Daily commute (Detroit-Windsor) (H1b and Canada PR)

[skarme312]

Thanks for the post. My situation. Have been on H1b since 2013 with I140 approved. I got my canadian PR last year. I just got an offer from a company in Detroit. I have been reading these posts and residency requirements. I think the following questions may be on several folks' mind.

1) What implication does daily commute have on PR renewal? Are there any delays there?
2) What about when applying for citizenship?
3) Has anyone successfully renewed PR while having H1B and canada PR (and later got citizenship) without much hassle? I really like to hear from someone who has.

My fear is that doing all of this may be futile if it significantly delays your application...

 

[gtvisa2020]

As I get closer to make the move, I am having last minute jitters.

If our end goal is to be here in the U.S (after all that's why we are doing this daily commute), why do we move at all? I know at some distant future there may be a problem with H1 extension, but does it make sense to obsess about something that has ~50% probability of happening (H1 issue) as opposed to enjoying what is reality now 100% - a job with moderate satisfaction, friends and places that you are used to for years? What if, some of us would have never had any issues with U.S immigration if we stayed?

In sum, I get the "look for your future cheese before your current pile has become zero." but when it does it become "all I do in life is looking for future pile of cheese, while hurriedly gazing my current pile without enjoying it?"

Put it another way, we are all moderately intelligent people (not to pat ourselves on the back), wouldn't we figure something out to live a happy life even if H1 extensions are denied?

Just wanted to see whether this issue is real or are we all just reflecting echo chambers of our community. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[skarme312]

As I get closer to make the move, I am having last minute jitters.

If our end goal is to be here in the U.S (after all that's why we are doing this daily commute), why do we move at all? I know at some distant future there may be a problem with H1 extension, but does it make sense to obsess about something that has ~50% probability of happening (H1 issue) as opposed to enjoying what is reality now 100% - a job with moderate satisfaction, friends and places that you are used to for years? What if, some of us would have never had any issues with U.S immigration if we stayed?

In sum, I get the "look for your future cheese before your current pile has become zero." but when it does it become "all I do in life is looking for future pile of cheese, while hurriedly gazing my current pile without enjoying it?"

Put it another way, we are all moderately intelligent people (not to pat ourselves on the back), wouldn't we figure something out to live a happy life even if H1 extensions are denied?

Just wanted to see whether this issue is real or are we all just reflecting echo chambers of our community. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Personally I don't think my true intent is to move back to USA. If jobs were as easy to get in Canada (in my field) I would happily move. But as I've seen for the past one year, you apply and hear nothing. Not sure if employers in Canada prefer to hire through references only. For now only cross border commute seems to be the best solution. I'm yet to hear from someone who has successfully been doing that for years and got his/her citizenship, etc. That would be more assuring.

 

[DEEPCUR]

As I get closer to make the move, I am having last minute jitters.

If our end goal is to be here in the U.S (after all that's why we are doing this daily commute), why do we move at all? I know at some distant future there may be a problem with H1 extension, but does it make sense to obsess about something that has ~50% probability of happening (H1 issue) as opposed to enjoying what is reality now 100% - a job with moderate satisfaction, friends and places that you are used to for years? What if, some of us would have never had any issues with U.S immigration if we stayed?

In sum, I get the "look for your future cheese before your current pile has become zero." but when it does it become "all I do in life is looking for future pile of cheese, while hurriedly gazing my current pile without enjoying it?"

Put it another way, we are all moderately intelligent people (not to pat ourselves on the back), wouldn't we figure something out to live a happy life even if H1 extensions are denied?

Just wanted to see whether this issue is real or are we all just reflecting echo chambers of our community. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Dude, are you moving to Detroit, and planning Windsor commute or moving to Canada itself for a job?

 

[gtvisa2020]

Dude, are you moving to Detroit, and planning Windsor commute or moving to Canada itself for a job?

I moving to St Catharines area with same employer (under Canada payroll) with a condition that once a month I will visit US office down south for meetings.

 

[gtvisa2020]

If jobs were as easy to get in Canada (in my field) I would happily move.

This is essentially what I am getting at. If all your future job prospects are in the U.S what benefit is to have Canadian citizenship? Especially the probability of H1 extension getting denied is less than 100%?

In other words, why go through this cross border hopping when there is no issue right NOW and potential future issue is not 100% probable?

 

[Cubicrootofthee]

This is essentially what I am getting at. If all your future job prospects are in the U.S what benefit is to have Canadian citizenship? Especially the probability of H1 extension getting denied is less than 100%?

In other words, why go through this cross border hopping when there is no issue right NOW and potential future issue is not 100% probable?

