PR Renewal - Cutting Close to RO

[arnoldlev]

Hi all,

I'm now residing in Canada and intend to do so.
I became permanent resident in July 31, 2014, but didn't reside in Canada fully until January 2018 last year.
I am cutting it close to meet RO & I have a travel plan as my brother is getting married in December.
Roundtrip ticket has been booked, flying out out on November 25, 2019 & return on Dec 31st, 2019.

The followings are my days in Canada:
31-Jul-14 to 31-Aug-14 32days
10-Jul-15 to 04-Aug-15 26days
31-May-16 to 15-Jun-16 16days
14-Dec-16 to 23-Dec-16 10days
07-Mar-17 to 29-Mar-17 23days
07-Jun-17 to 01-Aug-17 56days
26-Sep-17 to 01-Oct-17 6days
21-Jan-18 to 19-Apr-18 89days
23-Apr-18 to 07-May-18 15days
18-May-18 to 20-Oct-18 156days
25-Oct-18 to CURRENT

If I renew my card on 31 Jul 2019 - RO=708 days
If I renew my card between 31 July 2019 - 21 Sept 2019 - RO=708 days still (because of the last 5 year rule)
If I renew my card on 22 Sept 2019 - RO=730 days
Are these above assumption/ calculation correct?

As I mentioned previously, I now reside in Canada, own a home, and have a full-time job here in Canada.
My question: When should I apply for the renewal (& the best chance to get the card before my travel date)?

Should I apply right on Sept 22, 2019 (exactly 730days) ?
or
Should I just apply right away on July 31, 2019 (not meeting RO, only 708 days - but knowing I'm Canada, have a job, etc.)?

What are my chances?
Are there any other option?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Arnold

 

[dpenabill]

It is apparent you know the rules and how they apply to your situation. You know your particular facts.

This is not an appropriate venue for obtaining detailed personal advice. Some here may be willing to offer such advice but doing that evidences their unreliability.

Beyond that, that said, it is difficult to forecast or predict how much influence WHEN you make the PR card application will have. The various factors which can influence how it goes have been discussed in depth in many topics here. And they are largely obvious to anyone who is familiar with the rules and how they apply to particular fact patterns . . . like cutting-it-close.

The pattern you describe has some fairly positive elements, like the regular or periodic periods of time in Canada, and suggests you probably have other positive factors related to ties in Canada. But until last year the pattern also has some negative implications, suggesting a life centered abroad rather than in Canada.

Regardless which approach you take, there is some RISK you will NOT be able to obtain a new PR card in time for your scheduled trip. You can still travel and, depending on where you will be, you may be able to apply for and obtain a PR Travel Document to facilitate the return trip to Canada . . . or, if you have status allowing you to travel via the U.S., you could rearrange travel so that you can enter Canada at a land crossing from the U.S.

Also note that PR card application processing times tend to vary from time to time, including during a given year. Then there is a Federal election approaching this fall; while there is no obvious reason why this should affect processing times, historically it has.

Many here would probably emphasize NOT making the application until you are fully in compliance with the Residency Obligation. My sense is that there is some wiggle room in this regard, but that is in significant part based on continuing to get credit for days in Canada after the application is made (at least until there is a formal RO examination and as long as there is no decision to issue a Departure or Removal Order) . . . but in your situation come the end of July, until the end of August, you do not gain any days credit (as you acknowledge, given days five years old fall out of the calculation).

Given how close you are and the fact of now being settled in Canada, odds of a favourable H&C decision may obviate the risks of applying early . . . but that would be a gamble and, so far as the sparse reporting goes, those kinds of cases appear to involve non-routine processing and thus take significantly longer than routinely processed PRC applications.

Basically you have painted yourself into a bit of a corner. Risk of losing PR status appears to not be too serious, but there is some risk of that looming. There is a significantly higher risk of having to deal with a lengthy PRC application process, and thus having to deal with obtaining a PR Travel Document while abroad if you proceed to take the trip.

Circumstances can change some in the coming months, so you will probably want to monitor news and trends and not make firm decisions until you really need to make them.

Hi all,

I'm now residing in Canada and intend to do so.
I became permanent resident in July 31, 2014, but didn't reside in Canada fully until January 2018 last year.
I am cutting it close to meet RO & I have a travel plan as my brother is getting married in December.
Roundtrip ticket has been booked, flying out out on November 25, 2019 & return on Dec 31st, 2019.

The followings are my days in Canada:
31-Jul-14 to 31-Aug-14 32days
10-Jul-15 to 04-Aug-15 26days
31-May-16 to 15-Jun-16 16days
14-Dec-16 to 23-Dec-16 10days
07-Mar-17 to 29-Mar-17 23days
07-Jun-17 to 01-Aug-17 56days
26-Sep-17 to 01-Oct-17 6days
21-Jan-18 to 19-Apr-18 89days
23-Apr-18 to 07-May-18 15days
18-May-18 to 20-Oct-18 156days
25-Oct-18 to CURRENT

If I renew my card on 31 Jul 2019 - RO=708 days
If I renew my card between 31 July 2019 - 21 Sept 2019 - RO=708 days still (because of the last 5 year rule)
If I renew my card on 22 Sept 2019 - RO=730 days
Are these above assumption/ calculation correct?

