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Please help - Citizenship not granted

koor

Full Member
Jul 5, 2012
29
21
Hello,
Today my wife had her citizenship test which she passed with full marks - 20/20. However, during the interview they refused to grant citizenship saying that since she is an EU citizen they cannot track her departure history but arrival history can. So they asked her to provide other proofs such as tickets, boarding passes (which doesn't have as she didn't know of this situation), hospital and/or clinic visits in Canada etc. She has to submit these proofs then they will decide on citizenship. Could anyone with similar situation share their experience and provide some advice? It will be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
Hello,
Today my wife had her citizenship test which she passed with full marks - 20/20. However, during the interview they refused to grant citizenship saying that since she is an EU citizen they cannot track her departure history but arrival history can. So they asked her to provide other proofs such as tickets, boarding passes (which doesn't have as she didn't know of this situation), hospital and/or clinic visits in Canada etc. She has to submit these proofs then they will decide on citizenship. Could anyone with similar situation share their experience and provide some advice? It will be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
She may need to apply for entry/exit records from every country she has visited in the 5 years before she submitted the application. Failing this, they will probably just issue her with a full Residency Questionnaire and leave it to her to prove physical presence in Canada.
 
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Matut

Full Member
Feb 28, 2018
39
6
Hello,
Today my wife had her citizenship test which she passed with full marks - 20/20. However, during the interview they refused to grant citizenship saying that since she is an EU citizen they cannot track her departure history but arrival history can. So they asked her to provide other proofs such as tickets, boarding passes (which doesn't have as she didn't know of this situation), hospital and/or clinic visits in Canada etc. She has to submit these proofs then they will decide on citizenship. Could anyone with similar situation share their experience and provide some advice? It will be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Try contacting the airlines and provide them with travel dates and ask if they have records of her travel with them in their system(i.e. copies of the airline tickets, etc.). The airlines are required to keep that information for some time at least, not sure for how long. There might be a fee for that service but it still will be less of a headache to get required information thru that route rather than going thru RQ.
 
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rob1345

Full Member
Jul 14, 2014
21
9
Hello,
Today my wife had her citizenship test which she passed with full marks - 20/20. However, during the interview they refused to grant citizenship saying that since she is an EU citizen they cannot track her departure history but arrival history can. So they asked her to provide other proofs such as tickets, boarding passes (which doesn't have as she didn't know of this situation), hospital and/or clinic visits in Canada etc. She has to submit these proofs then they will decide on citizenship. Could anyone with similar situation share their experience and provide some advice? It will be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks!
Can I ask which location she attended her Interview?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,437
3,183
Today my wife had her citizenship test which she passed with full marks - 20/20. However, during the interview they refused to grant citizenship saying that since she is an EU citizen they cannot track her departure history but arrival history can. So they asked her to provide other proofs such as tickets, boarding passes (which doesn't have as she didn't know of this situation), hospital and/or clinic visits in Canada etc. She has to submit these proofs then they will decide on citizenship. Could anyone with similar situation share their experience and provide some advice? It will be greatly appreciated.
NO NEED TO PANIC. Many, many applicants are asked to provide additional information at or after the interview.


In addition to what others have already offered:

Generally the interview conducted at the time of the test is NOT a hearing, not a formal decision-making proceeding, but more a document-verification and information-gathering event. The interviewer is often NOT the Citizenship Officer who makes the decision whether to grant citizenship or not, and even if it happens to be the Citizenship Officer there is rarely a formal decision made in the interview EXCEPT perhaps in a blatantly clear case (example: applicant admits to being charged and convicted of a serious crime, and is thus prohibited from being granted citizenship).

That said, some interviewers will overtly state conclusions. More often they do not. But sometimes the interviewer will indeed explicitly inform the applicant there is a reason why the application will NOT be granted or why it MIGHT NOT be granted.

Even when there is a more or less clear reason for denying the application, most reports suggest the interviewer only hints or suggests or offers the option of withdrawing the application, rather than bluntly declaring the application is to be refused.

I go into the above in detail because what really happened, what was specifically conveyed to your spouse, matters. If the interviewer was explicitly stating they have concluded she did not meet the physical presence requirement, that is a big deal and that suggests a full blown RQ is coming. BUT, frankly, this is unusual enough I apprehend the interviewer's statements were NOT so direct let alone definitive.

This is especially so given the request for additional information and documentation. The request for other proofs suggests a decision is yet to made. And this is indeed a very common post-interview scenario: again, many applicants are asked to provide further information and documentation.


IS THE APPLICATION IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY? (That is, does what happened at the interview indicate the application is likely to be denied?)

This depends on the specific facts in her case. You and her know the facts. She knows whether the dates she provided for the presence calculation were complete and accurate, and how they add up.

