Case Analyst made a mistake or Express Entry system bug ?

[cherti]

I created my profile on December 2017 and got ITA. But I declined the ITA because I could not get a particular work experience document on time. So I was back in the pool.

UPDATE:
I didnt decline the ITA, I accepted it, I filled it half way thru and then withdrew the application when I realized I could not get the documents.

I removed that particular work experience from the profile for which I coudn't get documents and consequently my points got lowered. But I compensated for it by taking a new IELTS test and got ITA again on April 2018 under the same Express Entry profile number and I submitted my application.

Now the weird phase starts, I am not sure if the Case Analyst was smoking weed or if it is a system bug. Read on.

After 5 months of no progress, I ordered GCMS notes and what was written on GCMS notes was very weird.

The first notes by Program Analyst was good, like R10 checks and documents are all OK.

Now the second note by "Case Analyst" says "Review required, I DO NOT SEE WORK EXPERIENCE LETTER FOR THE EMPLOYER XXXXXXX" , POINTS AT TIME OF ITA 489 CUTOFF 446, SINCE I DONT SEE WORK EXPERIENCE LETTER, POINTS REDUCED TO 439, SO CANDIDATE DO NOT SATISFY MINIMUM ELIGIBILITY

After reading this note, I was spellbound. Because for some reason, its clear that the case analyst is reviewing my old Express Entry application details which I declined Updated: ( withdrew, not decline ) for not having the very same letter. (the new one do not have this employer at all).

Why is the case analyst reviewing my old application which I declined Updated: ( withdrew, not decline ) ? He should have reviewed my current application in which I improved my score with the new language tests. Either the case analyst is smoking weed or this is a system bug which is mixing my old application with the current one.

I raise a CSE for this and got a canned response "Everything is fine with your application". Called Agent, but they insist that the case analyst is right. Somehow they don't understand that the case analyst is seeing my old application even though I tried a lot to explain slowly and clearly. So no dice there.

The funny thing is, my application is not rejected yet even after 6 months. What do I do now ? Wait for rejection and go for judicial review ? Cancel & reapply again with a brand new profile (lose my application fees?) Or is this how Express Entry works, that they consider old one even though we have declined Updated: ( withdrew, not decline ) it ?

I am clearly at odds what to do next. If the system is mixing up old profile with the new one, then this bug will affect a lot of innocent applicants and will delay their application.

@jes_ON @Asiv adanac @legalfalcon Have you ever come across a case like this ?

 

[Asiv adanac]

I created my profile on December 2017 and got ITA. But I declined the ITA because I could not get a particular work experience document on time. So I was back in the pool.

I removed that particular work experience from the profile for which I coudn't get documents and consequently my points got lowered. But I compensated for it by taking a new IELTS test and got ITA again on April 2018 under the same Express Entry profile number and I submitted my application.

Now the weird phase starts, I am not sure if the Case Analyst was smoking weed or if it is a system bug. Read on.

After 5 months of no progress, I ordered GCMS notes and what was written on GCMS notes was very weird.

The first notes by Program Analyst was good, like R10 checks and documents are all OK.

Now the second note by "Case Analyst" says "Review required, I DO NOT SEE WORK EXPERIENCE LETTER FOR THE EMPLOYER XXXXXXX" , POINTS AT TIME OF ITA 489 CUTOFF 446, SINCE I DONT SEE WORK EXPERIENCE LETTER, POINTS REDUCED TO 439, SO CANDIDATE DO NOT SATISFY MINIMUM ELIGIBILITY

After reading this note, I was spellbound. Because for some reason, its clear that the case analyst is reviewing my old Express Entry application details which I declined for not having the very same letter. (the new one do not have this employer at all).

Why is the case analyst reviewing my old application which I declined ? He should have reviewed my current application in which I improved my score with the new language tests. Either the case analyst is smoking weed or this is a system bug which is mixing my old application with the current one.

I raise a CSE for this and got a canned response "Everything is fine with your application". Called Agent, but they insist that the case analyst is right. Somehow they don't understand that the case analyst is seeing my old application even though I tried a lot to explain slowly and clearly. So no dice there.

The funny thing is, my application is not rejected yet even after 6 months. What do I do now ? Wait for rejection and go for judicial review ? Cancel & reapply again with a brand new profile (lose my application fees?) Or is this how Express Entry works, that they consider old one even though we have declined it ?

I am clearly at odds what to do next. If the system is mixing up old profile with the new one, then this bug will affect a lot of innocent applicants and will delay their application.

@jes_ON @Asiv adanac @legalfalcon Have you ever come across a case like this ?

Hi there, I understand that you are pretty much upset. And I sorry about it..
There are few things I 'd like to check with you regarding your situation..
1) u created your express entry profile and received your first ITA, then you declined it becuz of certain issues as mentioned by you. So according to my understanding, you did not fill up your PR application form nor did you submit it the first time. --Am I correct?

Technically , there would be no application sent the first time from your end, nor would it be in the system because you declined your ITA (although you may get to see it in your express entry account, just incase u had filled up that PR apllication and declined the invite later on.) Since such an application was never transmitted in the first place , the agent can not access nor be able to view it. Are you sure that you din't accidentally transmit the details of this formerly filled PR application after uploading all the latest documents against the wrong application ?

