Canada safe third country agreement

[Bornlucky]

Ok but what if someone has valid visas for numerous safe countries as well as canada and they choose canada over others and fly to canada from home country with or without passing through a safe country they hold the visa for?

Refugee decisions are based upon the merits of the individual applications and the evidence provided. If you are convincing it will be approved, and if you're convincing but should have, could have or didn't claim elsewhere won't be determinative. It is hard to fly directly to Canada

Thanks. It makes sense but a couple of points. Moving cities has no use because the core problem is the law of the land which applies everywhere in the country which makes a community subject to persecution and a variety of discriminations. The case is well known globally and its my concern that returning to home country permanently will be questioned as to why not come directly when the threat was so well known and obvious.

You are going to get lost in the weeds on this website when it ought to be sufficient that, if you arrive in Canada, you are likely going to be eligible to make a claim to Convention refugee status, and here are the statistics and your country should be here: https://irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statistics/protection/Pages/RPDStat2017.aspx

Some of your countrymen managed to get here, managed to make a claim and some percentage managed to be accepted and remain in Canada. Why did you not claim somewhere else? Maybe you saw Justin Trudeau's messages of generosity and tolerance for refugees and juxtaposed it to the rest of the world, or your relative is here, or perhaps you have seen rising anti-immigrant attitudes everywhere but Canada.

Don't get too hung up on this visa business and how it relates to your claim and instead have proof of the personal risk that you say you will face that conforms to the Convention refugee definition.

 

[canuck78]

Would consider discussing your case with an immigration lawyer in Canada although some lawyers will tell you what you want to hear. Coming from a 3rd country is always risky because you are not actually fleeing persecution. We have also seen cases, even recently, where people had grounds for asylum but since they had not attempted to relocate in their country they were refused.

 

[maddy044]

Ok here it is. Life is in danger in home country because of religious persecution. Currently residing for work in another country(likely not safe/non-signatory to Geneva convention). Have valid visas for multiple countries as said above but no travel to any of these for atleast past one year. A couple of short careful trips to home country in past two years. Job now finishing so must return to home country so danger of persecution. All this scenario in a family setup with young kids. Any tips are welcome.
I know safe third country agreement run between US and Canada. But taking a flight transiting through a US airport trigger its use? Considering I also have blood relation in Canada

Let me guide you a little with my own personal experience and not based on hearsay.
1: I had visas for a few different countries including the USA
2: I flew to Canada through 2 different countries namely UAE and USA.
3: This issue came up in my hearing and my answer was that I believed Canada is more welcoming and I had a better chance of being accepted here than elsewhere hence why I did not make my claim in the US.
4: I am now a permanent resident.

Hope this helps!

Edit: I believe the safe third country agreement does not apply to people who fly into Canada. It only applies to people who cross the border from the US through other means of transport and not through official ports of entry.

 

[canuck78]

Let me guide you a little with my own personal experience and not based on hearsay.
1: I had visas for a few different countries including the USA
2: I flew to Canada through 2 different countries namely UAE and USA.
3: This issue came up in my hearing and my answer was that I believed Canada is more welcoming and I had a better chance of being accepted here than elsewhere hence why I did not make my claim in the US.
4: I am now a permanent resident.

Hope this helps!

Edit: I believe the safe third country agreement does not apply to people who fly into Canada. It only applies to people who cross the border from the US through other means of transport.

Given the volume of asylum seekers coming from the US that reason is less tolerated. It is mostly an issue when people have spent more than a transit period through the airport. For example if you went to the UK last year for a week and didn't claim asylum you will have to justify how you are in more danger now than last year. Due to the large increase in asylum seekers the mood has slightly changed in Canada. We are also facing an election this year that could also change the government stance on immigration.

 

[canuck78]

Would suggest again that you speak to an immigration lawyer. We have no idea how long you have been working in the gulf but they may have a better idea what are happening to cases where the families are claiming persecution without actually living in their home country for many years. The issue is that they can't get permanent residency status in the countries where they currently live and work.

 

[maddy044]

Given the volume of asylum seekers coming from the US that reason is less tolerated. It is mostly an issue when people have spent more than a transit period through the airport. For example if you went to the UK last year for a week and didn't claim asylum you will have to justify how you are in more danger now than last year. Due to the large increase in asylum seekers the mood has slightly changed in Canada. We are also facing an election this year that could also change the government stance on immigration.

Do you have any credible sources to back your claims? How do you know that reason is less tolerated? No offence intended I’m just curious to know or are these just your opinions?

 

[jddd]

Do you have any credible sources to back your claims? How do you know that reason is less tolerated? No offence intended I’m just curious to know or are these just your opinions?

