Visitor Visa rejected - third time

[SFKAS]

My sister's visitor visa was rejected the third time today

First time she applied in 2012 (along with parents and other sibling) - all rejected

Second time she applied in 2015 with other sibling (after parents visa was approved few months earlier)

Third time she applied (by herself after parents visa was approved a couple of months ago) less than a week ago and today they rejected it

Two prior times (2012 and 2015) the reasons for rejection were the following and the same both times:

1) ties to country of residence and Canada
2) travel history

This time the reasons of rejection are following:

1) ties to country of residence and Canada
2) employment opportunities in country of residence

I am a permanent resident of Canada and sent her an invitation letter to the best of my ability

She attached every possible document including the following:

Her current employment letter
Bank Statement
Pay slips
She showed parents financial support as well so their bank statement, property documents, business docs etc
In the explanation letter she attached previous rejection letters
Addressed the rejection reasons individually and in detail
She also attached a vacation approval letter from current employer
Since the current job is about 8 months old she attached previous job's employment letter
Previous job's payslips

In my view every possible document was attached.

I have vast experience with Canadian applications (visitor, study, work and permanent residence) and I advised her on her application. I left no stone unturned so to speak and was pretty sure that it would be approved this time.

The reason for travel history is no longer there as she listed all the countries she travelled to and explained the travel history in detail. I don't know if that's the reason that is not anymore a reason for rejection.

I am a little shocked and frustrated. What else do they want. She has a great life in her country of residence and has no reason whatsoever to stay more than two weeks which was the duration showed in the visa application

Trust me I made sure she did the application with extreme attention to details and technicalities.

So previous rejection letters said something like "do not apply unless your circumstances substantially change ..."

This one says you can apply if you can address the reasons of refusal

Please advise as I want her to apply again right away

My parents are visiting me in the coming months and they want her to bring her along and so do I

 

[SFKAS]

hey @Bryanna @scylla and others please advise

 

[SFKAS]

Can anyone please advise

 

[SFKAS]

So helpful you guys!!!

I gave all the information in the first post. May be that's why!! you guys probably think its too much to read.

Isn't it better to give all info at once rather than leave questions to be answered

 

[scylla]

She should not reapply given she has three refusals. She should wait until her circumstances change significantly enough that she has a much stronger case.

Her parents' documents (e.g. financial support, property, etc.) are of no value and do not strengthen her application.

 

[Bryanna]

My sister's visitor visa was rejected the third time today

First time she applied in 2012 (along with parents and other sibling) - all rejected

Second time she applied in 2015 with other sibling (after parents visa was approved few months earlier)

Third time she applied (by herself after parents visa was approved a couple of months ago) less than a week ago and today they rejected it

Two prior times (2012 and 2015) the reasons for rejection were the following and the same both times:

1) ties to country of residence and Canada
2) travel history

This time the reasons of rejection are following:

1) ties to country of residence and Canada
2) employment opportunities in country of residence

I am a permanent resident of Canada and sent her an invitation letter to the best of my ability

She attached every possible document including the following:

Her current employment letter
Bank Statement
Pay slips
She showed parents financial support as well so their bank statement, property documents, business docs etc
In the explanation letter she attached previous rejection letters
Addressed the rejection reasons individually and in detail
She also attached a vacation approval letter from current employer
Since the current job is about 8 months old she attached previous job's employment letter
Previous job's payslips

In my view every possible document was attached.

I have vast experience with Canadian applications (visitor, study, work and permanent residence) and I advised her on her application. I left no stone unturned so to speak and was pretty sure that it would be approved this time.

The reason for travel history is no longer there as she listed all the countries she travelled to and explained the travel history in detail. I don't know if that's the reason that is not anymore a reason for rejection.

I am a little shocked and frustrated. What else do they want. She has a great life in her country of residence and has no reason whatsoever to stay more than two weeks which was the duration showed in the visa application

Trust me I made sure she did the application with extreme attention to details and technicalities.