2) Since you declined your ITA the first time, you were back into the pool which is as per the normal process.
Did you ensure to remove that work exp (which u had hassles with) from the express entry employment history? Are you 100% sure about removing it?
There would be no hassles involved if u had removed it and mentioned about it later in your 10 years (or after 18 years of age ) personal records/ history..

If you missed out to change ur express entry details regarding employment history and made necessary changes in your PR application form, did u ensure to include and upload a clear letter of explanation regarding that along with your employment documents?

When you raised the CSE, the officers would just check if all the documents as required by them are in place and would revert in par to it.

Concerned officers or departments can only access your file, with what you declare on it , once you electronically transmit them.

The agent with whom you spoke with, gave his/her comments, remarks or suggestions based on the gcsm notes as that's all the information that they have got with them on their screen and nothing more.

 

[cherti]

Hi there, I understand that you are pretty much upset. And I sorry about it..
There are few things I 'd like to check with you regarding your situation..
1) u created your express entry profile and received your first ITA, then you declined it becuz of certain issues as mentioned by you. So according to my understanding, you did not fill up your PR application form nor did you submit it the first time. --Am I correct?


Technically , there would be no application sent the first time from your end, nor would it be in the system because you declined your ITA (although you may get to see it in your express entry account, just incase u had filled up that PR apllication and declined the invite later on.) Since such an application was never transmitted in the first place , the agent can not access nor be able to view it. Are you sure that you din't accidentally transmit the details of this formerly filled PR application after uploading all the latest documents against the wrong application ?

> Thank you, your questions made me think about the steps now. I take back what I said in my original post because I remember the exact flow now. So I didn't decline the invite, I did accept it, filled it halfway thru and realized I will not get the letter, so I withdrew the application.
So this might have saved the entry in the system because after filling it half way thru I withdrew the application.

2) Since you declined your ITA the first time, you were back into the pool which is as per the normal process.
Did you ensure to remove that work exp (which u had hassles with) from the express entry employment history? Are you 100% sure about removing it?
There would be no hassles involved if u had removed it and mentioned about it later in your 10 years (or after 18 years of age ) personal records/ history..

> I do have screenshots of all the pages before I submitted the application. I am sure this employer was not mentioned in work experience, but I did mention in the personal records which should not be a problem.

If you missed out to change ur express entry details regarding employment history and made necessary changes in your PR application form, did u ensure to include and upload a clear letter of explanation regarding that along with your employment documents?

> There was no need of it, because I did not include this work experience in my second attempt and by the screenshots I saved, I am sure that this work experience was not included.

When you raised the CSE, the officers would just check if all the documents as required by them are in place and would revert in par to it.

Concerned officers or departments can only access your file, with what you declare on it , once you electronically transmit them.

> So this might be because, I withdrew the application. Why I am sure that the agent is seeing my old application is because of the two conflicting notes.
The first notes clearly says my points are 449, cut off is 446 and documents are ok , R10 pass.
Now the second notes says, my points are 489 !!, cut off is 446 and since I do not have that letter, reduced 50 points to 439 and says review required.

So this two conflicting notes by two different people is what made me think that the second agent is seeing my old profile which infact had 489 points.

The agent with whom you spoke with, gave his/her comments, remarks or suggestions based on the gcsm notes as that's all the information that they have got with them on their screen and nothing more.

 

[Asiv adanac]

Just so that we don't get mixed up, please guide me with the below

First ITA draw score -??
Your score with that employment history-??
Were u given a UCI code (unique client identifier code)- ? Yes/ No


Second ITA draw score -??
Your score with higher ielts ??
Were u given a UCI code (unique client identifier code)- ? Yes/ No

Note -: UCI Codes will never be the same if applications are sent on different instances.

 

[cherti]

Just so that we don't get mixed up, please guide me with the below

First ITA draw score - 489 , I do not remember what the cutoff was.
Your score with that employment history- 489 ,

Second ITA draw score - 449 , cut off was 446.
Your score with higher ielts 449

After withdrawing application and removing that employer, score dropped from 489 to 439, so no ITA for some months. Then improved my score by new IELTS test which gave me +10. So score became 449 from 439 and got an ITA.

 

[Asiv adanac]

You can be
How about UCI Codes? How many UCI Codes u got?

 

[cherti]

You can be

How about UCI Codes? How many UCI Codes u got?

Just 1.

1 UCI, 1 Express Entry profile number. 2 case notes, 1st officer (Program analyst) review sees correct score R10 OK,
2nd officer (Case Analyst) sees old scores.

What a weird situation to be in. , Probably shouldn't have used the same application/profile despite what CIC says. Or maybe the system the officer sees is showing him the full history and probably he is a rookie or due to lack to sleep, he reviewed the old application which was withdrawn. I do not find any other reasonable explanation that a clerical error or system bug.

 

[Asiv adanac]

Just 1.