Hi, I work in an immigration law firm and can definitely attest that it is less tolerated. A lot of claimants who have been rejected due to the same reason has been trying to hire our firm to represent them on appeal. We accept people who we feel may have a chance pro bono if needed. Those who we feel do not stand a chance can pay for our services should they still wish to be represented by us even after we informed them that their chances are slim to none. We have already fought for one appeal who seemed like such a good chance and lost.

It is good to hear that you became a PR and nice for others to know as well but we should always note that every claim is different. We try to give the worst possible scenario to better prepare people. Fact is, once something is abused, it starts to fail. Asylum shopping is fast becoming abused and so more and more fail.

 

[canuck78]

Same as things as claims of asylum due to FGM. FGM and LGBTQ issues are the top reasons for asylum because people have been coached that they will get asylum for those reasons. Many do and some have real claims but there are a lot of false claims. Our current government and rumours spreading through communities have not accurately depicted how difficult it may be to actually get asylum. Now that people realize they can walk across the border we have seen spikes in certain populations claiming asylum. Some meet the definition of needing asylum and others figure this was their shot to try and they won't get deported once they get to Canada. Canadian people are welcoming but once they feel like they are being taken advantage of or once they see asylum seekers getting free housing while low income Canadians suffer people lose patience. Between healthcare, education, welfare, legal aid and housing not to mention processing claims and setting up another informal border crossing the system has become very expensive. Yes some are working but not the majority.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4391228/canada-could-separate-mother-daughter-facing-female-genital-mutilation-sierra-leone/

 

[maddy044]

Hi, I work in an immigration law firm and can definitely attest that it is less tolerated. A lot of claimants who have been rejected due to the same reason has been trying to hire our firm to represent them on appeal. We accept people who we feel may have a chance pro bono if needed. Those who we feel do not stand a chance can pay for our services should they still wish to be represented by us even after we informed them that their chances are slim to none. We have already fought for one appeal who seemed like such a good chance and lost.

It is good to hear that you became a PR and nice for others to know as well but we should always note that every claim is different. We try to give the worst possible scenario to better prepare people. Fact is, once something is abused, it starts to fail. Asylum shopping is fast becoming abused and so more and more fail.

Agreed that asylum shopping is abusive given the claim is fraudulent but I believe if you have the choice and you feel you have a better chance of getting heard in one country compared to the other (again given your claim is genuine) there is nothing wrong or abusive to the system about choosing which country you want to file your refugee claim in. Since I had visas for both the US and Canada and so does the OP it should be up to them where they want to file their claim. Given that, if they fly directly from the country they are fleeing from to Canada this technicality will not be a hindernece. Only because, for eg. last year somebody travelled to the UK and did not file a refugee claim there does not mean their refugee claim is fraudulent/abusive now. In a lot of cases reasons for filing a claim have not been long-standing issues but rather occur right before someone leaves the country where they face those risks.

 

[jddd]

Agreed that asylum shopping is abusive given the claim is fraudulent but I believe if you have the choice and you feel you have a better chance of getting heard in one country compared to the other (again given your claim is genuine) there is nothing wrong or abusive to the system about choosing which country you want to file your refugee claim in. Since I had visas for both the US and Canada and so does the OP it should be up to them where they want to file their claim. Given that, if they fly directly from the country they are fleeing from to Canada this technicality will not be a hindernece. Only because, for eg. last year somebody travelled to the UK and did not file a refugee claim there does not mean their refugee claim is fraudulent/abusive now. In a lot of cases reasons for filing a claim have not been long-standing issues but rather occur right before someone leaves the country where they face those risks.

I was answering your question on personal experiences. I don’t know why this OP thinks he or she has a claim or how strong it is so am not in a position to comment.

I can only give the facts from what I see working in an immigration firm.

 

[Copingwithlife]

Well, in the end, regardless what anyone says, it will be the voters who decide this coming up Fall which direction they want the government to take on immigration. Since Immigration I am sure, will be one of the main topics the opposition will be bringing up
If anyone remembers during the last General Election, the Conservatives were going really far to the Right , now we have the Liberals swinging really far to the Left.
One thing is, that Canadians are very compassionate when people are in need, however, if they feel people are gaming the system, or rules to come here, well, not so much

 

[maddy044]

Well, in the end, regardless what anyone says, it will be the voters who decide this coming up Fall which direction they want the government to take on immigration. Since Immigration I am sure, will be one of the main topics the opposition will be bringing up
If anyone remembers during the last General Election, the Conservatives were going really far to the Right , now we have the Liberals swinging really far to the Left.
One thing is, that Canadians are very compassionate when people are in need, however, if they feel people are gaming the system, or rules to come here, well, not so much

According to statistics Canada benefits greatly from immigration so it’s not just about being compassionate. If Canada wants carpeneters because theres a shortage then they will have to take their share of refugees too. You can argue that there’s too many refugees coming in or too less, depends who you ask. I firmly believe that nobody gives out free lunches. Anything and everything these days is a two way street and everybody weighs their advantages and disadvantages in a given situation. Same with Canada and Canadians. But like you said, the voters will decide this fall which way they want to go. This is a cycle which will keep repeating itself. The pendulum will shift from conservatism to liberalism and vice versa, may stay longer or shorter at either side but will change eventually. If the liberals survive this election they will lose the next, similarly south of the border if trump survives this election the republicans will lose the next. Either way there will always be people that take advantage of the system and that is a human problem regardless of nationality, race, religion let’s not forget America was built on the backs of African slaves and the British invaded anything that had a pulse and drained it so nobody can claim they are holier than thou!

