H1B life vs. Moving to Canada - Experience sharing

[fr72]

If you are going to live by what others think/say, good luck.
FWIW, try saying you moved from US like from California to Canada and folks here too would think you are crazy.

I do think a lot about what others say. Do you know what Indian recruiters in India think about non managers over the age of 30? If you paid attention, you wouldnt want to move back to India to work.

I gave interview for Indian position and I was interrogated with suspicion - why are you returning to India? Got fired? Visa denied? No such questions when I moved to Canada from US.

Do you think Canadians in US were worried and flooding immigration forums when NAFTA (hence TN visa) was in danger? No one cares if you have to leave to go back to an equal country.

Would you really care if you were deported from Nigeria to India?

 

[fr72]

Absolutely, no one is denying that statement. Speaking for myself, yes, if I can get GC, sure I will stick around. But that is not the reality.

Simple analogy. You go to Six flags hoping you get to go on your favorite ride and eat some fries from a café that you visited last time. Primary reason is the ride, secondary reason is fries. When you get there your favorite ride has a looooong line and estimate is that you will have to wait all day and may not get to eat fries because the café will be closed by the time you are done with your ride.

And there is another ride (next to your favorite ride) with no wait time. If you choose this one, you get ride your second favorite ride, eat your fries, and go home.

So the question is: do you stick around for your favorite ride that you came to the park for? Or make the best of the situation and ride the second favorite ride. While deciding that you consider the secondary benefit of fries to make the second offer better. Eating fries is only a secondary benefit, nevertheless a benefit that may tip the scale for SOME people. So they, we, use this secondary factor. This doesn't mean the primary factor is not important.

Some people will adamantly refuse to leave the 1st line and keep watching as others with more foresight, take the 2nd ride, eat the fries, do some shopping and rejoin the line, if they want, for 1st ride at the same position they left in.

 

[harirajmohan]

I do think a lot about what others say. Do you know what Indian recruiters in India think about non managers over the age of 30? If you paid attention, you wouldnt want to move back to India to work.

I gave interview for Indian position and I was interrogated with suspicion - why are you returning to India? Got fired? Visa denied? No such questions when I moved to Canada from US.

Do you think Canadians in US were worried and flooding immigration forums when NAFTA (hence TN visa) was in danger? No one cares if you have to leave to go back to an equal country.

Would you really care if you were deported from Nigeria to India?

Agree. Stupid HR guys think that everyone needs to be a Director/VP after 10 years and ask those stupid questions as if they are going to recruit us for whole life without firing. Too much competition for a single job hence they set the bar high without even thinking anything. Same HR recruits in US differently. So its based on demand and supply and screw the system and exploit the people - they are doing it for manufacturing low level workers for decades(even now) and now it spread to all areas, especially IT.

All they care about is profit hence they will shed higher experience guys and recruit freshers to get trained . Well its sweet till 5 years and then its pressure to keep up .... so it becomes chaos on work life balance.... its great for companies when there is too much people applying for same job...

 

[DEEPCUR]

And other people bring up US military might and inventions in such discussions to justify living like a 3rd class citizen, one layoff away from deportation to a 3rd world country.

Lol, sorry it doesn't work this way. You are giving too much credit Canadian PR. It is definitely a good back up, but that much is it. If visa stability is not a priority for someone, there are enough incentives to continue in US too.
And one lay off doesn't deport anyone anywhere. People are allowed to stay sixty days and change jobs. I have seen lot of people getting laid off easily to find other jobs and continue to stay in US. Not even one person has moved out of US. Even in Canadian PR forums, you see people saying I have lived in US for 15 years, 17 years blah blah.. nobody got deported with one job loss. Even the ones who go back to India due to visa denials seem to be coming back in no time.

And please , third class citizens don't drive expensive cars, take a expensive vacations, live in a good neighborhood and all that.

In fact, there would be more examples of people voluntarily returning to the same third world country despite having Canadian PR than people who are leaving despite tied to a work visa in US.

 

[DEEPCUR]

I do think a lot about what others say. Do you know what Indian recruiters in India think about non managers over the age of 30? If you paid attention, you wouldnt want to move back to India to work.