Thanks for starting this. I am almost a year away from moving anyway (just for CoPR). But I have this discussion with a wife and friends with every so often. "If jobs were plentiful", "we're going to have to leave almost all that we worked for" etc keep coming up. To be honest, I am open got an adventure as long as there are decent paying jobs. I am not greedy for my US salary either.
The advantage I see on moving and taking up Canadian citizenship (assuming certain things hold out in the long run):
1. Healthcare after you retire. Your savings won't be eaten up. I have this feeling that no matter how much you save up, lifestyle diseases will plague us all and eat into anything you've saved if you stay in the US.
2. A place to call home (I personally don't think I can work in India).
3. Sponsoring parents if such a need arises.

I still monitor this thread because I am also not certain about the first requirement: plethora of jobs (even if not paying too much).

 

[DEEPCUR]

Thanks for starting this. I am almost a year away from moving anyway (just for CoPR). But I have this discussion with a wife and friends with every so often. "If jobs were plentiful", "we're going to have to leave almost all that we worked for" etc keep coming up. To be honest, I am open got an adventure as long as there are decent paying jobs. I am not greedy for my US salary either.
The advantage I see on moving and taking up Canadian citizenship (assuming certain things hold out in the long run):
1. Healthcare after you retire. Your savings won't be eaten up. I have this feeling that no matter how much you save up, lifestyle diseases will plague us all and eat into anything you've saved if you stay in the US.
2. A place to call home (I personally don't think I can work in India).
3. Sponsoring parents if such a need arises.

I still monitor this thread because I am also not certain about the first requirement: plethora of jobs (even if not paying too much).

Everyone has this mindset until they get copr and land. Once landed , it changes like above. So you'll essentially start thinking if move is really needed or not and would try to overlook all your above points with alternatives to convince yourself

 

[gtvisa2020]

Everyone has this mindset until they get copr and land. Once landed , it changes like above. So you'll essentially start thinking if move is really needed or not and would try to overlook all your above points with alternatives to convince yourself

There's some truth to this, but it is not ALL handwaving to convince ourselves that "take no action" is better. Here's why I say that:
1. If 100 H1B holders are Canadian PRs, not all these 100 folks will have H1 issues, reasonable argument. Only unknown factor, which of these 100 H1B holders will have issues? So solution we are working here is, all 100 folks want to get out the country before this becomes an issue.

This is similar Roulette, since we don't know which number the ball will land on, so I am not going to bet at all (meaning don't play the game and get out before it even becomes an issue). While this is a reasonable approach, the whole reason we came to the casino is to PLAY. Why give that up?

To is points:

1. Healthcare after you retire.

if you stay till 65, you can claim Medicare as long as you have 40 SS credits.

2. A place to call home

Fair enough. This I can understand.

Trust me, DEEPCUR. This question is unlike the post "Is it worth it", I am not trying to delude myself in thinking staying in the U.S is the best thing. But We all knew what we signed up when we left India, so why create alternate plans now? What changed? This is what I am trying to understand. Objective is to reason with others to analyze a situation before taking an action and not believing what you tell yourself is true. ​

 

[DEEPCUR]

There's some truth to this, but it is not ALL handwaving to convince ourselves that "take no action" is better. Here's why I say that:
1. If 100 H1B holders are Canadian PRs, not all these 100 folks will have H1 issues, reasonable argument. Only unknown factor, which of these 100 H1B holders will have issues? So solution we are working here is, all 100 folks want to get out the country before this becomes an issue.

This is similar Roulette, since we don't know which number the ball will land on, so I am not going to bet at all (meaning don't play the game and get out before it even becomes an issue). While this is a reasonable approach, the whole reason we came to the casino is to PLAY. Why give that up?

To is points:


if you stay till 65, you can claim Medicare as long as you have 40 SS credits.

Fair enough. This I can understand.

Trust me, DEEPCUR. This question is unlike the post "Is it worth it", I am not trying to delude myself in thinking staying in the U.S is the best thing. But We all knew what we signed up when we left India, so why create alternate plans now? What changed? This is what I am trying to understand. Objective is to reason with others to analyze a situation before taking an action and not believing what you tell yourself is true. ​

I can totally relate that. I just don't like to live in visa for decades. May be if both spouses are working in H1, both are employed as FTE (unlikely to have visa issues any time), have siblings in India to take care of parents, and kids are US born then there may not be much incentive in exploring Canada route. My spouse is working on H4 EAD, and it is on the verge of dying, so moving to Canada gives assurance for her career.

FTE is the only guaranteed way to stay free of visa issues. By FTE, I mean working for an American company aka end client. Not staffing company. But that comes with a risk of getting laid off any time. That definitely has higher likelihood than extension getting denied future. Earlier when people get laid off, they had option of joining consultancies. But these days that door is completely closed. Almost everyone in EV+C model is getting denied these days. If you are working with staffing company, no matter how ever reputed the company is, there are high chances of denial in future.