Otherwise, in terms of what IRCC's position likely is, the precise manner in which your spouse was asked to provide other proof should offer some indication, some insight, into whether IRCC needs to review additional evidence to verify the facts, or whether IRCC has outright concerns, doubts or suspicions.

Was the request for additional proof just a verbal request? If so, this would suggest there is NOT likely to be a serious problem, just the need to help IRCC verify the information provided. In which case she should provide what she can as soon as she can.

Was the request for additional proof in writing using a specific form? This could be the CIT 0520 form (sometimes referred to as RQ lite) or the CIT 0171 form (known as full-blown RQ), and either may come with other specific requests, such as a specific request for a record of movement from a particular country, or a request for personal reference. Neither means that IRCC is leaning toward refusing the application, let alone has decided to refuse. BUT the CIT 0171 generally signals more concern than the CIT 0520.


IN ANY EVENT, SCORES OF APPLICANTS WERE EU CITIZENS OR RESIDENTS and the absence of passport stamps correlating to trips to Europe has NOT itself been a serious problem let alone a primary reason for questioning the applicant's travel dates. From your post it is not possible to discern whether there is a serious challenge to your spouse's case or not (many, many applicants misread the interviewer's comments or requests).

Obviously, she should make a diligent effort to provide what is requested and in writing explain what she cannot provide and why.

If she is issued CIT 0171, she should make a particularly concerted effort to provide all that is requested AND seriously consider including additional proof of where she lived in Canada, what activities she has engaged in while in Canada, what work or other regularly attended activities she has had in Canada, and if this evidence is weak in any respect, try to provide alternative evidence of being in Canada, of doing things in Canada . . . even if she has to go so far as to provide some credit card information showing her making purchases in Canada.
 
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koor

Full Member
Jul 5, 2012
29
21
She may need to apply for entry/exit records from every country she has visited in the 5 years before she submitted the application. Failing this, they will probably just issue her with a full Residency Questionnaire and leave it to her to prove physical presence in Canada.
Thanks for the advice. We will try to get entry/exit records but not sure if it's going to be easy.
 

koor

Full Member
Jul 5, 2012
29
21
Try contacting the airlines and provide them with travel dates and ask if they have records of her travel with them in their system(i.e. copies of the airline tickets, etc.). The airlines are required to keep that information for some time at least, not sure for how long. There might be a fee for that service but it still will be less of a headache to get required information thru that route rather than going thru RQ.
Thank you for your tips; appreciated. We may have electronic tickets so we will have to dig them out. Meanwhile we have just learned that we can get her medical history from Ontario's health ministry.
 

koor

Full Member
Jul 5, 2012
29
21
NO NEED TO PANIC. Many, many applicants are asked to provide additional information at or after the interview.


In addition to what others have already offered:

Generally the interview conducted at the time of the test is NOT a hearing, not a formal decision-making proceeding, but more a document-verification and information-gathering event. The interviewer is often NOT the Citizenship Officer who makes the decision whether to grant citizenship or not, and even if it happens to be the Citizenship Officer there is rarely a formal decision made in the interview EXCEPT perhaps in a blatantly clear case (example: applicant admits to being charged and convicted of a serious crime, and is thus prohibited from being granted citizenship).

That said, some interviewers will overtly state conclusions. More often they do not. But sometimes the interviewer will indeed explicitly inform the applicant there is a reason why the application will NOT be granted or why it MIGHT NOT be granted.

Even when there is a more or less clear reason for denying the application, most reports suggest the interviewer only hints or suggests or offers the option of withdrawing the application, rather than bluntly declaring the application is to be refused.

I go into the above in detail because what really happened, what was specifically conveyed to your spouse, matters. If the interviewer was explicitly stating they have concluded she did not meet the physical presence requirement, that is a big deal and that suggests a full blown RQ is coming. BUT, frankly, this is unusual enough I apprehend the interviewer's statements were NOT so direct let alone definitive.

This is especially so given the request for additional information and documentation. The request for other proofs suggests a decision is yet to made. And this is indeed a very common post-interview scenario: again, many applicants are asked to provide further information and documentation.


IS THE APPLICATION IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY? (That is, does what happened at the interview indicate the application is likely to be denied?)

This depends on the specific facts in her case. You and her know the facts. She knows whether the dates she provided for the presence calculation were complete and accurate, and how they add up.

Otherwise, in terms of what IRCC's position likely is, the precise manner in which your spouse was asked to provide other proof should offer some indication, some insight, into whether IRCC needs to review additional evidence to verify the facts, or whether IRCC has outright concerns, doubts or suspicions.

Was the request for additional proof just a verbal request? If so, this would suggest there is NOT likely to be a serious problem, just the need to help IRCC verify the information provided. In which case she should provide what she can as soon as she can.