I gave interview for Indian position and I was interrogated with suspicion - why are you returning to India? Got fired? Visa denied? No such questions when I moved to Canada from US.

Do you think Canadians in US were worried and flooding immigration forums when NAFTA (hence TN visa) was in danger? No one cares if you have to leave to go back to an equal country.

Would you really care if you were deported from Nigeria to India?

I know at least two Canadians at my work place who were extremely stressed about NAFTA - TN visa thing. If someone was minting money legally in Nigeria, they would definitely be worried if they are asked to leave the country. If things are working out in terms of career and money for people, any move from a well set situation would be painful.

The pain comes from leaving a well paid job and established circle in US (or any place where one is), and not about going back to Canada or India. The stress most have is no US any more. It might be lot easier to get another job in US in sixty days than going back to Canada immediately and finding the job in same time frame. With the kind of job market that Canada has, if one doesn't land in a job immediately , going back to Canada in a hurry without a job is a nice way to lose all your savings. It is not a thing for native Canadians as they would already have a family there and can afford to wait in Canada.

I would also like to reiterate someone's interview experience in Canada was on similar lines of what you had in India. The person was trying to move from US to Canada, and he was getting all sorts of questions saying what is the reason for your move, why are you moving from US, US is different from Canada and we cannot pay that much and all that. Everyone's miles will vary in these things anywhere and India and Canada won't make any difference.

And I still don't understand how Canadian passport is going to valuable if the plan is to come back to US and continue living in visa mess. It is useful only if someone is a globe trotter and wants to explore different countries. Otherwise it It probably cuts the travel time while going back from US. Still one needs to uproot and sort out things like selling house in US. May be saves the hassle of selling a car at the best.

I will reiterate your original quote on getting jobs, if one is good at what they are doing, they can get jobs anywhere without difficulty either in US or Canada or India. If you were so confident about your skills from your previous posts, you could easily get another job in US as well in a layoff scenario in sixty days. Why would you bring it up as deal maker for Canada?

 

[Samoinp]

I do think a lot about what others say. Do you know what Indian recruiters in India think about non managers over the age of 30? If you paid attention, you wouldnt want to move back to India to work.

I gave interview for Indian position and I was interrogated with suspicion - why are you returning to India? Got fired? Visa denied? No such questions when I moved to Canada from US.

Do you think Canadians in US were worried and flooding immigration forums when NAFTA (hence TN visa) was in danger? No one cares if you have to leave to go back to an equal country.

Would you really care if you were deported from Nigeria to India?

It can happen any where with any employer. Any change in profile will prompt queries.

The question is why are you even considering an employer with that kind of a mindset? Use it as an opportunity to filter those out.
If one knows their value, it would be easy to move on from others ignorance. They just don't know any better, no big deal.

 

[fr72]

Lol, sorry it doesn't work this way. You are giving too much credit Canadian PR. It is definitely a good back up, but that much is it. If visa stability is not a priority for someone, there are enough incentives to continue in US too.
And one lay off doesn't deport anyone anywhere. People are allowed to stay sixty days and change jobs. I have seen lot of people getting laid off easily to find other jobs and continue to stay in US. Not even one person has moved out of US. Even in Canadian PR forums, you see people saying I have lived in US for 15 years, 17 years blah blah.. nobody got deported with one job loss. Even the ones who go back to India due to visa denials seem to be coming back in no time.

And please , third class citizens don't drive expensive cars, take a expensive vacations, live in a good neighborhood and all that.

In fact, there would be more examples of people voluntarily returning to the same third world country despite having Canadian PR than people who are leaving despite tied to a work visa in US.

Oh really? Nothing bad ever happens eh? Then why are you on this forum? If you are so confident of getting job in 60 days? Why are all the friends I know applying for Canada PR? Why would anyone even need a backup?

Only 3rd class citizens have to sit at home because they are stuck on visa renewal and no longer have a drivers license. Only 3rd class citizens avoid important family events back in India for fear of visa stamping delays. Seen plenty of such examples. Huge house, but no freedom. USA is basically a North American gulf country for Indians.

