+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Leaving Canada after applying

nanni_doc

Star Member
Jun 4, 2014
192
42
Category........
Visa Office......
warsawa
NOC Code......
3112
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15 December 2014
Doc's Request.
13 May 2015
IELTS Request
submitted with application
File Transfer...
dont know
Med's Request
14 May 2015
Med's Done....
15 May 2015
Interview........
Third Line Update - 28 May 2015, DM/FLU - 25 June 2015
Passport Req..
7th July 2015; passports submitted: 7July 2015; Passports received back: 16 July 2015
VISA ISSUED...
26 june 2015
LANDED..........
Hopefully in November
Apart from the inherently logistical RISKS (missing notifications or failing to get to scheduled events on time, among others) that are involved if living abroad while a citizenship application is in process, which are discussed in multiple topics here . . . a reminder that this subject is NOT nearly so cut-and-dry as some suggest . . .

These days there appear to be few reports of processing problems resulting from the applicant's absence from Canada AFTER applying, assuming the applicant otherwise meets the requirements AND, of course, timely responds to all IRCC communications and appears for scheduled events.

And, currently, there is nothing about being outside Canada after applying that in itself constitutes a reason to deny the application . . .

. . . unless the process takes so long, and the applicant remains outside Canada so long, that at any point before taking the oath the applicant fails to be present in Canada at least 730 days within the preceding five years (this would be grounds for a Removal Order which would prohibit a grant of citizenship . . . which in the past, when processing times were very long for some applicants, meant that even applicants approved and scheduled for the oath were instead reported at the PoE upon their return to Canada and not only did not become citizens but lost their PR status).

So it is correct to state, as some have, that applicants are NOT required to continue living in Canada while the application is processing, AND there is NO required intent to live in Canada.

Nonetheless some CAUTION is warranted.

It is NOT true, for example, that IRCC is "not allowed to take this factor [applicant living abroad after applying] into consideration." To be clear, there is very, very little restriction on what factors IRCC can take into consideration when assessing the facts in a citizenship application. IRCC cannot discriminate on the basis of certain things like religion or race, for example. IRCC cannot employ a game of chance (rolling dice for example) or other capricious means for making a decision on an application for citizenship. And, overall, the reasons for the decision must be REASONABLE, which involves principles like the applicable standard and burden of proof (applicant has the burden to prove qualification beyond a balance of probabilities).

This leads back to the observation that THESE DAYS there appear to be few reports of processing problems resulting from the applicant's absence from Canada AFTER applying. It may indeed be the current LIBERAL government's general policy to recognize the need for more flexibility in a global economy and as a matter of practice NOT elevate scrutiny (not impose non-routine processing) just because the applicant has gone abroad after applying. I am NOT sure this is the case, BUT even if it is, there is going to be a Federal election by October and the Liberals are currently NOT polling well at all.

Thus, new applicants, and more than a few of those who currently have applications in process, should be aware that policies and practices can change, and potentially change rather dramatically, in the event a different government is formed later this year, especially if it is a Conservative government.

This leads to recognizing the difference between what the law literally and technically prescribes, and the practical impact that the wide, wide range of discretionary policies and practices can have.

Best illustration of this is that even BEFORE there was any intent-to-continue-residing-in-Canada requirement, under BOTH Liberal and Conservative governments just the mere fact the applicant was living abroad after applying WAS AN EXPLICIT FACTOR in determining if there were REASONS-TO-QUESTION-RESIDENCY. At that time the residency requirement calculation was in fact specifically about the relevant time period (four years at the time), and time outside Canada after applying could NOT deduct from the calculation. BUT NONETHELESS applicants who were perceived to be living abroad after applying were commonly subjected to elevated scrutiny, RQ, and much longer processing time lines.

This became especially prominent during the years Harper was PM. But it was under a Liberal government, before Harper, that CIC (as it was then named) formally adopted criteria for questioning the applicant's residency based on indications the applicant was abroad and returning just for the purpose of attending the test or oath ceremony. This was in an appendix added to CP-5 Residence in 2005. Then under the Harper government this was taken to a much more severe extreme, when it appears CIC may have been deliberately stalling processing applicants who were perceived to be applying-on-the-way-to-the-airport or otherwise seeking-a-passport-of-convenience.

To be clear, IRCC does NOT need to explain or have justification to issue RQ. Perhaps the current government is NOT targeting applicants living abroad for RQ or even considering this factor when deciding whether or not to issue RQ (my sense is that this may not be a big factor, like it has been in the past, but that it is probably still considered to some extent).

But, for example, if a Conservative government is formed later this year, NO CHANGE in the LAW itself is necessary for IRCC to pay a lot more attention to applicants who are abroad or to impose RQ on them.


WHICH IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE OP'S CONCERN, ABOUT HOW BEING ABROAD MIGHT POTENTIALLY AFFECT THE PROCESS, IS VALID.

