Minor under 18 applying for TRV

[dominik-bcpnp]

Hi there,

My wife and I are preparing for my niece (will be 15 yo at time of travel/my wife's brothers daughter) to visit us in Canada around Christmas 2015.
I have been reading posts on this forum for the last few days and I am very hopeful to receive valuable information from you guys.

Fist of all, a little introduction into our case, for it is somewhat different from most.

We moved to Canada from Germany in 2013. Now we are BC PNP nominees and have applied for PR. Medicals are done and after speaking to a guy from Immigration two days ago, I have a very positive feeling about getting our PR within the next month or so. Of course I could be wrong, but just assuming I ain't.

We also have just had an addition to our little family. Our daughter was born a Canadian citizen through birth right on soil in January.
Therefore we are an all mixed family in terms of nationality (German, Indonesian, Canadian) and status in the country (awaiting PR, citizen)

Hope that gives you sufficient information about our situation.

Now...

My niece, who lives in Indonesia (Indonesian citizen), would love to come over to catch up with us, especially with our four year old daughter, and of course to meet her new born cousin for the first time. She also expressed her wish to see snow. Taking all that, and the approximate time of preparation of all the documents, into consideration, we were thinking to get her over here for about three weeks during indonesian school brake in December.
I wanna get that right the first time. She's so looking forward, and I don't wanna have her disappointed by a refusal. Of course I know, that it is a possible outcome.

My main questions are:

- how much less likely would it be for her, to have her visa granted, if she applies while we are still temporary residents? Compared to, once we are PR?

-as she is a minor not only under 18, but under 16, does she have the option to apply for her TRV online? More precisely. Could her parents still open a my cic account and apply on her behalf, even though they won't be traveling with her? If they could, there is the problem that they don't speak english. Or could we apply on her behalf? We are not her legal guardians, therefore I assume we are in no position to do so.

- does her Canadian, two month old, cousin count as a Canadian family member for visa purposes. My daughter obviously can not sponsor my niece, so not sure about the immigrations point of view on that.

- we are covering all her travel expenses, accommodation, food, winter cloth and so on. I will get her a travel health insurance for her trip as well. I'll write all that down in the invitation letter.
Does it still matter, if she/her parents are financially in a position to support her trip?

I appreciate every bit and piece of information related to my nieces planed trip.

Thanks in advance for any input on this.

 

[Jalex23]

- how much less likely would it be for her, to have her visa granted, if she applies while we are still temporary residents? Compared to, once we are PR?

It is not too important your situation. What is important is hers.

-as she is a minor not only under 18, but under 16, does she have the option to apply for her TRV online? More precisely. Could her parents still open a my cic account and apply on her behalf, even though they won't be traveling with her? If they could, there is the problem that they don't speak english. Or could we apply on her behalf? We are not her legal guardians, therefore I assume we are in no position to do so.

Use the tool:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/eligibility.asp

- does her Canadian, two month old, cousin count as a Canadian family member for visa purposes. My daughter obviously can not sponsor my niece, so not sure about the immigrations point of view on that.

No

- we are covering all her travel expenses, accommodation, food, winter cloth and so on. I will get her a travel health insurance for her trip as well. I'll write all that down in the invitation letter.
Does it still matter, if she/her parents are financially in a position to support her trip?

Yes of course. Again your invitation and support adds to the case but it is irrelevant if she can't show ties/means/etc. as the main applicant she is.


A word of advice: as she is not your dependant then you can prove anything you want but that is secondary and will never replace how her parents and her present their case. In fact be careful on showing how good your situation is compared to her own family as it can give the wrong impression that she has more reasons to stay in Canada than to go back to her home country.

 

[dominik-bcpnp]

Thanks for your reply Jelex. I used the tool in the link. It says "you may be eligible to come to Canada as a tourist/visitor". I had used it before and got the same result. I am just still not sure, if she can apply online. As far as I understand, you can't register a MyCIC ID if you are under 16 years of age. Or did I misunderstand that requirement?
As soon as you go to the actual MyCIC page, to sign up, they say you have to be over 16. I did my wife's TRV for her first visit here. Was a different situation though. She applied from Germany as a permanent resident of Germany. And she was main applicant, my daughter went through on my wife's MyCIC ID.
So is it her Dad/Mom, who has to sign up to MyCIC? As mentioned, they are not accompanying. Is it still possible for them to let her go through under their ID. Or am I better off, going with a paper application?

Regarding "her case". It sounds reasonable what you said about not making it sound like, she doesn't have a reason to return.
But don't I need to make myself absolutely clear on the fact, that she will be cared for as good as possible here?

I don't wanna make this the story of my life here. Sorry if it sounds like it But...

