Incorrect Refusal by CIC

[Peacekeeper87]

to me it is not an incorrect refusal, CIC agents directly go to overall Canadian equivalency.

which is just a bachelor 4 years in his report. so they are right at some point, WES failed to include second credential in final summary, you must have asked WES to correct it, basically include second credential at top, in finally summary, before filling your PR application

we had similar issue here before, I made one of my friend contact WES to update his evaluation, they happily did it.

Now, CIC, application form is flawed, or failed you in this case, they asked for qualification credentials, reference number etc, you submitted as an honest person, they automatically awarded you points, which is right thing, but they failed to ask you that what is your final or overall "Canadian equivalency summary" says.

now, what is the right thing to do.
firstly ask, WES to update your report,
which should look like

Bachelor's degree (four years) and College level certificate (one year)

then may be you can re-appeal your case, or just re-submit your application again after an invite.

-----
understand comments of the agent



he is saying, you said you have two credentials
but your report says

" a ‘Bachelor’s Degree (four years)"

the "a" means one,

he said, you claimed 2 credential but report shows only one.


but, he noted second credential,

"this foreign credential does not constitute to at least a one-year
post-secondary program credential equivalency assessment."

Now i am guessing, there is nothing to do with "As per the Ministerial Instructions respecting the Express Entry System"

he interpreted that, WES does not think that one year certificate is worth mentioning in final report, or in other words, its equivalency to Canadian study is less than a year, that is why they are not mentioning it in final summary.


----------------------------
the only mistake you made is, filed the application, before considering the final summary report.

I did extensive study on this subject, to understand, what stands for "two or more", many people here on the forum asked WES to update their final summary, they got positive results, my friend did, they faced no problems at all.


my dedicated thread,
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/clarification-on-two-or-more-certificates-diplomas-or-degrees.535010/


people who got their WES changed
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/1-diploma-1-degree-1-post-sec-credential-only.264117/page-5#post-5153478
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/wes-eca-for-diploma-engineering-graduates.391526/page-2#post-5037983
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/1-diploma-1-degree-1-post-sec-credential-only.264117/page-5#post-5194502

they increase points also
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/1-diploma-1-degree-1-post-sec-credential-only.264117/page-5#post-5266551

100% agree.

 

[GauravChopra4]

to me it is not an incorrect refusal, CIC agents directly go to overall Canadian equivalency.

which is just a bachelor 4 years in his report. so they are right at some point, WES failed to include second credential in final summary, you must have asked WES to correct it, basically include second credential at top, in finally summary, before filling your PR application

we had similar issue here before, I made one of my friend contact WES to update his evaluation, they happily did it.

Now, CIC, application form is flawed, or failed you in this case, they asked for qualification credentials, reference number etc, you submitted as an honest person, they automatically awarded you points, which is right thing, but they failed to ask you that what is your final or overall "Canadian equivalency summary" says.

now, what is the right thing to do.
firstly ask, WES to update your report,
which should look like

Bachelor's degree (four years) and College level certificate (one year)

then may be you can re-appeal your case, or just re-submit your application again after an invite.

-----
understand comments of the agent



he is saying, you said you have two credentials
but your report says

" a ‘Bachelor’s Degree (four years)"

the "a" means one,

he said, you claimed 2 credential but report shows only one.


but, he noted second credential,

"this foreign credential does not constitute to at least a one-year
post-secondary program credential equivalency assessment."

Now i am guessing, there is nothing to do with "As per the Ministerial Instructions respecting the Express Entry System"

he interpreted that, WES does not think that one year certificate is worth mentioning in final report, or in other words, its equivalency to Canadian study is less than a year, that is why they are not mentioning it in final summary.


----------------------------
the only mistake you made is, filed the application, before considering the final summary report.

I did extensive study on this subject, to understand, what stands for "two or more", many people here on the forum asked WES to update their final summary, they got positive results, my friend did, they faced no problems at all.


my dedicated thread,
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/clarification-on-two-or-more-certificates-diplomas-or-degrees.535010/


people who got their WES changed
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/1-diploma-1-degree-1-post-sec-credential-only.264117/page-5#post-5153478
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/wes-eca-for-diploma-engineering-graduates.391526/page-2#post-5037983
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/1-diploma-1-degree-1-post-sec-credential-only.264117/page-5#post-5194502

they increase points also
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/1-diploma-1-degree-1-post-sec-credential-only.264117/page-5#post-5266551

So I did my CA IPCC(2011-2013) for which WES gave me credentials of One year college certificate and side by side I was doing my graduation in commerce(2011-2014), for which WES gave me credentials of bachelors degree of 4 years. As per what you explained, I would not be eligible to apply under two or more degree, diploma or certificates, even though both the degree and certificate were done after my 12th standard (secondary edu)?