1 UCI, 1 Express Entry profile number. 2 case notes, 1st officer (Program analyst) review sees correct score R10 OK,
2nd officer (Case Analyst) sees old scores.

What a weird situation to be in. , Probably shouldn't have used the same application/profile despite what CIC says. Or maybe the system the officer sees is showing him the full history and probably he is a rookie or due to lack to sleep, he reviewed the old application which was withdrawn. I do not find any other reasonable explanation that a clerical error or system bug.

Withdrawing an express entry profile from an ITA is declining an invite. This means your PR application form was never electronically transmitted, nor did u pay the 550 Cad + rprf 490 Cad the first time and thereby u never had a UCI issued to you the first time when u had scores of 489.
Any application that was not electronically transmitted nor paid for will never enter or refelect into the system of the officers although you can see it in your CIC account profile.

The r10 officer just reviews if all documents reqd are in place. A completeness check.
The second officer goes thru integrities in detail . It is in here that they in detail compare and check eligibility for PR by comparing it with the PR application vs the express entry profile. The invite was given as per the contents on the express entry profile and deviations with the ee profile, PR application,and uploaded docs will cause review reqd.

What's your stream? Whats it noc ? Which country u applying from?

I agree with u that, you gotten yourself into one fine mess this time and let's hope that u get it fixed..

 

[cherti]

Withdrawing an express entry profile from an ITA is declining an invite. This means your PR application form was never electronically transmitted, nor did u pay the 550 Cad + rprf 490 Cad the first time and thereby u never had a UCI issued to you the first time when u had scores of 489.
Any application that was not electronically transmitted nor paid for will never enter or refelect into the system of the officers although you can see it in your CIC account profile.

The r10 officer just reviews if all documents reqd are in place. A completeness check.
The second officer goes thru integrities in detail . It is in here that they in detail compare and check eligibility for PR by comparing it with the PR application vs the express entry profile. The invite was given as per the contents on the express entry profile and deviations with the ee profile, PR application,and uploaded docs will cause review reqd.

What's your stream? Whats it noc ? Which country u applying from?

I agree with u that, you gotten yourself into one fine mess this time and let's hope that u get it fixed..

I already have an existing UCI because I am in temporary working visa in Canada currently.

The application is already saved even if withdrawn because all those entries are present in gcms notes marked as "obsolete"

 

[HarrisZhou]

Hi cherti, sorry to hear your updates. Did you raise a cse to explain your situation? Any how it the quebec concern in your gcms notes, has it been solved?

 

[cherti]

Hi cherti, sorry to hear your updates. Did you raise a cse to explain your situation? Any how it the quebec concern in your gcms notes, has it been solved?

Yes I have raised multiple CSE pointing out this problem. This is like adding insult over injury. So now I have two problems, Québec residency and officer screwed up the review. Probably have to take them to court for this.

But I am hoping some officer who has some intelligence will find this problem and fix it.

CIC has a huge problem of unqualified people working for them. I thought there was enough McDs for unskilled people to find work rather than joining CIC and screwing with people's future.

Who knows how many applications were screwed up like this ?

 

[HarrisZhou]

good luck. Personally I think you can consider move back your country or move to ontario with a visitor visa to pass through this challenge.

 

[cherti]

good luck. Personally I think you can consider move back your country or move to ontario with a visitor visa to pass through this challenge.

Not a problem for me. My employer is very supportive, they have filed LMIA to renew my work permit for the next 3 years. So I will wait for CIC to finalize and if they reject, I will take it to court because its clearly their mistake. Bonus if I can ask them for compensation for lost job opportunities and personal troubles because of this.

 

[HarrisZhou]

Not a problem for me. My employer is very supportive, they have filed LMIA to renew my work permit for the next 3 years. So I will wait for CIC to finalize and if they reject, I will take it to court because its clearly their mistake. Bonus if I can ask them for compensation for lost job opportunities and personal troubles because of this.

Hi Cherti, I have some info for you, hope it can help you with the quebec residence concern
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2016/2016fc131/2016fc131.html

 

[jes_ON]

Just 1.

1 UCI, 1 Express Entry profile number. 2 case notes, 1st officer (Program analyst) review sees correct score R10 OK,
2nd officer (Case Analyst) sees old scores.

What a weird situation to be in. , Probably shouldn't have used the same application/profile despite what CIC says. Or maybe the system the officer sees is showing him the full history and probably he is a rookie or due to lack to sleep, he reviewed the old application which was withdrawn. I do not find any other reasonable explanation that a clerical error or system bug.

Can you please explain what you mean by "withdrawn"? In IRCC-speak, you you only withdraw an application that has already been submitted. Did you submit an application? Or did you simply not "submit" after you accepted the ITA? Or did you decline after you accepted?

Not sure it matters, but the your use of "withdrawn" is throwing me, since it sounds like you did not actually submit an application.

The other thing I was going to mention - not sure if it is still true, but GCMS notes used to be quite confusing, as each update would essentially repeat the same information (with one or two changes) and it wasn't always easy to figure out what was the old and what was the newest set of notes. Hopefully it is better now, but perhaps try applying for your GCMS notes again and see if they have been updated/corrected.