We are thinking about, bringing her over to live with us/close to us, once she is done with education in Indonesia. But that still takes at least another 3 years (high school). More likely even 6 years (college). Her english is rather basic, so we don't want to let her go through a major change, while in school. I think that would do her the exact opposite of a favour. She has always been very close to us, so we will try to provide her with the best possible future. Do you think I should mention my thoughts on that and our future plans, when we apply? Or would that rather lower her chances. Because "family ties to Canada and home country" this and that?

At last...

You said it is about her case. Well, she doesn't have any mentionable amount of money by her self. She is just a child. She doesn't even have a bank account and I don't think, she could even open one.
So I would assume, that in her case the CIC guys should be ok with me/my wife being her sponsors, right? I mean we are the custodians. Am I thinking straight, or do you think I'm going into the wrong direction there???

 

[Jalex23]

Thanks for your reply Jelex. I used the tool in the link. It says "you may be eligible to come to Canada as a tourist/visitor". I had used it before and got the same result. I am just still not sure, if she can apply online. As far as I understand, you can't register a MyCIC ID if you are under 16 years of age. Or did I misunderstand that requirement?
As soon as you go to the actual MyCIC page, to sign up, they say you have to be over 16.

The tool regulates all this. If you can't create an account, then the person is not eligible. There is no hidden meaning on this.

So is it her Dad/Mom, who has to sign up to MyCIC? As mentioned, they are not accompanying. Is it still possible for them to let her go through under their ID. Or am I better off, going with a paper application?

If parents can't do it then a legal representative. Do more research on the subject.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/representative.asp

Regarding "her case". It sounds reasonable what you said about not making it sound like, she doesn't have a reason to return.
But don't I need to make myself absolutely clear on the fact, that she will be cared for as good as possible here??

Yes. Nonetheless CIC wants evidence that a child has everything covered in case you can't perform what you said.

We are thinking about, bringing her over to live with us/close to us, once she is done with education in Indonesia. But that still takes at least another 3 years (high school). More likely even 6 years (college). Her english is rather basic, so we don't want to let her go through a major change, while in school. I think that would do her the exact opposite of a favour. She has always been very close to us, so we will try to provide her with the best possible future. Do you think I should mention my thoughts on that and our future plans, when we apply? Or would that rather lower her chances. Because "family ties to Canada and home country" this and that?

Kind of a grey area. Don't volunteer information, don't hide information. I would say this is kind of high risk as you can set doubt in whether she might stay illegally.

You said it is about her case. Well, she doesn't have any mentionable amount of money by her self. She is just a child. She doesn't even have a bank account and I don't think, she could even open one.

She is a dependant of her parents so her parents should build up the case. If parents are missing then legal guardians.

So I would assume, that in her case the CIC guys should be ok with me/my wife being her sponsors, right? I mean we are the custodians. Am I thinking straight, or do you think I'm going into the wrong direction there???

She does have parents, right? What do you mean by custodian? Do you have any legal documents that prove that?

No, you having the means is not enough.

 

[dominik-bcpnp]

Hi guys. Just wanted to update this post. I have spoken to immigration about our/my nieces case. They (in fact she) had plenty of valuable information for me, that I'd like to share as advise to others, that might share my confusion.

1. A minor under 16 can NOT register their own MyCIC account. Therefore they can NOT apply for an online TRV by themselves. However, that does not mean, they can't apply for a TRV online at all. One of her parents, preferably the one that is blood related to the familiy member in Canada (if that applies), can open a MyCIC account and apply for a TRV on behalf of a family member. Even if that parent will not travel with the child. So to clarify that, the online tool, that helps determine eligibility, does not automatically regulate the eligibility to apply an online TRV and the inability to open a MyCIC account. It tells you, that the child is eligible, because it is. If the child tries to open an account, it doesn't get anywhere. Because minors under 16 are not allowed to do so.

2. It makes an elementary difference, if I am PR or just a temporary resident on a WP. My nieces chances to have her TRV granted, as long as her relatives in Canada reside on a work permit, are very slim. Once we are PR it's no big deal, if...we meet certain requirements.

3. Support letters, invitation letters, declarations, and so on, are neither considered legal documents nor evidence as such. When applying for a minor that intends to travel solitary, it is advisable (though she said not necessary) to prepare such documents as an affidavit. It definitely increases the chances to be granted a TRV. I would guess, it multiplies them, as CIC holds evidence against you, if you fall short of your promises.

4. The invitation letter and the parental declaration should include a clear statement, of the child's intention to return to her home country. As these documents should be affidavits, it's binding.