 

[fr72]

I know at least two Canadians at my work place who were extremely stressed about NAFTA - TN visa thing. If someone was minting money legally in Nigeria, they would definitely be worried if they are asked to leave the country. If things are working out in terms of career and money for people, any move from a well set situation would be painful.

The pain comes from leaving a well paid job and established circle in US (or any place where one is), and not about going back to Canada or India. The stress most have is no US any more. It might be lot easier to get another job in US in sixty days than going back to Canada immediately and finding the job in same time frame. With the kind of job market that Canada has, if one doesn't land in a job immediately , going back to Canada in a hurry without a job is a nice way to lose all your savings. It is not a thing for native Canadians as they would already have a family there and can afford to wait in Canada.

I would also like to reiterate someone's interview experience in Canada was on similar lines of what you had in India. The person was trying to move from US to Canada, and he was getting all sorts of questions saying what is the reason for your move, why are you moving from US, US is different from Canada and we cannot pay that much and all that. Everyone's miles will vary in these things anywhere and India and Canada won't make any difference.

And I still don't understand how Canadian passport is going to valuable if the plan is to come back to US and continue living in visa mess. It is useful only if someone is a globe trotter and wants to explore different countries. Otherwise it It probably cuts the travel time while going back from US. Still one needs to uproot and sort out things like selling house in US. May be saves the hassle of selling a car at the best.

I will reiterate your original quote on getting jobs, if one is good at what they are doing, they can get jobs anywhere without difficulty either in US or Canada or India. If you were so confident about your skills from your previous posts, you could easily get another job in US as well in a layoff scenario in sixty days. Why would you bring it up as deal maker for Canada?

Are you seriously suggesting that India and Canada are basically the same in terms of work culture? Yes, i could get a job in India. Yes, Canada salaries are lower. Have you looked at India's salaries? Have you looked at the number of hours you are required to put in at the office in India? Lets not even go into the non-work quality of life.

As for Canadian passport, yes its valuable to come back. I have seen plenty of cases where desi managers cant go to the meeting in Europe because its last minute. Guess who gets further promotions? Yes, I also want to globe trot. And I want to retire at 45 without worrying about insurance premiums till 65 (assuming one ever gets US citizenship). I want to collect SS without the 30 day residency rule. I want to be able to take a break whenever I want and still have the right to live in a pollution free country. I want the option of TN if H1B is made even tougher.

Let me ask you again, if India is so great, why are you even here? Why even apply for a Canada PR, you have your India backup right?

 

[fr72]

It can happen any where with any employer. Any change in profile will prompt queries.

The question is why are you even considering an employer with that kind of a mindset? Use it as an opportunity to filter those out.
If one knows their value, it would be easy to move on from others ignorance. They just don't know any better, no big deal.

The employer is a well known MNC and one of the few places which could afford to pay a decent salary in India. If I start filtering these out, I will be left with poverty level wages.

The real question is, if you think everything is hunky dory in India, why are you even on a Canada immigration forum?

 

[harirajmohan]

Are you seriously suggesting that India and Canada are basically the same in terms of work culture? Yes, i could get a job in India. Yes, Canada salaries are lower. Have you looked at India's salaries? Have you looked at the number of hours you are required to put in at the office in India? Lets not even go into the non-work quality of life.

As for Canadian passport, yes its valuable to come back. I have seen plenty of cases where desi managers cant go to the meeting in Europe because its last minute. Guess who gets further promotions? Yes, I also want to globe trot. And I want to retire at 45 without worrying about insurance premiums till 65 (assuming one ever gets US citizenship). I want to collect SS without the 30 day residency rule. I want to be able to take a break whenever I want and still have the right to live in a pollution free country. I want the option of TN if H1B is made even tougher.

Let me ask you again, if India is so great, why are you even here? Why even apply for a Canada PR, you have your India backup right?

I dont see any use in comparing one country to another, especially with the country where we came from. Every country has its own good and bad. If Canada is that good then all people will be just in this country to migrate. I dont deny that its better in many ways than India but comparison differs from person to person.