So previous rejection letters said something like "do not apply unless your circumstances substantially change ..."

This one says you can apply if you can address the reasons of refusal

Please advise as I want her to apply again right away

My parents are visiting me in the coming months and they want her to bring her along and so do I

As your post mentioned that you have 'vast experience in Canadian applications', ''every possible document was attached', 'no stone was left unturned' etc.... it becomes difficult for anyone to advise.


Nonetheless here it is:
1. Since how long has she been working (after graduation)?

2. Does her job pay well? Does she have unique work responsibilities that her co-workers cannot do? Is it full-time, permanent employment?

3. Does she have financial investments? Credit cards? Mortgage? Loans?

4. Why did she include financial support from your parents?

5. Your parents movable/immovable assets cannot be included in her application.

6. Which countries has she traveled to? Typical length of those visits? Purpose of those visits?

7. Does she have any other commitments other than her work commitments that would compel her to return to her home country?

8. Do post the list of documents that she submitted (specific details)

9. Do your parents have TRVs or super visas?

 

[SFKAS]

As your post mentioned that you have 'vast experience in Canadian applications', ''every possible document was attached', 'no stone was left unturned' etc.... it becomes difficult for anyone to advise.

Yeah and none of my applications have ever been refused. Thanks to God

Nonetheless here it is:
1. Since how long has she been working (after graduation)?

1 year 8 months - Both employment letters and payslips attached

2. Does her job pay well? Does she have unique work responsibilities that her co-workers cannot do? Is it full-time, permanent employment?

Well it pays as well as it can be for a fairly new graduate in Pakistan. It is a NOC A/B job. Nothing unique I wouldn't say

3. Does she have financial investments? Credit cards? Mortgage? Loans?

Nope. She's just 24 if that matters.

4. Why did she include financial support from your parents?

Because I thought her pay and bank balance is not up to that level so may be that be helpful. Please keep in mind reasons of refusal does not include financial reason

5. Your parents movable/immovable assets cannot be included in her application.

Well tbh its all over the place. Some people with her exact same profile have been issued visas. I am a permanent resident been here forever. My parents have travelled to Canada. Have no idea what the visa officer has doubts on.

6. Which countries has she traveled to? Typical length of those visits? Purpose of those visits?

Mostly in that part of the world. Not US, UK, Aus etc but again travel history is not one of the reasons for refusal

7. Does she have any other commitments other than her work commitments that would compel her to return to her home country?

No. Not sure what you mean by that.

8. Do post the list of documents that she submitted (specific details)

The detail is in my first post. Those are the docs but I can repeat them

Her current employment letter
Bank Statement
Pay slips
She showed parents financial support as well so their bank statement, property documents, business docs etc
In the explanation letter she attached previous rejection letters
Addressed the rejection reasons individually and in detail
She also attached a vacation approval letter from current employer
Since the current job is about 8 months old she attached previous job's employment letter
Previous job's payslips

9. Do your parents have TRVs or super visas?

Yes they have TRV which was just approved a couple of months ago. They got it for over 5 years. This is their second visa

I have no idea what the visa officer wants. Obviously the officer doesnt know what I know that she has no reason whatsoever to stay here other than two weeks. Things are good where she is. Don't know what else to attach.

What do you think?

 

[SFKAS]

She should not reapply given she has three refusals. She should wait until her circumstances change significantly enough that she has a much stronger case.

Her parents' documents (e.g. financial support, property, etc.) are of no value and do not strengthen her application.

