I have just converted from Islam to Cristian. But I want to marry my Muslim partner who is in an Islamic country( Malaysia) and by law we can not marry their because I am not Muslim anymore and he is Muslim. I am wonderring if I can bring him to canada so we can marry here with no restriction.
Marriage of non-Muslim woman with a Muslim man
- Thread starter G.M TALA
- Start date
1. I do not know about any law in Malaysia preventing marriage of people of different religion.
2. From the point of Christianity, there is no such requirement either.
3. As for Islam itself, the requirement for wife is to be monotheistic religion (which Christianity is). Then they are allowed to marry such woman.
And in Canada is also no religion restriction when it comes to marriage (just the age restriction and that such act is done knowing the consequences and by a free will).
That's not true in Malaysia. A marriage between Muslims and non-Muslims is prohibited by Islamic Law in Malaysia. There is no way a Muslim can marry a person of another religion.
In fact, a "marriage" would be considered as cohabiting which could result in a number of offences as per the Sharia Law there.
This is not true again. For example, consider Roman Catholics. If one person is a Roman Catholic, whereas the other person is a non-Catholic then they cannot have a full religious Catholic marriage ceremony. This is because marriage is a Holy Sacrament. I know of some cases where special permission was taken from the Vatican to have the ceremony in the Church.
The only option is for the OP to marry in Canada if his partner can get a TRV/visitor visa
Ok I am not sure, but this says the opposite:
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/marriage/interfaith-prohibition.php
For example, section 10 of the Islamic Family Law (Federal Territories) Act 1984 states: “(1) [n]o man shall marry a non-Muslim except a Kitabiyah. (2) No woman shall marry a non-Muslim.”[91] Kitabiyah essentially refers to a “person of the book.” In practice, the marriage of Muslim men to non-Muslim women is also highly restricted due to the definition of who constitutes a Kitabiyah in the legislation:[92]
“Kitabiyah” means –
(a) a woman whose ancestors were from the Bani Ya’qub; or
(b) a Christian woman whose ancestors were Christians before the prophethood of the Prophet Muhammad; or
(c) a Jewess whose ancestors were Jews before the prophethood of the Prophet Isa.[93]
Exception is given to Christians and Jews there. However in the case described above, the problem is not her religion as such but that she converted to that religion. And that will make it impossible.
As for Christianity, asking for special permission does not equal that something is forbidden. In that perspective anybody from visa imposed country could not ever enter Canada, because of permission request.
I'm pretty sure about this. I had spent a number of years in South East Asia, including Malaysia and Singapore. In fact, if you scroll through the link you have posted with specific information about Malaysia, it clearly explains why a marriage between a Muslim and a non-Muslim is prohibited in Malaysia. A Muslim cannot marry as per the Civil Law (Malaysia has two marriage laws).
Marriage in a Church is a Holy Sacrament that is possible only between baptized Catholics (I'm citing Catholics here, and I'm not referring to other types of Christians). Marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic in a Church ceremony requires special permission
Ok in the case state above, the man is Muslim while the woman is non-Muslim (Christian). Without any other information, that does make this marriage possible according to their Islamic family law. It is because there is exception for monotheistic religions there (in this case Christianity and Judaism).
This is possible because according to the same law, children will inherit religion of the father, so they simply do now want to loose followers.
And yes That is what I have already stated above.
The problem there is, that she did convert to Christianity from Islam, and that is what makes it impossible.
http://www2.esyariah.gov.my/esyariah/mal/portalv1/enakmen2011/Eng_act_lib.nsf/b3ac9c218c8efdc4482568310022d8b3/faf1a1a3631f6e63482569810025f106?OpenDocument
This might work in theory. It's not possible to marry in these circumstances in Malaysia. Eventually, the Law of the Land/country is the defining and deciding factor
Not in the case if she has changed her religion, especially if she was Muslim before. It would have worked if she was either from a different country or from a Christian family to begin with. (of course nobody can prove that your family was Christian / Jewish for generations and generations; so all you need is the lack of an opposite proof and I would guess some solemn declaration of your male family member that is approving your marriage, that your family was always Christian / Muslim).
It would also not work if the situation was reversed (she was Muslim and he was not).
The same answer yet again. As per the Family Law in Malaysia, marriage is prohibited between a Muslim and a non-Muslim in Malaysia. The OP's current religion is Christian + his partner is Muslim. Malaysia is pretty strict when it comes to such matters. There's no leeway.
We don't know if the OP is a man or a woman if we want to discuss the 'Kitabiyah' aspect. However, in any case the OP converted from Islam to Christian. Not the converse. So even 'Kitabiyah' does not apply in this case as the OP's ancestors were Muslims and not Christians.
The other option is for the OP to reconvert to Muslim and then marry his/her partner in accordance with the Islamic statutes of the Malaysian Family Law Act.
We can discuss this matter ad infinitum until the cows come home but it isn't going to work for the OP
Does NOT change anything.
You have been missing the key points stated in my previous posts:
1. 'Kitabiyah' is not easy to prove as you might think. It is almost impossible to get proofs going back centuries to prove the ancestors were originally Christian/Jews.
