine is something similar role, did not realize that NOC 00 makes such big difference for PR filing, hence wanted to see if we can amend the PR

I don't understand - you're saying that your job duties will NOT qualify you for a NOC 00 role? or you feel that your job actually is a NOC 00 role?

Do you meet this criteria?

Senior managers in this unit group are usually appointed by a board of directors, to which they report. They work either alone or in conjunction with the board of directors to develop and establish objectives for the company, and to develop or approve policies and programs.


Do you report to the board of directors of your company? Are you part of the executive team (C-level or one level below C-level)? Most senior managers are NOC 0 level, NOC 00 is really the top execs.

If you are at that level, then you should talk to your legal team about this.

When it comes time to submit your PR application, you can choose the correct NOC if you can substantiate it with proof. A NOC 00 job will require a high degree of proof since it grants 200 points.

Who decided to file a work permit under NOC 0 for you?

 

[kgrajiv]

I don't understand - you're saying that your job duties will NOT qualify you for a NOC 00 role? or you feel that your job actually is a NOC 00 role?

Do you meet this criteria?

Senior managers in this unit group are usually appointed by a board of directors, to which they report. They work either alone or in conjunction with the board of directors to develop and establish objectives for the company, and to develop or approve policies and programs.


Do you report to the board of directors of your company? Are you part of the executive team (C-level or one level below C-level)? Most senior managers are NOC 0 level, NOC 00 is really the top execs.

If you are at that level, then you should talk to your legal team about this.

When it comes time to submit your PR application, you can choose the correct NOC if you can substantiate it with proof. A NOC 00 job will require a high degree of proof since it grants 200 points.

Who decided to file a work permit under NOC 0 for you?

Thanks for the detail note. Looks like the definition of yours seems slightly different then what I am checking on the website. http://noc.esdc.gc.ca/English/noc/Profile.aspx?val=0&val1=0015&ver=16

This is the definition as per this Gov website for 0015

Main duties
Senior managers in this unit group perform some or all of the following duties:

• Establish objectives for the company and formulate or approve policies and programs
• Authorize and organize the establishment of major departments and associated senior staff positions
• Allocate material, human and financial resources to implement organizational policies and programs; establish financial and administrative controls; formulate and approve promotional campaigns; and approve overall personnel planning
• Select middle managers, directors or other executive staff
• Co-ordinate the work of regions, divisions or departments
• Represent the company, or delegate representatives to act on behalf of the company, in negotiations or other official functions.

• Senior managers in this unit group may specialize in areas such as finance, marketing or human resources or in the sale of a particular product or provision of a particular service.

I do the job duties as per highlighted role. I mean I drive sales of a particular services for Canada region for an organization based out of US.

I think while working may be our organization might have filed at NOC 0 for easier approval, however if there is a provision available I will work with my organization team to change it. I wanted to check if it is possible or not. I can imagine that this role needs to be justified and needs additional reference and documentation, which I have to ask my immigration team to do as we pay service fee for them. This is critical for my movement within the region.

Thanks, let me know if this is possible and if yes, any leads on process and timeline would be appreciated.

 

[21Goose]

Thanks for the detail note. Looks like the definition of yours seems slightly different then what I am checking on the website. http://noc.esdc.gc.ca/English/noc/Profile.aspx?val=0&val1=0015&ver=16

This is the definition as per this Gov website for 0015

Main duties
Senior managers in this unit group perform some or all of the following duties:

• Establish objectives for the company and formulate or approve policies and programs
• Authorize and organize the establishment of major departments and associated senior staff positions
• Allocate material, human and financial resources to implement organizational policies and programs; establish financial and administrative controls; formulate and approve promotional campaigns; and approve overall personnel planning
• Select middle managers, directors or other executive staff
• Co-ordinate the work of regions, divisions or departments
• Represent the company, or delegate representatives to act on behalf of the company, in negotiations or other official functions.

• Senior managers in this unit group may specialize in areas such as finance, marketing or human resources or in the sale of a particular product or provision of a particular service.

I do the job duties as per highlighted role. I mean I drive sales of a particular services for Canada region for an organization based out of US.

I think while working may be our organization might have filed at NOC 0 for easier approval, however if there is a provision available I will work with my organization team to change it. I wanted to check if it is possible or not. I can imagine that this role needs to be justified and needs additional reference and documentation, which I have to ask my immigration team to do as we pay service fee for them. This is critical for my movement within the region.

Thanks, let me know if this is possible and if yes, any leads on process and timeline would be appreciated.

It's not enough to pick just one of the duties - you have to match the majority of them. The statement I quoted is the lead statement for NOC 0015. It's not mandatory to meet that requirement, but if you did meet it you would obviously be NOC 00. Do you meet all/a majority of the job requirements?

Driving sales for the Canada region may or may not qualify you under NOC 00 depending on how your company is structured and your level of seniority. Your legal/immigration team should be the right people to answer this question. It's usually really easy to tell whether or not you're at the senior exec level at a given company.

Are you ready to file for your PR? If you are applying for the PR, you can simply choose NOC 0015 as your NOC code and provide the necessary documentation to substantiate that choice. You don't need to amend your work permit.

Talk to your lawyers and see what they say.

 

[kgrajiv]

It's not enough to pick just one of the duties - you have to match the majority of them. The statement I quoted is the lead statement for NOC 0015. It's not mandatory to meet that requirement, but if you did meet it you would obviously be NOC 00. Do you meet all/a majority of the job requirements?