Coming to our social security, i thought i can get my benefits being in India but seems my whole efforts of getting Canadian Citizenship are in trouble. Same issue on social security not able to pay, came up 10 years ago and still out there. Not sure if this will change before we retire....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/22/politics/social-security-medicare-trustees-report/index.html

 

[21Goose]

Hey hi, I do remember our discussions.

I just bring this up when people list guns, healthcare, schools and political system as reasons to move to Canada from US in H1 forum and I personally feel that no matter what people say, the only reason Indians consider Canada is to mitigate backlog life in US and eventually get Canadian passport.

I wonder why it's so hard for you to understand that other people may actually value things differently than you?

Do you think everyone thinks exactly like you do on every subject under the sun? Anyone who disagrees is lying? You know the real truth about everything?

It's just odd to see you insist on this, time after time after time.

Well, good luck to you. I know it takes all sorts to make this world.

 

[fr72]

I dont see any use in comparing one country to another, especially with the country where we came from. Every country has its own good and bad. If Canada is that good then all people will be just in this country to migrate. I dont deny that its better in many ways than India but comparison differs from person to person.

Coming to our social security, i thought i can get my benefits being in India but seems my whole efforts of getting Canadian Citizenship are in trouble. Same issue on social security not able to pay, came up 10 years ago and still out there. Not sure if this will change before we retire....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/22/politics/social-security-medicare-trustees-report/index.html

I didnt start this comparison. But lets be realistic. If India was great, we would see Canadians lined up for Indian work visas.

For me, Social security is a tiny tiny part of my retirement plans. By itself its not a decider. But even then, it is well known that US SS is close to bankrupt. Canadian SS is very well funded and under the US-Canada treaty, our US work credits are counted by Canada and Canada CPP is paid out. Dont quote me on the last part, as I am not sure who actually pays. I suspect if US SS goes away, Canadian govt will step in to take care of its expat citizens.

 

[Cubicrootofthee]

Hey hi, I do remember our discussions.

I just bring this up when people list guns, healthcare, schools and political system as reasons to move to Canada from US in H1 forum and I personally feel that no matter what people say, the only reason Indians consider Canada is to mitigate backlog life in US and eventually get Canadian passport.

Having to rely on a job for healthcare insane no matter how you look at it.
I agree the gun control argument is statistically insignificant. Until you/your family is involved.
I don't agree about lack of school quality. I believe they will be the same if you make that a priority in the US.
I'm moving this Summer. Let's see where the adventure takes me.

 

[DEEPCUR]

I wonder why it's so hard for you to understand that other people may actually value things differently than you?

Do you think everyone thinks exactly like you do on every subject under the sun? Anyone who disagrees is lying? You know the real truth about everything?

It's just odd to see you insist on this, time after time after time.

Well, good luck to you. I know it takes all sorts to make this world.

No offense meant to you in anyways, I clearly stated it as my personal opinion. If you feel US schools and healthcare is broken, and Canadian schools and healthcare work great, so be it. I don't know real truth about everything, however numbers don't lie..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_diaspora

Nearly, 10% of Canadian population has left the country and majority of them have headed towards US.. not to mention 75,000 Canadians living illegally in US leaving their access to great schools and healthcare. If things were so great in comparison to US, what is reason that all of these people have moved? Career just cannot be answer as people have kids and need to access schools, healthcare, deal with guns and all that.

 

[DEEPCUR]

Having to rely on a job for healthcare insane no matter how you look at it.
I agree the gun control argument is statistically insignificant. Until you/your family is involved.
I don't agree about lack of school quality. I believe they will be the same if you make that a priority in the US.
I'm moving this Summer. Let's see where the adventure takes me.

I agree for healthcare.. but you could get shot in Canada too. All of the western world have problems with guns. US is always criticized for guns, and NZ has been admired for peace, but after the NZ Mosque shooting, it turned out that NZ has poor gun laws too. It is all fate. I have never seen NZ been criticized for guns laws before.

Not so long ago, a 19 year old immigrant was brutally shot dead by someone who broke in their house in Winnepeg. There is a experience of someone who had bunch of people knocking their doors with guns in Alberta at their apartment for burglary. The person was newly moved immigrant and they were scared to their life after that incident. It was directly from the person who experienced it, don't remember if it was in this forum or a Whatsapp group.