We know the good side of moving to Canada as a PR. We all are frustrated with the H1B life. The purpose of this thread is to understand both sides of coins and learn from others' experiences.
its a good idea, i am thinking of doing the same. I dont even care abt the GC anymore, being on H1B is not bad at all if you lose ur job and have to return to Canada (where u can maintain lifestyle) as opposed to India (where u will face social shame for returning on top of other things).Enough ranting for now. I will ask my questions/ options soon - about moving to US for few years - is it a wise move or not?
Cheers!
If you are going to live by what others think/say, good luck.its a good idea, i am thinking of doing the same. I dont even care abt the GC anymore, being on H1B is not bad at all if you lose ur job and have to return to Canada (where u can maintain lifestyle) as opposed to India (where u will face social shame for returning on top of other things).
I'm more or less in the same boat as yours.I also need to make a call on this soon as its already been about a year since I got my Canadian PR and I don't want to wait too long to move there to allow sufficient time for travel/emergencies etc. and still be able to meet the residency obligation and cut it too close.
Having lived in US for half of my life and still having no hopes of getting a green card, I guess I can share some of my own viewpoints about why Canada or why US which I think about every single day. Below are some thoughts on the issue which I keep internally debating on and rationalizing why I may move to Canada.
Why US –
1. Money - There isn't any country on this planet which gives you more opportunities to make money than its in US. Even as H1B holder, if your skills are in demand, you can make boatload of money in US. If you live in right areas, its an added bonus with additional saving opportunities due to lower COL. I'm in Silicon Valley and there are people living in Austin or Dallas who may earn 20%-30% less than what I earn but they save more hence have more money than me. It’s all about where you are located and what COL is in that area but even with higher COL, your earning ability is more in US, there is no debate about that.
2. Job opportunities - Even as H1B employee, its much easier to land in a FTE or contract position while in US. I have undergone a lay off at FTE position and ended up doing contracting via a body-shopping company for past several years. I've never had a period of more than 1 or 2 weeks when I was on bench or without a project. In my experience its easier to have an employment even with various restrictions in US than in Canada. I’ve tried applying for few positions in GTA area and barring one company, no one even bothered to reply or show any interest in hiring me. If this was a situation with Canadian PR in hand and having worked in top companies throughout Silicon Valley for multiple years not sure what other individuals will experience from non IT background. Granted, my search attempts were half hearted and never serious enough to test the true nature of the job market in Canada so don’t take it as ultimate proof of lack of job opportunities in Canada.
3. Comfort – Having lived in US for about 17 years, US is where I’m currently comfortable at and have built my life around. With this type of time period I've spent in US, its very hard for me to uproot everything and then head to Canada. Its just simple fact that spending significant amount of time in one place will make you love that place and feel you belong there. For me it’s the city I live in and own a home and have a family. Its going to be hard for me to replicate it again in Canada considering I’ll have to start all over again which is why I have not yet moved to Canada. Heart says go to Canada but mind says stay here as you have to uproot everything you have built through last 17 years.
Why Canada -
1. PR - There is no better reason to give up my life in US than live with PR in hand. I do not know that feeling nor I’ve experienced it ever. As said earlier, I’ve lived in US for about 17 years on various non-immigrant statuses ranging from H4 to F1 to H1. Having that feeling of being on PR and being able to travel freely and not have to worry about whether you will be allowed back in the country or worry about whether you will lose your status if you are out of job is priceless. I believe this alone is sufficient reason to chose Canada over US. With daily horror stories we hear about H1 workers and our troubles such as renewal denials, amendments, stamping refusals etc. living on PR is a dream which I can attain if I just move to Canada instead of slaving it out in US in hope of a mirage that is GC.
2. Better Work-life balance – I would love to live a peaceful and harmonious life than struggle with constant rat race that is work culture in Silicon Valley. With 1 year daughter, I would rather spend more time with her than worry about taking offshore calls at dinner time which unfortunately is a daily occurrence. Being on call 24x7 and expected to work nights and weekends in addition to regular work hours is mind numbing and not sustainable in long run. That added stress and its health effect is not something I’m willing to endure for few extra $$$. Having spent time with my daughter which I’ll cherish in my old age is more important for me than getting that extra 50k or 100k in the bank .
3. Saner Gun laws - I'm sick to my stomach that half of US population cannot comprehend that guns kill people. There is no sane reason why anyone in civilized society should own one let alone a fully automatic machine guns like AR-15 designed to kill as many people as possible in shortest amount of time. This is not wild west of 1700s or 1800s or an active war zone where every citizen must defend for themselves. Canadian gun laws and relative safety it provides compared to US is something I appreciate would want to live with. I do not want to live in a country where one day my daughter can go to a school or restaurant and get killed for no reason. I’m not willing to accept this for few extra $$$s. No amount of money is important for me than my family and their safety.
4. Healthcare – Government provided healthcare another reason to choose Canada. I’ve seen healthcare costs skyrocket in US in part few years and government not doing anything to curb that. Even well intentioned laws like ACA are political tools used by both parties to beat other’s head while people’s lives are at risk. Last year when my daughter was born, even with having decent enough employer provided insurance I had to shell out close to 10k for out of my own pockets for medical expenses. For profit healthcare never works as greed will keep driving the prices up. Its simply a common sense that when profits enter the equation, every company tries to maximize the profit and not the expenses (i.e. spend money on quality care).