Was the request for additional proof in writing using a specific form? This could be the CIT 0520 form (sometimes referred to as RQ lite) or the CIT 0171 form (known as full-blown RQ), and either may come with other specific requests, such as a specific request for a record of movement from a particular country, or a request for personal reference. Neither means that IRCC is leaning toward refusing the application, let alone has decided to refuse. BUT the CIT 0171 generally signals more concern than the CIT 0520.


IN ANY EVENT, SCORES OF APPLICANTS WERE EU CITIZENS OR RESIDENTS and the absence of passport stamps correlating to trips to Europe has NOT itself been a serious problem let alone a primary reason for questioning the applicant's travel dates. From your post it is not possible to discern whether there is a serious challenge to your spouse's case or not (many, many applicants misread the interviewer's comments or requests).

Obviously, she should make a diligent effort to provide what is requested and in writing explain what she cannot provide and why.

If she is issued CIT 0171, she should make a particularly concerted effort to provide all that is requested AND seriously consider including additional proof of where she lived in Canada, what activities she has engaged in while in Canada, what work or other regularly attended activities she has had in Canada, and if this evidence is weak in any respect, try to provide alternative evidence of being in Canada, of doing things in Canada . . . even if she has to go so far as to provide some credit card information showing her making purchases in Canada.
Thank you for your elaborate reply; much appreciated. Basically my wife was asked why she did not have a visa when she studied there. The answer is EU citizens don't need visa to study in UK. Secondly, he asked where the entry stamps when she visited UK. The answer is EU passports are not stamped but only scanned at the port of entry. So she is given a form, not sure what type, but two things are required according that form; 1. health history from Ontario's ministry of health; and 2. travel records e.g. tickets etc. Luckily she has recovered e-tickets from her email account except for just couple of trips in 2015. However, she is under huge stress. She is given one month to produce these documents.
 
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scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,943
22,181
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Thank you for your elaborate reply; much appreciated. Basically my wife was asked why she did not have a visa when she studied there. The answer is EU citizens don't need visa to study in UK. Secondly, he asked where the entry stamps when she visited UK. The answer is EU passports are not stamped but only scanned at the port of entry. So she is given a form, not sure what type, but two things are required according that form; 1. health history from Ontario's ministry of health; and 2. travel records e.g. tickets etc. Luckily she has recovered e-tickets from her email account except for just couple of trips in 2015. However, she is under huge stress. She is given one month to produce these documents.
Lots of us here have been through this process. I agree it's tight but it's totally doable. In addition to travel and health records, my husband also provided evidence of things like dental / physio appointments, proof of contract work engagements and probably most importantly - credit card statements which showed almost daily transactions for the time he had spent in Canada.
 
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bucajack

Star Member
Apr 2, 2018
177
53
This is strange and worrying. I'm an Irish citizen by birth and I visit Ireland at least once per year along with other EU countries. Our passports are never stamped due to free movement of EU citizens. I say it's strange because I know many EU citizens who have gotten their Canadian citizenship with no issues. It's not like IRCC are not aware of how passports work in the EU.
 

ahass

Full Member
Nov 6, 2013
38
8
Lots of us here have been through this process. I agree it's tight but it's totally doable. In addition to travel and health records, my husband also provided evidence of things like dental / physio appointments, proof of contract work engagements and probably most importantly - credit card statements which showed almost daily transactions for the time he had spent in Canada.
I am in a similar situation. Was asked to provide health records and entry/exit from country of citizenship. In your husband’s case did it help to provide the additional documentation (credit card bills etc)? Has he heard back from them?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,943
22,181
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I am in a similar situation. Was asked to provide health records and entry/exit from country of citizenship. In your husband’s case did it help to provide the additional documentation (credit card bills etc)? Has he heard back from them?
This was a few years ago now. But yes - I definitely think it helped. His citizenship ceremony ended up being scheduled three weeks after IRCC received our evidence package. Our package was very comprehensive and we were able to provide some kind of evidence for almost every day he was in Canada. (Luckily he uses his credit card even for small purchases.)
 

ahass

Full Member
Nov 6, 2013
38
8
This was a few years ago now. But yes - I definitely think it helped. His citizenship ceremony ended up being scheduled three weeks after IRCC received our evidence package. Our package was very comprehensive and we were able to provide some kind of evidence for almost every day he was in Canada. (Luckily he uses his credit card even for small purchases.)
That’s very helpful and relieving. Thanks!
 

koor

Full Member
Jul 5, 2012
29
21
Lots of us here have been through this process. I agree it's tight but it's totally doable. In addition to travel and health records, my husband also provided evidence of things like dental / physio appointments, proof of contract work engagements and probably most importantly - credit card statements which showed almost daily transactions for the time he had spent in Canada.
Thanks for the tips. Unfortunately my wife's credit record won't count as the case officer said because we had a joint account until recently. However, we are pulling together dental and other appointments.