Driving sales for the Canada region may or may not qualify you under NOC 00 depending on how your company is structured and your level of seniority. Your legal/immigration team should be the right people to answer this question. It's usually really easy to tell whether or not you're at the senior exec level at a given company.

Are you ready to file for your PR? If you are applying for the PR, you can simply choose NOC 0015 as your NOC code and provide the necessary documentation to substantiate that choice. You don't need to amend your work permit.

Talk to your lawyers and see what they say.

Thanks for the detail explaination and I do understand that couple of points from this list may not substantiate the role, however I have to put sufficient credentials and positioning the role to move to 0015 role. Considering our organization is big, obviously it is not an Exec level role for my company in global organization. However, if we consider the Canada subsidiary, this is an exec role and I have to substantiate with additional supporting documentation.

I do need some guidance to file on NOC 0015, not sure where to look for what additional supporting documentation required from my company. My organization have indicated that their lawyers typically don't work on filing PR in Canada, I may have to do it myself and need some guidance. That was one of the reason why I started with this question of NOC.

 

[21Goose]

Thanks for the detail explaination and I do understand that couple of points from this list may not substantiate the role, however I have to put sufficient credentials and positioning the role to move to 0015 role. Considering our organization is big, obviously it is not an Exec level role for my company in global organization. However, if we consider the Canada subsidiary, this is an exec role and I have to substantiate with additional supporting documentation.

I do need some guidance to file on NOC 0015, not sure where to look for what additional supporting documentation required from my company. My organization have indicated that their lawyers typically don't work on filing PR in Canada, I may have to do it myself and need some guidance. That was one of the reason why I started with this question of NOC.

The documentation would start with a letter from your company proving (in detail, where necessary) that you meet these criteria:

• Establish objectives for the company and formulate or approve policies and programs
• Authorize and organize the establishment of major departments and associated senior staff positions
• Allocate material, human and financial resources to implement organizational policies and programs; establish financial and administrative controls; formulate and approve promotional campaigns; and approve overall personnel planning
• Select middle managers, directors or other executive staff
• Co-ordinate the work of regions, divisions or departments
• Represent the company, or delegate representatives to act on behalf of the company, in negotiations or other official functions.

If you own a P/L or a LoB, add that to the letter. Or perhaps you control a million $+ budget.. basically all the things that will prove you are not just a middle manager but are much more senior.

Additional supporting documentation might be things like a copy of your Org. chart showing your direct/indirect reports, your pay statements for the past three months, potentially a letter from the CEO of your Canadian division stating that you are in fact a Senior Exec. in the Canadian org. All of this can be attached to one document.

I'd recommend you get some professional help as well. Even if your company lawyers aren't helping, you can go to your own immigration lawyer/consultant. They can help you craft a really strong application, and give you examples of successful applications they may have filed in the past.

It's nothing that onerous, but since you get 200 points for this, IRCC is wont to examine a NOC 00 application somewhat carefully to make sure you actually do qualify.

I'm assuming you are in no rush - take your time to put this together, or get some good professional help.

 

[kgrajiv]

The documentation would start with a letter from your company proving (in detail, where necessary) that you meet these criteria:

• Establish objectives for the company and formulate or approve policies and programs
• Authorize and organize the establishment of major departments and associated senior staff positions
• Allocate material, human and financial resources to implement organizational policies and programs; establish financial and administrative controls; formulate and approve promotional campaigns; and approve overall personnel planning
• Select middle managers, directors or other executive staff
• Co-ordinate the work of regions, divisions or departments
• Represent the company, or delegate representatives to act on behalf of the company, in negotiations or other official functions.

If you own a P/L or a LoB, add that to the letter. Or perhaps you control a million $+ budget.. basically all the things that will prove you are not just a middle manager but are much more senior.

Additional supporting documentation might be things like a copy of your Org. chart showing your direct/indirect reports, your pay statements for the past three months, potentially a letter from the CEO of your Canadian division stating that you are in fact a Senior Exec. in the Canadian org. All of this can be attached to one document.

I'd recommend you get some professional help as well. Even if your company lawyers aren't helping, you can go to your own immigration lawyer/consultant. They can help you craft a really strong application, and give you examples of successful applications they may have filed in the past.

It's nothing that onerous, but since you get 200 points for this, IRCC is wont to examine a NOC 00 application somewhat carefully to make sure you actually do qualify.

I'm assuming you are in no rush - take your time to put this together, or get some good professional help.

Sorry for the delayed response.

Yes, I see I have to provide substantial credentials as well as the the official documentation driving as a business unit head which covers owning up a P&L and quite a few million $ budget including operations, hiring and managing set of managers.

I would take time to put together all these documentation and probably do not rush as you suggested in order to keep all the papers in order to ensure that approval process is smooth.

As for as filing the document goes, I can wait for few more months to ensure it is proper submissions.

Thanks a lot for your valuable guidance. If I need any additional opinion, I will reach out to you.

 

[AishKrish]

My husband is a BCOM graduate with CA inter qualification with 5 years of experience at auditors office and corporate. But he quit his field couple of years back to study French and is now working as a secondary school teacher teaching French with around 1.5 years experience. He has changed his field and now applying for FSW with NOC 4031 for secondary school teachers. But he does not have a degree in French (as mentioned in the eligibility requirements of NOC website) but still eligible to teach in a school here with B1 certificate from Alliance Francaise. He will however apply as secondary applicant only. Could any one let me know which code should he use as he intends to be in the teaching career even after migration. We are confused if he should go with accounting code or teaching code