IRCC cannot deny the applicant just because the applicant is living abroad. But it can ask a lot more questions. It can approach the applicant's account of facts more skeptically. It can issue RQ. And the fact the applicant is living or working abroad after applying can be what triggers this . . . or a factor in conjunction with others that triggers this.

Whether it will or not is the big question. The RISK. Many believe that risk is fairly low (or even non-existent) under the current government.

My sense is that the current risk depends in part on the extent to which the applicant has other risk factors . . . for example, an applicant who applies within just a few days of reaching the eligibility threshold and promptly leaves Canada to live and work at a job abroad, I'd guess has a rather significantly higher risk of non-routine processing, RQ, and a more skeptical approach to assessing the evidence of actual presence.

We can only speculate about what the risk will be later this year. No crystal ball or powers of prophesy are necessary, however, to forecast the risks increasing if the next government is Conservative . . . the real question, if that happens, is by how much.


THAT SAID, AS FOR HOW TO RESPOND TO QUESTIONS ABOUT BEING ABROAD:

As others have said and emphasized, and for which a DUH is perhaps warranted: the only way to respond to such questions is HONESTLY, FRANKLY, OPENLY . . . without artifice. Any attempt to script answers to such questions is far, far more likely to appear disingenuous or evasive or defensive or outright deceptive, EVEN if the answer is actually truthful . . . and thus more likely to trigger concerns, doubts, or suspicions, again EVEN if the answer is actually truthful.

Note for example, even at the peak of the Harper government crackdown on applicants who appeared to apply-on-the-way-to-the-airport, many applicants abroad while the application was pending did NOT encounter problems . . . why many did and others did not is a separate discussion, which is not worth the tangent here since, again, there are NO odds trying to script this. The applicant who goes abroad does so for his or her own reasons. If asked about it, the truth is the only sensible response.

Dude calm down, OP asked a simple question, no need to write a book to answer it. There are other ways vent frustation!
 

nanni_doc

Star Member
Jun 4, 2014
192
42
Category........
Visa Office......
warsawa
NOC Code......
3112
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15 December 2014
Doc's Request.
13 May 2015
IELTS Request
submitted with application
File Transfer...
dont know
Med's Request
14 May 2015
Med's Done....
15 May 2015
Interview........
Third Line Update - 28 May 2015, DM/FLU - 25 June 2015
Passport Req..
7th July 2015; passports submitted: 7July 2015; Passports received back: 16 July 2015
VISA ISSUED...
26 june 2015
LANDED..........
Hopefully in November
The only issue that seems to me is to respond in a timely manner, which I think with every request being sent via email with some time margin to respond, there is a little risk. I think I can meet these time margins with no problems.
You cannot rely in IRCC to send you an email instead of sending paper letter. I know what you are saying but you should either have a responsible person answering postal mail or remain in Canada for 6-8 months it will take for you to acquire a Canadian passport. I myself have done the former.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaBeaver

jc94

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2016
830
163
The only issue that seems to me is to respond in a timely manner, which I think with every request being sent via email with some time margin to respond, there is a little risk. I think I can meet these time margins with no problems.
Just remember that depending upon where you will be coming from / going to, last minute flights can be quite expensive. Be sure to book as quickly as you can when you get dates for test/docs/oath. Good luck.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaBeaver

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
Just remember that depending upon where you will be coming from / going to, last minute flights can be quite expensive. Be sure to book as quickly as you can when you get dates for test/docs/oath. Good luck.
How long do they usually give to present yourself for the oath, for example? Last minute flights implies that they give a couple of days. Is this the case?
 

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
You cannot rely in IRCC to send you an email instead of sending paper letter. I know what you are saying but you should either have a responsible person answering postal mail or remain in Canada for 6-8 months it will take for you to acquire a Canadian passport. I myself have done the former.
Yes, if I leave I will put my friend's address in Canada to keep me updated in case they send anything via mail.
 

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
You cannot rely in IRCC to send you an email instead of sending paper letter. I know what you are saying but you should either have a responsible person answering postal mail or remain in Canada for 6-8 months it will take for you to acquire a Canadian passport. I myself have done the former.
I understand that you left Canada after applying for the citizenship. Did anyone ask you "why" when you presented yourself at the oath or when you applied for the passport?
 

jc94

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2016
830
163
How long do they usually give to present yourself for the oath, for example? Last minute flights implies that they give a couple of days. Is this the case?
I believe it's about two weeks normally for any appointment, others can likely confirm.

Flights get more expensive as you get closer and seats sell. Airlines will sell out of cheapest fares first and then move into only selling more expensive ones. If it's the middle of the summer / spring break etc... and there are limited seats left prices will be higher. Generally same/next day is the worst, but as you get further out things get cheaper. Also you can often save money by flying mid-week (not Fri-Mon), and including a Saturday night stay - basically things business travelers don't do.

In the middle of summer a same/next day flight from certain locations is almost impossible. Google flights is your friend to find best prices/availability.
Also if you have an appointment at say 3pm on a Tuesday, don't arrive 9am on the Tuesday; actually don't even arrive Tuesday due to possible delays, try Sunday. Especially if you are in the middle of winter, flights being delayed by two days is entirely possible. Flying business class helps if affordable.