5. Last but not least - ability to financially support the child while in Canada. As mentioned above, your support letters should be affidavits. How much money you need to earn, or you have to have on your bank account, depends on the length of stay and on how much you commit to. But if inviting a minor under 16, that obviously has no means to support herself, you should be committed to "full support". Means you need to clearly state in your invitation letter, that neither the child, nor her parents, are expected to carry any of the costs. Neither travel nor accomodation nor food nor clothing, etc. The clearer you are on this, the better.
In our case, we only invite our niece for 3 weeks. So the immigration officer told me, my income SHOULD (everyone knows, that they give no warranties) be more then enough, to guarantee full support for my niece while she is here. The LICO chart only applies for supervisa applications. BUT, if I intend to invite a minor for a longer period of time, it is definitely beneficial if I meet the LICO for my own family size, plus one other person (the invited minor). Mainly because, the child will be considered temporarily residing und Canada. Rather than just visiting. Here again, it's no official requirement, but advisable. I am just below the LICO for a family of five.
So I'm not sure, what my chances would be, to ever invite her for several months. But I'm pretty confident about the three weeks. A least after what the immigration officer told me. Just need to wait for PR. If it comes in time, I'll bring my niece over for Christmas.

 

[Megababajo]

Hi guys. Just wanted to update this post. I have spoken to immigration about our/my nieces case. They (in fact she) had plenty of valuable information for me, that I'd like to share as advise to others, that might share my confusion.

1. A minor under 16 can NOT register their own MyCIC account. Therefore they can NOT apply for an online TRV by themselves. However, that does not mean, they can't apply for a TRV online at all. One of her parents, preferably the one that is blood related to the familiy member in Canada (if that applies), can open a MyCIC account and apply for a TRV on behalf of a family member. Even if that parent will not travel with the child. So to clarify that, the online tool, that helps determine eligibility, does not automatically regulate the eligibility to apply an online TRV and the inability to open a MyCIC account. It tells you, that the child is eligible, because it is. If the child tries to open an account, it doesn't get anywhere. Because minors under 16 are not allowed to do so.

2. It makes an elementary difference, if I am PR or just a temporary resident on a WP. My nieces chances to have her TRV granted, as long as her relatives in Canada reside on a work permit, are very slim. Once we are PR it's no big deal, if...we meet certain requirements.

3. Support letters, invitation letters, declarations, and so on, are neither considered legal documents nor evidence as such. When applying for a minor that intends to travel solitary, it is advisable (though she said not necessary) to prepare such documents as an affidavit. It definitely increases the chances to be granted a TRV. I would guess, it multiplies them, as CIC holds evidence against you, if you fall short of your promises.

4. The invitation letter and the parental declaration should include a clear statement, of the child's intention to return to her home country. As these documents should be affidavits, it's binding.

5. Last but not least - ability to financially support the child while in Canada. As mentioned above, your support letters should be affidavits. How much money you need to earn, or you have to have on your bank account, depends on the length of stay and on how much you commit to. But if inviting a minor under 16, that obviously has no means to support herself, you should be committed to "full support". Means you need to clearly state in your invitation letter, that neither the child, nor her parents, are expected to carry any of the costs. Neither travel nor accomodation nor food nor clothing, etc. The clearer you are on this, the better.
In our case, we only invite our niece for 3 weeks. So the immigration officer told me, my income SHOULD (everyone knows, that they give no warranties) be more then enough, to guarantee full support for my niece while she is here. The LICO chart only applies for supervisa applications. BUT, if I intend to invite a minor for a longer period of time, it is definitely beneficial if I meet the LICO for my own family size, plus one other person (the invited minor). Mainly because, the child will be considered temporarily residing und Canada. Rather than just visiting. Here again, it's no official requirement, but advisable. I am just below the LICO for a family of five.
So I'm not sure, what my chances would be, to ever invite her for several months. But I'm pretty confident about the three weeks. A least after what the immigration officer told me. Just need to wait for PR. If it comes in time, I'll bring my niece over for Christmas.

Hi there, I am just reading your post and its quite similar to mine. Wanted to know if you have been able to bring your niece into Canada.

In my case, I also intend for her to visit for some weeks and try to get her into school, then apply for study permit. My main concern is that after three years on study permit, can she apply for PR?

 

[canuck78]

Hi there, I am just reading your post and its quite similar to mine. Wanted to know if you have been able to bring your niece into Canada.

In my case, I also intend for her to visit for some weeks and try to get her into school, then apply for study permit. My main concern is that after three years on study permit, can she apply for PR?

Your plan will not work. If you want to attempt to get a study permit for your niece you should be doing it in advance. It will take a few months. If your niece does get approved for TRV she can't just join school. You will also have to go through the process of showing who will pay her $15000 tuition, who will be the custodian and guardian. Is she a minor? After 3 years of studying in Canada (post secondary) it only allows you to get a PGWP. You then have to work in an appropriate field and be able to apply through one of the PR programs. If you study in Canada you are not guaranteed PR.

 

[Buletruck]

Just to emphasize, the PGWP is only available to post secondary education. Graduating from “High school” won’t get you one.