2. The OP converted from Muslim to Christian. OP was not born as a Christian. The OP's ancestors were not Christians. So though the OP is a woman, 'kitabiyah' is ruled out.
3. The Family Marriage Act in Malaysia.... both Civil and Islamic statutes.... prohibit marriage between muslims and non-muslims.
4. Marrying in a full Christian church ceremony is also out of the question. I suggest you go through the Canon Laws for this (applicable to Catholics, of course)
1. This is simply because lack of the paperwork from back then. So what is done instead? I would assume some kind of solemn declaration that is confirmed. The only problem there are "good" neighbours that will witness against you saying something like his grandfather told that his grandfather told him that his grandfather knew that they were not Christians / Jewish back then. Will it be a lie? Most likely yes, but not that anybody can prove the opposite. So in order to prevent such good old neighbours to mess into your affairs, you would have to end up either have lot of influence or to be able to bribe them.
2. This is the only reason why it would not work, but again it depends where is she from. If from Malaysia, then of course it is way too easy to discover her origins. If from somewhere where nobody has any connection with and where she has at least one decent male relative that is Christian as well, then she could still try to play the game. But yes this one would be the real stopper in the case stated above.
3. And no, you are not correct. Technically there is that one exception there in the law. And would you seek a bit online you would find at least 1 case where such marriage was approved. So with that, you cannot stay that something like that it is impossible for a muslim to marry a non-muslim. What is impossible is for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim man in Malaysia.
4. Here you are already assuming a specific type of Christianity. But even if you speak about Roman Catholics (there are Greek Catholics as well), then it is possible (yes full in Church with everything) as long as the permission is granted. And such permission does not have some conditions of specific religion or if it is only valid for a man or for a woman. So no your statement again is technically incorrect.
Glad to see you have been correcting your statements with every new post... based on my posts, of course.
While your arguments on here have been changing/evolving with each new post, mine have remained the same throughout. Your first posts were completely off the mark. They were factually/ legally/ religiously incorrect.
Here's what your first post stated:
We're talking about proofs going back to 6-7th century AD here i.e. the years of Prophet Muhammad.
Again, as the OP is a new Christian, her immediate previous generations are obviously Muslims. So, this line of 'Kitabiyah' proofing is a complete non-starter.
It is incredulous if someone believes it is possible to trace the family ancestry back to pre-Prophet Muhammad times..... before 6-7th century.... especially in a country like Malaysia which has seen a good amount of immigration/assimilation of tribal cultures, diversities, etc through the centuries.
You wrote in your previous post:
If from Malaysia, then of course it is way too easy to discover her origins.
Would be interested in knowing: Where in Malaysia do you recommend the OP can find this "easy" way of discovering her origins?
I encourage you to read my previous posts. Your recent post on Christian marriage ceremony between a Catholic and a non-Catholic is just a rehash of my statements. But, like I said, I'm glad to see your posts are evolving to what I have been saying.
Right from my first post, I distinctly wrote that special permission/written dispensation is required for a full church marriage ceremony between a Catholic and a non-Catholic.
Just so you know:
Even in Greek Catholicism, an inter-religious/ interfaith marriage is not possible without written dispensation
While your arguments on here have been changing/evolving with each new post, mine have remained the same throughout. Your first posts were completely off the mark. They were factually/ legally/ religiously incorrect.
Here's what your first post stated:
Try tracing a family tree/ ancestry chart/ arbre généalogique to the time before Prophet Muhammad. That is the requirement for 'Kitabiyah'. And, this proof must be legally valid.... not a concoction of vivid imagination.... not a false admission.
We're talking about proofs going back to 6-7th century AD here i.e. the years of Prophet Muhammad.
Again, as the OP is a new Christian, her immediate previous generations are obviously Muslims. So, this line of 'Kitabiyah' proofing is a complete non-starter.
Do you really think the OP can trace her origins if she is from Malaysia? Let's not fool our intellectual sensibilities on this one!
It is incredulous if someone believes it is possible to trace the family ancestry back to pre-Prophet Muhammad times..... before 6-7th century.... especially in a country like Malaysia which has seen a good amount of immigration/assimilation of tribal cultures, diversities, etc through the centuries.
You wrote in your previous post:
If from Malaysia, then of course it is way too easy to discover her origins.
Would be interested in knowing: Where in Malaysia do you recommend the OP can find this "easy" way of discovering her origins?
Personally, do you know a non-Muslim who tried marrying a Muslim in Malaysia? Are you aware of the marriage statutes, the Family Law, the religious and cultural practices in Malaysia?
I did not assume that the OP is a Roman Catholic. Purely for this discussion, I considered Roman Catholicism and not other Christian sects.
I encourage you to read my previous posts. Your recent post on Christian marriage ceremony between a Catholic and a non-Catholic is just a rehash of my statements. But, like I said, I'm glad to see your posts are evolving to what I have been saying.
Right from my first post, I distinctly wrote that special permission/written dispensation is required for a full church marriage ceremony between a Catholic and a non-Catholic.
Just so you know:
Even in Greek Catholicism, an inter-religious/ interfaith marriage is not possible without written dispensation