I read a thread where it said it sometimes work if you apply right after being refused. Honestly no circumstances are changing. She's employed working and that's how it going to be. Honestly this process frustrates me and is annoying. I have been a law abiding resident of Canada forever. My parents have gotten visa, visited and left. Don't know what these guys want. I doubt they looked at the application in detail. The reason I say that is that she attached every possible document related to her present and past employment yet one of the reasons of refusal is lack of employment opportunities in country of residence. Doesn't make sense to me

They haven't given finances as one the reasons so it doesn't matter I guess

 

[mr.zombie]

I read a thread where it said it sometimes work if you apply right after being refused. Honestly no circumstances are changing. She's employed working and that's how it going to be. Honestly this process frustrates me and is annoying. I have been a law abiding resident of Canada forever. My parents have gotten visa, visited and left. Don't know what these guys want. I doubt they looked at the application in detail. The reason I say that is that she attached every possible document related to her present and past employment yet one of the reasons of refusal is lack of employment opportunities in country of residence. Doesn't make sense to me

They haven't given finances as one the reasons so it doesn't matter I guess

I would suggest ask your sister to make a strong letter of explanation letter. Canadian Visa officer reads the letter in detail. Its like you r giving him/her interview. Cover all the refusal points (not the one your sister has got) all refusal points that are mentioned in refusal letter. I think they are around 10 points. Make sure to attach documents and give reference to all those documents in letter of explanation. FOR EXAMPLE:

Travel History - I do not have travel history because I was busy in my studies. I studied 4 years bachelor of engineering in computer from year xyz. I have attached my documents with my application.

Similarly you can explain each and every point with documentation and honestly.

AGAIN MAKE SURE TO ADD DOCUMENTS.

Also I would suggest to make a table of content like index for all the documents for your sister.

You have to explain all the points that could lead to the refusal of everyone not only your sister.

I hope this helps

 

[SFKAS]

I would suggest ask your sister to make a strong letter of explanation letter. Canadian Visa officer reads the letter in detail. Its like you r giving him/her interview. Cover all the refusal points (not the one your sister has got) all refusal points that are mentioned in refusal letter. I think they are around 10 points. Make sure to attach documents and give reference to all those documents in letter of explanation. FOR EXAMPLE:

Travel History - I do not have travel history because I was busy in my studies. I studied 4 years bachelor of engineering in computer from year xyz. I have attached my documents with my application.

Similarly you can explain each and every point with documentation and honestly.

AGAIN MAKE SURE TO ADD DOCUMENTS.

Also I would suggest to make a table of content like index for all the documents for your sister.

You have to explain all the points that could lead to the refusal of everyone not only your sister.

I hope this helps

There was a letter of explanation attached and was done exactly like you say. I have mentioned that in the first post about that too.

Previous refusal letters were attached and each refusal reason was addressed individually. Extra docs were attached.

That is why I am thinking did the visa officer even read that.

So annoying

 

[Bryanna]

I read a thread where it said it sometimes work if you apply right after being refused. Honestly no circumstances are changing. She's employed working and that's how it going to be. Honestly this process frustrates me and is annoying. I have been a law abiding resident of Canada forever. My parents have gotten visa, visited and left. Don't know what these guys want. I doubt they looked at the application in detail. The reason I say that is that she attached every possible document related to her present and past employment yet one of the reasons of refusal is lack of employment opportunities in country of residence. Doesn't make sense to me

They haven't given finances as one the reasons so it doesn't matter I guess

It is incorrect to address only the refusal reasons that were stated. A different visa officer could have refused your sister for some other reasons.

It is advisable to evaluate the application as a complete package instead of addressing just the stated refusal reasons.


Contrary to what you might believe, your sister does NOT have a strong application profile to be granted a TRV.
1. She is young

2. She graduated pretty recently

3. Her income won't support her visit

4. She does not have financial investments (that could indicate a good financial situation)

5. She is not able to prove she is credit worthy = Indirectly proves she has stable finances to be able to pay off credit card bills, mortgages, loans, etc. And, no her age of 24 years has nothing to do with this.

6. She does not have any immovable assets nor a downpayment towards a property

7. She does not have any travel history to visa-required countries = She has not proved that she met the entry conditions/visa requirements to those countries + she has not proved that she has a history of returning to Pakistan after short visits abroad

8. Her only strong tie is her employment. Based on your post, as a young employee, her employment ties/work commitments would not be critical to her workplace.