 

[Bornlucky]

According to statistics Canada benefits greatly from immigration so it’s not just about being compassionate. If Canada wants carpeneters because theres a shortage then they will have to take their share of refugees too. You can argue that there’s too many refugees coming in or too less, depends who you ask. I firmly believe that nobody gives out free lunches. Anything and everything these days is a two way street and everybody weighs their advantages and disadvantages in a given situation. Same with Canada and Canadians. But like you said, the voters will decide this fall which way they want to go. This is a cycle which will keep repeating itself. The pendulum will shift from conservatism to liberalism and vice versa, may stay longer or shorter at either side but will change eventually. If the liberals survive this election they will lose the next, similarly south of the border if trump survives this election the republicans will lose the next. Either way there will always be people that take advantage of the system and that is a human problem regardless of nationality, race, religion let’s not forget America was built on the backs of African slaves and the British invaded anything that had a pulse and drained it so nobody can claim they are holier than thou!

You are right, and if we look back it better informs our view of the future.

Canada's immigration processing was shaken thoroughly by the last Conservative majority and intake mechanisms and restrictions were their answers to "issues," but the intake of refugees continues and they are decided at the IRB which is an "arms-length," independent, quasi-judicial body. The Board survived that Government and they're altering their processing to try and be more efficient, and they should be fighting for their existence if they cannot be more responsive to the volumes of undecided refugee cases. It seems clear that they've become sensitive about warehousing case files under this Liberal government.

Politically? It's a hot potato that can burn any major political party no matter how it is handled. We will see in the next election as politicians snag themselves on humanitarianism versus fear.

 

[maddy044]

You are right, and if we look back it better informs our view of the future.

Canada's immigration processing was shaken thoroughly by the last Conservative majority and intake mechanisms and restrictions were their answers to "issues," but the intake of refugees continues and they are decided at the IRB which is an "arms-length," independent, quasi-judicial body. The Board survived that Government and they're altering their processing to try and be more efficient, and they should be fighting for their existence if they cannot be more responsive to the volumes of undecided refugee cases. It seems clear that they've become sensitive about warehousing case files under this Liberal government.

Politically? It's a hot potato that can burn any major political party no matter how it is handled. We will see in the next election as politicians snag themselves on humanitarianism versus fear.

Very well put. The answer always seems to be either dialing down the influx of immigrants/refugees (conservatives) or dialing it up (liberals). It will always be an issue that will polarize Canadians since, when one side is satisfied the other will always be dissatisfied. This is one thing that has no political solution but is a major factor in gaining or losing public favour. It’s similar to the free market where equilibrium will always be the goal but will never really be achieved in true terms.

 

[canuck78]

There's a massive difference between skilled immigrants and refugees claimants.

There are certain refugee populations that have really suceeded in Canada and some that have not. The nature of refugees is that many didn't want to leave their country and culture to come to Canada and had no choice ans aren't really interested in integrating into Canadian culture. Canada has also targetted more vulnerable refugees who often have more children, are less educated, often single parents or have medical needs. If you are illiterate im your own language it will likely be very challenging to learn a new language. Canada has also often implemented systems that they thought would benefit refugee populations and that totally backfired. If you look at the influx of Vietnamese vs Somalis the outcomes are very different (in general). Yes Canada benefits from immigration but those are usually highly skilled and motivated. Many current asylum seekers only want to come to Toronto so 60M in Toronto property taxes are going to put people up in hotels. Many of these families/people arrive in Toronto and expect housing, often for months, versus considering more affordable cities where they could find housing especially when they speak English. Many of our own families immigrated when there was no safety net. Also many of the Canadian homeless people or families don't have access to nicer shelters especially not for months.

I think we can all agree that it would make more sense to put money into processing people faster rather than keeping people waiting forever and using more resources. Unfortunately there are only media stories and stories circulating through communities that claiming asylum in Canada is easy and not that people get refused and are sent home.

We have no idea how long OP has been living and working in the Gulf region. It will certainly make a difference that he is not being actively persecuted and given that he is saying he is making general statement about persecution his travels during the past years will certainly be a factor. In general you will have to show how your life has been in danger ans actually proof that tou have been harmed or threatenned. Also what have you done to try to protect yourself like go to the authorities or move.