Health could be another concern too. If one person is on H1, and if he runs in to a health issue that could disable or keep the person out of work for extended period of time, then visa is not going to work at all. It is not possible to remain in US without work. If it going to be so for few years, then you could overlook this risk. But you are looking at decades of living in visa. Many of us would enter in to 40s with visa, and anything could happen to us any time. I come across one gofundme case every week asking money for treatment for desis in US who were subject to sudden cardiac arrests, heart attacks and cancers. If some says nothing would happen to them, they are in complete denial, and I have no comments on that. Being a PR assures a sense of security, you could get unemployment benefits, and can remain unemployed as long as you want.

I will tell you one very recent case that I came across. One family went to India, and the H1 holder had some medical issue. So he was admitted in hospital and was recovering and expected to recover in several weeks. As kids need to start the school, H4 holder traveled before H1 holder with kids. She was denied entry at the port of entry because H1 holder was not in US, and was held in detention and was told that she could be let in only after H1 holder enters US. The husband had to rush in overnight flight with unhealed medical issue. Only after that they were let in.

Other reasons would be family reunion.. can sponsor parents after being in PR for 3 years and keep them with us permanently. Super visa is also a good option where one could keep parents for an extended time with them. Not possible in H1b.


//if you stay till 65, you can claim Medicare as long as you have 40 SS credits.//

You still need to pay premiums and ridiculous deductibles even if you are in Medicare. That is why you see many old people working in Walmart as greeters etc. This is no substitute to universal healthcare and the peace of mind that comes with it.

 

[gtvisa2020]

​

But that comes with a risk of getting laid off any time

Valid concern. +1 for Canada.

Health could be another concern too. If one person is on H1, and if he runs in to a health issue that could disable or keep the person out of work for extended period of time, then visa is not going to work at all. It is not possible to remain in US without work. If it going to be so for few years, then you could overlook this risk. But you are looking at decades of living in visa. Many of us would enter in to 40s with visa, and anything could happen to us any time. I come across one gofundme case every week asking money for treatment for desis in US who were subject to sudden cardiac arrests, heart attacks and cancers. If some says nothing would happen to them, they are in complete denial, and I have no comments on that. Being a PR assures a sense of security, you could get unemployment benefits, and can remain unemployed as long as you want.

Again this is a very valid concern, and a reality all of us face. +1 for Canada.

//if you stay till 65, you can claim Medicare as long as you have 40 SS credits.//

You still need to pay premiums and ridiculous deductibles even if you are in Medicare. That is why you see many old people working in Walmart as greeters etc. This is no substitute to universal healthcare and the peace of mind that comes with it.

I am not so sure this is valid concern. By today's calculations, Medicare part A + part B premiums run around $400/month maximum for the sickest of the sick in the U.S. Through increased taxes (which I am happy to contribute), premiums over lifetime in Canada is not that different.

At the end of the day, we are looking at risk vs reward and by the points you mentioned (job loss, and medical issue), Canada indeed comes out a head.

My original thought process was - probability is not that great for H1 denial. But after writing the question, I realized looking at just probability is not the right way to evaluate this risk. One ought look at Risk = (Probability * Impact if that happens). By this thinking, I can understand why we all pre-wired to look up to Great White North.

Anyhow, asking this question out loud, made things clear in my head. Thank you both for entertaining my prompt. ​

 

[Cubicrootofthee]

Valid concern. +1 for Canada.



Again this is a very valid concern, and a reality all of us face. +1 for Canada.

I am not so sure this is valid concern. By today's calculations, Medicare part A + part B premiums run around $400/month maximum for the sickest of the sick in the U.S. Through increased taxes (which I am happy to contribute), premiums over lifetime in Canada is not that different.

At the end of the day, we are looking at risk vs reward and by the points you mentioned (job loss, and medical issue), Canada indeed comes out a head.

My original thought process was - probability is not that great for H1 denial. But after writing the question, I realized looking at just probability is not the right way to evaluate this risk. One ought look at Risk = (Probability * Impact if that happens). By this thinking, I can understand why we all pre-wired to look up to Great White North.

Anyhow, asking this question out loud, made things clear in my head. Thank you both for entertaining my prompt. ​

Absolutely agreed that this is a form of hedging.
But disagree on the medical thing - the premium and deductibles are only part of the thing. There's still coverage and providers that accept it. I continue to wonder how preventative services such as lipid profile tests aren't covered in my employer sponsored plan presently (FTE with a decent plan). I get a $50 Bill for that alone. The worst part of it all is nothing is known/declared upfront. I just got an invoice for something back in October of last year with a notice to send it to collections if I don't pay up within 10 days (the first time I am receiving the invoice). So, even with the ACA, things were screwed up. Before and after, you needn't even ask.
Another personal adventure: 11+ years ago, I had some tummy pain and a few scans cost me over 8k after insurance (University coverage). Guess what the reason for declining coverage was? Lifetime maximum benefit reached. I told the hospital I couldn't pay and they referred me to some Christian charity (this was west Texas). They got my case approved for 4k. I ended up putting the other 4k+ on CCs for the next year. Paid it all after being employed for 8+ months. I was one of the lucky ones to have got a job in Nov of 2008 (financial meltdown). This is my primary complaint of the healthcare system in the US: even if you are willing to pay a higher premium, there is no guarantee of coverage unless your are willing to take it to court.

 

[gtvisa2020]

Absolutely agreed that this is a form of hedging.
But disagree on the medical thing - the premium and deductibles are only part of the thing. There's still coverage and providers that accept it. I continue to wonder how preventative services such as lipid profile tests aren't covered in my employer sponsored plan presently (FTE with a decent plan). I get a $50 Bill for that alone. The worst part of it all is nothing is known/declared upfront. I just got an invoice for something back in October of last year with a notice to send it to collections if I don't pay up within 10 days (the first time I am receiving the invoice). So, even with the ACA, things were screwed up. Before and after, you needn't even ask.
Another personal adventure: 11+ years ago, I had some tummy pain and a few scans cost me over 8k after insurance (University coverage). Guess what the reason for declining coverage was? Lifetime maximum benefit reached. I told the hospital I couldn't pay and they referred me to some Christian charity (this was west Texas). They got my case approved for 4k. I ended up putting the other 4k+ on CCs for the next year. Paid it all after being employed for 8+ months. I was one of the lucky ones to have got a job in Nov of 2008 (financial meltdown). This is my primary complaint of the healthcare system in the US: even if you are willing to pay a higher premium, there is no guarantee of coverage unless your are willing to take it to court.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Makes sense, seems insurance/medical care alone warrants the move at this point.
Another interesting read here: https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/98ke4f/why_does_it_cost_32093_just_to_give_birth_in/

 

[DEEPCUR]

Valid concern. +1 for Canada.



Again this is a very valid concern, and a reality all of us face. +1 for Canada.

I am not so sure this is valid concern. By today's calculations, Medicare part A + part B premiums run around $400/month maximum for the sickest of the sick in the U.S. Through increased taxes (which I am happy to contribute), premiums over lifetime in Canada is not that different.

At the end of the day, we are looking at risk vs reward and by the points you mentioned (job loss, and medical issue), Canada indeed comes out a head.

My original thought process was - probability is not that great for H1 denial. But after writing the question, I realized looking at just probability is not the right way to evaluate this risk. One ought look at Risk = (Probability * Impact if that happens). By this thinking, I can understand why we all pre-wired to look up to Great White North.

Anyhow, asking this question out loud, made things clear in my head. Thank you both for entertaining my prompt. ​

Plus if one happen to leave US for any of those reasons, our kids need to grow up in India. I don't want that.

I may be overthinking or over worrying or things could go wrong in any place, but reading the news on rampant sexual abuses or rapes, it feels India is a terrible place for women and to raise children. I know we all grew up there, but things seem to be happening at an alarming rate these days.

I hate to say this, but our people have very little compassion for others, very little ethics in every little walk of life, and just corrupt to the core. Businesses just try to exploit customers as much they can by pricing high with no focus on quality or service. Even a street vendor tries to overprice you for vegetables if he knows that you work in IT or you are a NRI.

Schools just charge a bomb as fees and try to suck money in every possible way from parents who earn well. Donation, building funds, what not.

Everyone who goes to India comes back with similar opinion, and feel more like settling in US after every India trip, when it has to be other way due to nostalgia.

People in West on the other hand seem to have much better values, way more honest and genuine. I presume growing up in a rich country makes all of that happen. Since everything is available in abandunt, nobody grows with a mindset of 'jugaad' to get things done.

Canada outscores India clearly in those aspects, and definitely scores as good or even better than US in many of those yard sticks. Being on PR means you have control of your life and can truly dictate where you 'want' to live, and not just count on stars or USCIS to take every step in life.

 

[skarme312]

This is essentially what I am getting at. If all your future job prospects are in the U.S what benefit is to have Canadian citizenship? Especially the probability of H1 extension getting denied is less than 100%?

In other words, why go through this cross border hopping when there is no issue right NOW and potential future issue is not 100% probable?

What is you get laid off? Especially after you are 6+ years on H1B and need to renew you VISA in the near future. Finding a new job is stressful and you have to keep a check on I140 being filed, etc. I know there are ways around it, but its a huge burden. Also, I personally will keep trying in Canada, but for now I don't want to keep losing days on the PR residency obligation. These of course are my reasons and I totally understand folks will have their own opinions.