9. Your parents were probably granted TRVs by indicating your sister as the family tie to return to. With your sister applying for a TRV, it indicates the entire family might overstay their visit.


In short:
She checks all the boxes for someone who is likely to overstay her visit because she does not have any compelling ties to Pakistan

 

[unlucky_chaser]

In short: She checks all the boxes for someone who is likely to overstay her visit because she does not have any compelling ties to Pakistan

This is very accurate and thank you Bryanna for sharing the honest truth with users here.

Meta point though: I never understand why the rule is set up this way. Without proper work authorization, why would anyone, no matter how desperate, stay in Canada?

They'll never be able to even rent a place (I was always forced to show my visa/permit when renting)! They'll never have healthcare. They'll never be able to even go to school. Where do IRCC get the idea that someone with a bad job in the Third World will likely overstay? I could see that happening in the US where there are avenues (and sympathy) towards undocumented immigrants but in Canada, life is hell and Canada stopped short of burning undocumented migrants at the stake.

So where do they get this idea that people will overstay unless they have a 6 figure job that they held for years in their country of residence?

 

[Bryanna]

This is very accurate and thank you Bryanna for sharing the honest truth with users here.

Meta point though: I never understand why the rule is set up this way. Without proper work authorization, why would anyone, no matter how desperate, stay in Canada?

They'll never be able to even rent a place (I was always forced to show my visa/permit when renting)! They'll never have healthcare. They'll never be able to even go to school. Where do IRCC get the idea that someone with a bad job in the Third World will likely overstay? I could see that happening in the US where there are avenues (and sympathy) towards undocumented immigrants but in Canada, life is hell and Canada stopped short of burning undocumented migrants at the stake.

So where do they get this idea that people will overstay unless they have a 6 figure job that they held for years in their country of residence?

I was thinking more along the lines of a young lady marrying someone in Canada during her visit (6 months stay is long enough to do this even if the stated visit duration in the visa application was just for a couple of weeks). Culturally speaking, this is a possible scenario for young applicants from the Indian sub-continent

 

[SFKAS]

Appreciate all your responses.

Point is this is all luck of the draw

My parents weren't given the visa due to my sister. They have had a visa before for years. We have a pretty solid setting back home with the grace of God.

I call BS on the process. Way too many people with similar profiles get Canadian visitor visa.

The most important thing is there is not even 1% possibility that they would over stay or even stay more than a couple of weeks but the visa officer can obviously come to her his/her conclusions

I have been in and out of this system and know how it works. Its just purely unfair.

 

[Bryanna]

Appreciate all your responses.

Point is this is all luck of the draw

My parents weren't given the visa due to my sister. They have had a visa before for years. We have a pretty solid setting back home with the grace of God.

I call BS on the process. Way too many people with similar profiles get Canadian visitor visa.

The most important thing is there is not even 1% possibility that they would over stay or even stay more than a couple of weeks but the visa officer can obviously come to her his/her conclusions

I have been in and out of this system and know how it works. Its just purely unfair.

If your parents had strong application profiles then IRCC would have also granted a TRV to your sister when she applied with your parents in 2012 or in 2015. Your sister is the family tie for your parents to return to. This is a fairly common strategy in cases where IRCC believes the parent(s) might overstay/not return to their home country.

Also, you probably got your PR in 2014-15, and that's why IRCC granted your parents TRVs in 2015. They were again recently granted TRVs because they had already proved that they were genuine short-stay visitors on their previous TRVs.

One size does not fit all. Other applicants probably have stronger ties to their home country than your sister. Visas are not granted purely based on luck, and nothing is unfair although it might seem like that to applicants who are refused.

The first step is to acknowledge that your sister has a weak application profile + her previous applications did not work. If the documents/evidence were adequate or if they had the ability to convince the visa officers that your sister is a genuine visitor then she would not have been refused three times.

If one keeps an open mind that is receptive to suggestions then it is possible to prepare a better application