 

[H0peAndFa1th]

When I got my 1 yr post grad certificate assessed by WES they said it was a post grad (one semester). I was not able to claim points for this initially. If WES had just written post grad certificate then I could. I wonder if you were rejected because WES is saying you only have a Bachelor's and that your certificate is only equal to completing the first year of a Canadian college certificate and not the whole certificate. It is almost as if they are saying you only have a Bachelors.

you got it right, almost.

 

[H0peAndFa1th]

So I did my CA IPCC(2011-2013) for which WES gave me credentials of One year college certificate and side by side I was doing my graduation in commerce(2011-2014), for which WES gave me credentials of bachelors degree of 4 years. As per what you explained, I would not be eligible to apply under two or more degree, diploma or certificates, even though both the degree and certificate were done after my 12th standard (secondary edu)?

Get your ECA done, and see what is final summary says, ask WES to update, if you feel its incorrect, or atleast know the reason why they are not including your certificate in final summary.

 

[GauravChopra4]

Get your ECA done, and see what is final summary says, ask WES to update, if you feel its incorrect, or atleast know the reason why they are not including your certificate in final summary.

I got it done, and the summary says One year college level certificate and four year degree.
So that means I can apply for 2 or more, right?

 

[H0peAndFa1th]

I got it done, and the summary says One year college level certificate and four year degree.
So that means I can apply for 2 or more, right?

see there are higher chances you would get it, but, an agent/officer can interpret it any way, they have the authority to accept it or decline it.

now interesting part ::
if you studied, have diploma/certificate and WES
can you exclude it from application ?
no you can not, it would be misrepresentation - cardinal sin.
so you are forced to add it in express entry profile.
now, they automatically award points, you have no control over it,
their system will automatically award you higher points, you can't say no to it.
then it will be handed over to an officer, he can let it go, or halt it, like happened with writer of this thread.

crucial part is, for an agent, to see that your second certificate/diploma/degree, requires secondary education.
which means, your credential is post-secondary, which is eligible to gain points.

if he/she thinks, your second certificate/diploma/degree is not done/completed after secondary education, he/she will not give you extra points.

what they want is

base == 10 -- +2 - secondary education, Secondary school diploma (Canadian thing)
----------
3 years bachelor << u get points (need "base" for admission)
one year, two year, another bachelor, or degree/certificate/diploma. << u get points (need "base" for admission)
-------

hope this makes everything clear.

 

[Shahanastar]

see there are higher chances you would get it, but, an agent/officer can interpret it any way, they have the authority to accept it or decline it.

now interesting part ::
if you studied, have diploma/certificate and WES
can you exclude it from application ?
no you can not, it would be misrepresentation - cardinal sin.
so you are forced to add it in express entry profile.
now, they automatically award points, you have no control over it,
their system will automatically award you higher points, you can't say no to it.
then it will be handed over to an officer, he can let it go, or halt it, like happened with writer of this thread.

crucial part is, for an agent, to see that your second certificate/diploma/degree, requires secondary education.
which means, your credential is post-secondary, which is eligible to gain points.

if he/she thinks, your second certificate/diploma/degree is not done/completed after secondary education, he/she will not give you extra points.

what they want is

base == 10 -- +2 - secondary education, Secondary school diploma (Canadian thing)
----------
3 years bachelor << u get points (need "base" for admission)
one year, two year, another bachelor, or degree/certificate/diploma. << u get points (need "base" for admission)
-------

hope this makes everything clear.

One could still add it in personal history without having to worry about misrepresentation?

 

[GauravChopra4]

see there are higher chances you would get it, but, an agent/officer can interpret it any way, they have the authority to accept it or decline it.

now interesting part ::
if you studied, have diploma/certificate and WES
can you exclude it from application ?
no you can not, it would be misrepresentation - cardinal sin.
so you are forced to add it in express entry profile.
now, they automatically award points, you have no control over it,
their system will automatically award you higher points, you can't say no to it.
then it will be handed over to an officer, he can let it go, or halt it, like happened with writer of this thread.

crucial part is, for an agent, to see that your second certificate/diploma/degree, requires secondary education.
which means, your credential is post-secondary, which is eligible to gain points.

if he/she thinks, your second certificate/diploma/degree is not done/completed after secondary education, he/she will not give you extra points.

what they want is

base == 10 -- +2 - secondary education, Secondary school diploma (Canadian thing)
----------
3 years bachelor << u get points (need "base" for admission)
one year, two year, another bachelor, or degree/certificate/diploma. << u get points (need "base" for admission)
-------

hope this makes everything clear.

The case analyst has put my file under RR and he did not include my certificate but only degree, even when WES has considered both. Now I am just hoping for the case officer to consider it. Been waiting from 8 months.

 

[GauravChopra4]

see there are higher chances you would get it, but, an agent/officer can interpret it any way, they have the authority to accept it or decline it.

now interesting part ::
if you studied, have diploma/certificate and WES
can you exclude it from application ?
no you can not, it would be misrepresentation - cardinal sin.
so you are forced to add it in express entry profile.
now, they automatically award points, you have no control over it,
their system will automatically award you higher points, you can't say no to it.
then it will be handed over to an officer, he can let it go, or halt it, like happened with writer of this thread.

crucial part is, for an agent, to see that your second certificate/diploma/degree, requires secondary education.
which means, your credential is post-secondary, which is eligible to gain points.

if he/she thinks, your second certificate/diploma/degree is not done/completed after secondary education, he/she will not give you extra points.

what they want is

base == 10 -- +2 - secondary education, Secondary school diploma (Canadian thing)
----------
3 years bachelor << u get points (need "base" for admission)
one year, two year, another bachelor, or degree/certificate/diploma. << u get points (need "base" for admission)
-------

hope this makes everything clear.

And what happened with the writer of this thread was that in the summary, he was only awarded one degree, whereas I have got a certificate and a degree in my summary.

 

[SithLord]

Even in my WES ECA summy only my bachelor's(4 years) is mentioned and not my Postgraduate Diploma. When I had asked WES about this they said they only mention the highest credential. That is strange.

Anyways, I filed my application with WES and later took a second ECA with IQAS, and they mentioned both my bachelor's and post-graduate certificate as equivalent to comparative levels in Canada.

I did not know the summary thing was important. Now, even I feel my application will be rejected Think it's too late now to send them a different ECA

 

[derkdsou]

I am glad you were proactive and took matters into your own hands by getting another ECA done! As far as I know, an assessment from IQAS or WES has the same weight as an assessment from any of the recognized assessment bodies.

If you're worried you could have the same fate as @gotyou0000, there are two things you can do. You need to take a call based on your GCMS notes on whether to act:

1. Raise a CSE or speak to IRCC about your second assessment which clearly shows the two degrees/diplomas as recognized separately.
2. Get back in touch with WES with more vigor and try to convince them to include the diploma as a second line on your summary. @GauravChopra4 could be a good resource for this - see his posts above; his summary mentions both degrees/diplomas.

Even in my WES ECA summy only my bachelor's(4 years) is mentioned and not my Postgraduate Diploma. When I had asked WES about this they said they only mention the highest credential. That is strange.

Anyways, I filed my application with WES and later took a second ECA with IQAS, and they mentioned both my bachelor's and post-graduate certificate as equivalent to comparative levels in Canada.

I did not know the summary thing was important. Now, even I feel my application will be rejected Think it's too late now to send them a different ECA

 

[SithLord]

I am glad you were proactive and took matters into your own hands by getting another ECA done! As far as I know, an assessment from IQAS or WES has the same weight as an assessment from any of the recognized assessment bodies.

If you're worried you could have the same fate as @gotyou0000, there are two things you can do. You need to take a call based on your GCMS notes on whether to act:

1. Raise a CSE or speak to IRCC about your second assessment which clearly shows the two degrees/diplomas as recognized separately.
2. Get back in touch with WES with more vigor and try to convince them to include the diploma as a second line on your summary. @GauravChopra4 could be a good resource for this - see his posts above; his summary mentions both degrees/diplomas.

In my GCMS notes, the program assistant only mentioned my bachelor's and not the diploma. However, he did not flag it RR

Anyways, I will send a CSE immediately. Thank you

 

[derkdsou]

The way I see it is that no harm can come from sending IRCC your second ECA from IQAS. It only helps you to provide evidence for the "two degrees/diplomas" category for which you have claimed points. This is where the WES summary might fail you!

Another idea: When you get back in touch with WES, show them your new ECA from IQAS. You will be coming from a position of power and they might just update/"correct" your summary without making a fuss.

In my GCMS notes, the program assistant only mentioned my bachelor's and not the diploma. However, he did not flag it RR

Anyways, I will send a CSE immediately. Thank you

 

[vivosvoco]

One could still add it in personal history without having to worry about misrepresentation?

I thinks so. For the degrees you are not claiming points for (with or without ECA), just throw them into personal history.

 

[SithLord]

The way I see it is that no harm can come from sending IRCC your second ECA from IQAS. It only helps you to provide evidence for the "two degrees/diplomas" category for which you have claimed points. This is where the WES summary might fail you!

Another idea: When you get back in touch with WES, show them your new ECA from IQAS. You will be coming from a position of power and they might just update/"correct" your summary without making a fuss.

Thank you. I have just sent a CSE and also an email to Ottawa along with an explanation.

I still have no clue why WES would say they only mention highest credential. Now it's going to be another hassle with them,