As I mentioned previously, I now reside in Canada, own a home, and have a full-time job here in Canada.
My question: When should I apply for the renewal (& the best chance to get the card before my travel date)?

Should I apply right on Sept 22, 2019 (exactly 730days) ?
or
Should I just apply right away on July 31, 2019 (not meeting RO, only 708 days - but knowing I'm Canada, have a job, etc.)?

What are my chances?
Are there any other option?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Arnold

 

[joss]

Hi all,
My PR card was expired in 2017. Both me and my wife came to Canada in May 2017. We were not reported. Now I have completed 750 days and my wife completed 735 days. We never travelled outside Canada in these two years. In 2017 we sponsered our son who is 5 years old . Then we got residency obligation questionnaire. It was replied back with valid reasons and PR was issued to our son. Now my question is . Does it make any difference if we both me and wife apply separately. I need to travel in June .is it ok to send employment letter and tax documents for the past two years as proof of residency to avoid delay in PR process.

Highly appreciate quick response..

 

[canuck78]

Hi all,

I'm now residing in Canada and intend to do so.
I became permanent resident in July 31, 2014, but didn't reside in Canada fully until January 2018 last year.
I am cutting it close to meet RO & I have a travel plan as my brother is getting married in December.
Roundtrip ticket has been booked, flying out out on November 25, 2019 & return on Dec 31st, 2019.

The followings are my days in Canada:
31-Jul-14 to 31-Aug-14 32days
10-Jul-15 to 04-Aug-15 26days
31-May-16 to 15-Jun-16 16days
14-Dec-16 to 23-Dec-16 10days
07-Mar-17 to 29-Mar-17 23days
07-Jun-17 to 01-Aug-17 56days
26-Sep-17 to 01-Oct-17 6days
21-Jan-18 to 19-Apr-18 89days
23-Apr-18 to 07-May-18 15days
18-May-18 to 20-Oct-18 156days
25-Oct-18 to CURRENT

If I renew my card on 31 Jul 2019 - RO=708 days
If I renew my card between 31 July 2019 - 21 Sept 2019 - RO=708 days still (because of the last 5 year rule)
If I renew my card on 22 Sept 2019 - RO=730 days
Are these above assumption/ calculation correct?

As I mentioned previously, I now reside in Canada, own a home, and have a full-time job here in Canada.
My question: When should I apply for the renewal (& the best chance to get the card before my travel date)?

Should I apply right on Sept 22, 2019 (exactly 730days) ?
or
Should I just apply right away on July 31, 2019 (not meeting RO, only 708 days - but knowing I'm Canada, have a job, etc.)?

What are my chances?
Are there any other option?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Arnold

Never renew your PR card when you haven’t met the requirements. Requirements are there for a reason. You got lucky once and didn’t get reported but this will now cause a problem because your chances of getting your new PR card by December is not great. You will have to apply for a PRTD once you arrive for the wedding and wait until you get your PRTD to return home. If you have a US visa you could fly home through the US and enter using your COPR. Having a home and job in Canada doesn’t impact these applications.

 

[Pal3580]

Hi all,
My PR card was expired in 2017. Both me and my wife came to Canada in May 2017. We were not reported. Now I have completed 750 days and my wife completed 735 days. We never travelled outside Canada in these two years. In 2017 we sponsered our son who is 5 years old . Then we got residency obligation questionnaire. It was replied back with valid reasons and PR was issued to our son. Now my question is . Does it make any difference if we both me and wife apply separately. I need to travel in June .is it ok to send employment letter and tax documents for the past two years as proof of residency to avoid delay in PR process.

Highly appreciate quick response..

I just wondering how u sponsored ur son with expired p r card in 2017.Can a person sponsored his relative with expired card as u already told that your p r card expired in 2017

 

[dpenabill]

I just wondering how u sponsored ur son with expired p r card in 2017.Can a person sponsored his relative with expired card as u already told that your p r card expired in 2017

First and foremost: date a PR card expires is NOT relevant.

What matters is that the PR has valid status. That is, that the PR is NOT inadmissible. This mostly means the PR is NOT in breach of the PR Residency Obligation.

It is NOT necessary to have a PR card to have valid status.

Thus, for example, it is entirely OK for a PR to make an application to sponsor a family member even though the PR does not have a valid PR card AS LONG AS the PR is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

For a PR who has failed to comply with the PR Residency Obligation, generally it is prudent to WAIT to make applications to IRCC, be that for a new PR card or to sponsor a family member, AND ONLY apply after the PR is in compliance with the RO.

However that is NOT a fixed rule. It does NOT always apply. It is NOT true that a PR should never make an application until the PR has met the two in five years RO requirement.

That is, contrary to bad or erroneous advice offered by some (definitive declarations in general tend to at least overstate the case and often are otherwise misleading, since how things go in actual cases VARIES considerably subject to the particular facts and circumstances), despite being short of compliance with the RO a PR settled in Canada who applies for a PR card, or who applies to be family class sponsor, MAY be OK, and the application may be approved, IF the PR has sufficient H&C reasons that IRCC will allow the PR to retain PR status.

H&C cases are incredibly tricky. Even the strongest cases are NOT anywhere near a sure thing. So to make an application depending on H&C reasons is usually a big gamble. The SAFE bet is to wait.

But there are periodic reports consistent with the experience reported by @joss, whose query I responded to in another topic where the same query was posted:

It appears that when you sponsored your child's PR you were subject to a RO determination and, in effect, the breach of RO was waived on H&C grounds. Of course I am not sure of this, but that is how it appears.

So you probably could have made the PR card application any time. That is of course history, now, but if indeed you were given an H&C pass, you should be comfortable making the PR card application as soon as practical.

It is not likely including additional documents will accelerate the processing times. But . . . there is no penalty for including extra documents. Keep it to a few and keep them SIMPLE.

It is more likely that the previous H&C pass (assuming that is what happened) will facilitate routine processing, which is about as fast as you can expect. But there is a serious risk you will not be getting a new card by June, now . . . processing times have come down a lot recently, so it may depend on by when in June you need a new card . . . last I looked, IRCC processing time interface is down, but you should be able to check the IRCC website later to see current processing times for PRC applications.

If the travel is for business, employment, a family emergency, you may be able to obtain urgent processing. See the website for instructions AND for IRCC's description of what qualifies for urgent processing.

 

[arnoldlev]

Never renew your PR card when you haven’t met the requirements. Requirements are there for a reason. You got lucky once and didn’t get reported but this will now cause a problem because your chances of getting your new PR card by December is not great. You will have to apply for a PRTD once you arrive for the wedding and wait until you get your PRTD to return home. If you have a US visa you could fly home through the US and enter using your COPR. Having a home and job in Canada doesn’t impact these applications.

Thank you very much for responding.

This is new to me - what's the procedure entering Canada using COPR (is this the COPR I first use for landing in 2014) ?

 

[arnoldlev]

It is apparent you know the rules and how they apply to your situation. You know your particular facts.

This is not an appropriate venue for obtaining detailed personal advice. Some here may be willing to offer such advice but doing that evidences their unreliability.

Beyond that, that said, it is difficult to forecast or predict how much influence WHEN you make the PR card application will have. The various factors which can influence how it goes have been discussed in depth in many topics here. And they are largely obvious to anyone who is familiar with the rules and how they apply to particular fact patterns . . . like cutting-it-close.

The pattern you describe has some fairly positive elements, like the regular or periodic periods of time in Canada, and suggests you probably have other positive factors related to ties in Canada. But until last year the pattern also has some negative implications, suggesting a life centered abroad rather than in Canada.

Regardless which approach you take, there is some RISK you will NOT be able to obtain a new PR card in time for your scheduled trip. You can still travel and, depending on where you will be, you may be able to apply for and obtain a PR Travel Document to facilitate the return trip to Canada . . . or, if you have status allowing you to travel via the U.S., you could rearrange travel so that you can enter Canada at a land crossing from the U.S.

Also note that PR card application processing times tend to vary from time to time, including during a given year. Then there is a Federal election approaching this fall; while there is no obvious reason why this should affect processing times, historically it has.

Many here would probably emphasize NOT making the application until you are fully in compliance with the Residency Obligation. My sense is that there is some wiggle room in this regard, but that is in significant part based on continuing to get credit for days in Canada after the application is made (at least until there is a formal RO examination and as long as there is no decision to issue a Departure or Removal Order) . . . but in your situation come the end of July, until the end of August, you do not gain any days credit (as you acknowledge, given days five years old fall out of the calculation).

Given how close you are and the fact of now being settled in Canada, odds of a favourable H&C decision may obviate the risks of applying early . . . but that would be a gamble and, so far as the sparse reporting goes, those kinds of cases appear to involve non-routine processing and thus take significantly longer than routinely processed PRC applications.

Basically you have painted yourself into a bit of a corner. Risk of losing PR status appears to not be too serious, but there is some risk of that looming. There is a significantly higher risk of having to deal with a lengthy PRC application process, and thus having to deal with obtaining a PR Travel Document while abroad if you proceed to take the trip.

Circumstances can change some in the coming months, so you will probably want to monitor news and trends and not make firm decisions until you really need to make them.

Thank you still for responding and giving out your thoughts and suggestions.
I will definitely take all the above into consideration.
Losing PR is not in my interest as I intend to live in Canada

 

[canuck78]

Thank you very much for responding.

This is new to me - what's the procedure entering Canada using COPR (is this the COPR I first use for landing in 2014) ?

Yes you can enter using COPR via a land border in a private car but you still can get reported. If you are from a country that needs a visa you will be certainly asked about how many days you have spent in Canada and can get reported. Attending a wedding is not a reason not to comply with your residency requirement. Up to you to decide if you are willing to risk your PR.