5. Politics – Politics in US is broken as half of the country is hell bent on destroying what made it strong and great in the first place. Both parties are bickering and getting entrenched in their positions while middle class is suffering due to increased healthcare cost, flat wages and increased tax burden due to changes in tax laws benefiting ultra wealthy. Broken politics is a reason why no laws which have potential to benefit millions of individuals are getting passed, case in point is immigration reform which widely has support of close to 70% of population but unable to be passed. At least in Canada, there is functioning democracy and common sense legislation are getting passed while the debate if about policies and what to do about the issue unlike here where its about whether the issue even exists such as gun safety/healthcare/immigration reform etc.
6. Acceptance of immigrants – I’ve travelled to Canada on multiple occasions and many places in US. I firmly believe that Canadians are much more accepting to immigrants than US. In US, even government calls us Aliens as if we come from some far away planet. In my limited travels to Canada, everyone felt more welcoming to me than I’ve ever felt while traveling in US. In US either people are indifferent or tolerate us than welcoming us and accept us as one of their own. I would much rather prefer to live in a country which make me believe that I belong there as one of their own.
I think I'll be much happier with less pay but better work life balance. I'll be much happier if I earn 50K less but in return not worry about whether USCIS will raise RFE on my H1 renewal or amendment and whether I'll get 221G when I ask for stamping. I much rather worry about which country to visit for vacation next summer than whether I can even travel out to meet extended family because my stamping is expired. I much rather spend time playing with my daughter and teaching her new things on weekends than putting on a headset and stare at WebEx.
I think choice is crystal clear
Dude, we have been talking about this for awhile. You and I exchanged these kinds of questions even before I moved to Canada.In my opinion stability due to visa situation aka associated peace of mind is the one reason and probably only reason for most of us to move to Canada.
Show me one person from India who would be interested to move to Canada despite having green card for all the pluses that you listed above?
Hey hi, I do remember our discussions.Dude, we have been talking about this for awhile. You and I exchanged these kinds of questions even before I moved to Canada.
Let me give you a dose of reality: in 28 months I will be eligible to apply for Citizenship. You wouldn't even be able to tell me long it will take you to get GC in 28 months. Let that sink in.
Bottom line, it's not 0% or 100%. There are varying degrees of freedom. No one is going to stop you from going back to the US after getting Canadian passport. Sure, you will still be on work visa, "lost" 4 years of increased savings, but if there is any trouble with visa, put your things in a car, drive up 1000 miles, voila, you are home. Peace!
I have identical sentiments on parents' thing and for me that's second biggest positive after immigration stability. Both parents' sponsorship and super visa are huge deal makers for me. I also learnt that if one resides in Quebec, they can sponsor parents' PR just after one year of residence (as compared to 3 years in rest of Canada) which I consider very lucrative too. the flexibility to be able to bring parents long term through various means is one of the biggest reason I chose to apply Canada over Australia as I was having option to get both.Thanks @langoorbandar, @gtvisa2020, @DEEPCUR and others for sharing your thoughts.
I am running along these lines these days.
- The big positive with Canada is the safety and stability of PR and relative ease of getting Citizenship. One additional benefit of PR/Citizenship is ability to sponsor my parents/in-laws to live with me. Even if we magically get a GC in the next 5 years, our parents will be 75+ by the time we become USC and sponsor them. Not being with them when they need me is disheartening.
- As others have mentioned the other points are not super important and dealbreakers as such. But those do tilt the scale at least a little in favor of Canada.
Completely agreed thats why I said PR is the only reason enough to move to Canada, rest are all secondary and not as important however, work life balance is certainly something I'll consider even if I were to stay in US. I'll probably move to a lower COL area as well as move away from rat race called Silicon Valley work culture of Desi IT Vultures.I'm more or less in the same boat as yours.
Would you agree that we search for pluses for Canada just for the sake of convincing ourselves to move and in all honesty those things doesn't really matter for Indians to live in US? In my opinion stability due to visa situation aka associated peace of mind is the one reason and probably only reason for most of us to move to Canada.
Show me one person from India who would be interested to move to Canada despite having green card for all the pluses that you listed above?
True, I reside in on of those low col area and work as FTE, and my experience has been positive in that aspect too. I don't remember when I logged in after 5 pm in last 4 years or so. I believe these things totally depend upon work culture and management in a company, and Canada may not be an answer for that.Completely agreed thats why I said PR is the only reason enough to move to Canada, rest are all secondary and not as important however, work life balance is certainly something I'll consider even if I were to stay in US. I'll probably move to a lower COL area as well as move away from rat race called Silicon Valley work culture of Desi IT Vultures.
And other people bring up US military might and inventions in such discussions to justify living like a 3rd class citizen, one layoff away from deportation to a 3rd world country.Hey hi, I do remember our discussions.
I just bring this up when people list guns, healthcare, schools and political system as reasons to move to Canada from US in H1 forum and I personally feel that no matter what people say, the only reason Indians consider Canada is to mitigate backlog life in US and eventually get Canadian passport.