But even in decent weather there are risks. BA flew to the wrong country yesterday. Plan to be at least a day late!

Just my two cents.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaBeaver

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
I believe it's about two weeks normally for any appointment, others can likely confirm.

Flights get more expensive as you get closer and seats sell. Airlines will sell out of cheapest fares first and then move into only selling more expensive ones. If it's the middle of the summer / spring break etc... and there are limited seats left prices will be higher. Generally same/next day is the worst, but as you get further out things get cheaper. Also you can often save money by flying mid-week (not Fri-Mon), and including a Saturday night stay - basically things business travelers don't do.

In the middle of summer a same/next day flight from certain locations is almost impossible. Google flights is your friend to find best prices/availability.
Also if you have an appointment at say 3pm on a Tuesday, don't arrive 9am on the Tuesday; actually don't even arrive Tuesday due to possible delays, try Sunday. Especially if you are in the middle of winter, flights being delayed by two days is entirely possible. Flying business class helps if affordable.

But even in decent weather there are risks. BA flew to the wrong country yesterday. Plan to be at least a day late!

Just my two cents.
Just two weeks? I appreciate if someone else could confirm this. Thanks for the information, though.
 

jc94

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2016
830
163
Just two weeks? I hope someone else can confirm this. Thanks for the information, though.
Had a quick look at oath in titles and this is from another recent thread here:

Ceremony Invite: 22th January
Ceremony Date: 8th february


That's technically 2.5 weeks. There are probably more examples if you search around. But like anything with the CIC, I imagine it varies. Either way, ensure whomever is checking your mail does so at least twice a week. I found another case where it was 9 days although that wasn't recent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaBeaver

nanni_doc

Star Member
Jun 4, 2014
192
42
Category........
Visa Office......
warsawa
NOC Code......
3112
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15 December 2014
Doc's Request.
13 May 2015
IELTS Request
submitted with application
File Transfer...
dont know
Med's Request
14 May 2015
Med's Done....
15 May 2015
Interview........
Third Line Update - 28 May 2015, DM/FLU - 25 June 2015
Passport Req..
7th July 2015; passports submitted: 7July 2015; Passports received back: 16 July 2015
VISA ISSUED...
26 june 2015
LANDED..........
Hopefully in November
I understand that you left Canada after applying for the citizenship. Did anyone ask you "why" when you presented yourself at the oath or when you applied for the passport?
I havent gotten the test invite yet, and yes the time they give is between 2 to 4 weeks, definitely not less than 2 weeks. You can check the spread sheet for more details.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaBeaver

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
So, after submitting an application for the citizenship, and assuming everything goes right, there is first the test, then the oath, and then the passport application. Right? How far are these spaced out from each others?
 

nanni_doc

Star Member
Jun 4, 2014
192
42
Category........
Visa Office......
warsawa
NOC Code......
3112
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
15 December 2014
Doc's Request.
13 May 2015
IELTS Request
submitted with application
File Transfer...
dont know
Med's Request
14 May 2015
Med's Done....
15 May 2015
Interview........
Third Line Update - 28 May 2015, DM/FLU - 25 June 2015
Passport Req..
7th July 2015; passports submitted: 7July 2015; Passports received back: 16 July 2015
VISA ISSUED...
26 june 2015
LANDED..........
Hopefully in November
So, after submitting an application for the citizenship, and assuming everything goes right, there is first the test, then the oath, and then the passport application. Right? How far are these spaced out from each others?
You might get a Fingerprint PCC request which will delay the process by about 1 month (that's what happened to me, people who submitted FP pcc got test invitation roughly after a month of submission).

On average its 2-4 weeks between test and oath (again, check the spreadsheet for past 4 months). After oath, you can apply for Passport after 3 business days
 
  • Like
Reactions: CaBeaver

itsmyid

Champion Member
Jul 26, 2012
2,250
649
You might get a Fingerprint PCC request which will delay the process by about 1 month (that's what happened to me, people who submitted FP pcc got test invitation roughly after a month of submission).

On average its 2-4 weeks between test and oath (again, check the spreadsheet for past 4 months). After oath, you can apply for Passport after 3 business days
Finger Print request would delay the process by a month? that's nothing...
I got the FP request after 17 months of processing, after all background checks were done, test/interview passed - I can see how it happened: The ICC officer took a look at my file and realized they had stalled my case for 17 months and though: hmmmm, what can we do do make it infinitely longer? I got an idea, let's send him a finger print request! It's been a month since I submitted my print through RCMP, nothing happened so far
 

CaBeaver

Champion Member
Dec 15, 2018
2,941
1,369
Why they "might" send fingerprint request? It's not required for all applicants? And I assume I need to be present in Canada to do it, right? So, I need to be in Canada for the fingerprints, test, and oath. Not as easy as I thought it might be.
 
Last edited: