PR Residency Obligations: Cutting it close ?

[reddevil666]

Hello all

I landed in Canada on January 26, 2016 and then I was working outside and now, I have finally wrapped up my work and will move to Canada for good on November 3, 2018. My PR card was issued on March 6,2016 and expires on March 5, 2021. I have a couple of questions:

1. My 5 year PR time starts from Jan 26, 2016 until Jan 25, 2021 ? Or does it start from March 6, 2016 to March 5, 2021 ?
2. When can I file the application to renew my PR card ?
3. If I travel outside and I am able to finish exactly 730 days by Jan 25, 2021, will it cause any issue in PR renewal application ?
4. Can I apply for PR card renewal after the expiry of PR card ? Can I work during the same time ?
4. In that case, can I apply for PR card renewal on Feb 26, 2021 as that gives my extra 30 days ? During the PR card application, do they look at previous 5 years from the date you applied or do they look at 5 years from Landing date ?

Thanks

 

[Bs65]

Hello all

I landed in Canada on January 26, 2016 and then I was working outside and now, I have finally wrapped up my work and will move to Canada for good on November 3, 2018. My PR card was issued on March 6,2016 and expires on March 5, 2021. I have a couple of questions:

1. My 5 year PR time starts from Jan 26, 2016 until Jan 25, 2021 ? Or does it start from March 6, 2016 to March 5, 2021 ?
2. When can I file the application to renew my PR card ?
3. If I travel outside and I am able to finish exactly 730 days by Jan 25, 2021, will it cause any issue in PR renewal application ?
4. Can I apply for PR card renewal after the expiry of PR card ? Can I work during the same time ?
4. In that case, can I apply for PR card renewal on Feb 26, 2021 as that gives my extra 30 days ? During the PR card application, do they look at previous 5 years from the date you applied or do they look at 5 years from Landing date ?

Thanks

1)the initial 5 years starts from date of landing so jan 26 2016

2)believe is upto 9 months before the card expires but you would need to have met the RO at time of application.
3) as long as you meet the 730 in first 5 years no issue but not recommended to aim for exactly 730 days, include some buffer.

Also keep in mind that after the first 5 years it becomes a rolling 5 years so each time you enter after that you can be assessed for the 5 years before each new entry so any previous days credit starts to gradually fade.

Most would recommend exceeding the 730 days by a month or two given it is down to an individual to demonstrate they meet RO.

4)sure you can work without a valid PR card as long as have a valid SIN and lots of people do but cannot travel outside by plane.

5)5 years from landing date if you apply before jan 26 2021 but if you apply after that date 5 years back from application date. Key thing is to show 730 days minimum, although most would say include a 30-60 day buffer on top, in a 5 year period back from application date.

 

[canuck78]

Would anticipate a secondary review if you come somewhat close to 730 days. You'll have to prove when you were in Canada so keep records. It takes a long time to renew PR card so best to aim for more time if possible.

 

[reddevil666]

1)the initial 5 years starts from date of landing so jan 26 2016

5)5 years from landing date if you apply before jan 26 2021 but if you apply after that date 5 years back from application date. Key thing is to show 730 days minimum, although most would say include a 30-60 day buffer on top, in a 5 year period back from application date.

Thanks @Bs65. I would surely keep 30-60 days buffer.

You mentioned in 1) that "initial 5 years starts from date of landing so jan 26 2016". So, Can I apply for PR card renewal for the first time after Jan 26, 2021 Eg: on Feb 25, 2021 ? I am assuming in this case, rolling 5 years come into play ie from Feb 26, 2016 to Feb 25, 2021 ?

 

[canuck78]

Thanks @Bs65. I would surely keep 30-60 days buffer.

You mentioned in 1) that "initial 5 years starts from date of landing so jan 26 2016". So, Can I apply for PR card renewal for the first time after Jan 26, 2021 Eg: on Feb 25, 2021 ? I am assuming in this case, rolling 5 years come into play ie from Feb 26, 2016 to Feb 25, 2021 ?

Yes you got it. Would try for a bigger buffer if possible or anticipate secondary review. You can also just anticipate secondary review. Would keep proof and record or your entry/exits to Canada. Much easier to do as you go along versus when they ask for proof.

 

[dpenabill]

Observations:

Cutting-it-close is, tautology here: Cutting-it-close. There are almost always some risks involved in cutting-it-close.

The risks are discussed at-length and in-depth in several topics here. They range from facing Secondary Review in processing a PR card application to potential skepticism and difficulty in meeting the burden of proof IF and when challenged to actually prove compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.

The latter, the need to actually prove compliance with the PR RO, typically happens attendant PR card renewal, or PR Travel Document application (if, say, the PR card is lost while abroad, or circumstances are such a PR is otherwise abroad without a PR card), or occasionally when a PR is examined at a PoE upon returning to Canada (such as after an extended absence). IRCC does not have a crystal ball, so actual proof of days in Canada can be needed.

An accounting of travel dates can fall way, way short of proof, since they really only prove presence those specific days and, for example, do NOT PROVE where the PR was in the days between a known date of entry and next REPORTED date of exit.

What constitutes Cutting-it-close?

To my view, thinking of this in terms of a "buffer" misses the point. Sure, a buffer can really help assure the ultimate decision when there is a formal PR RO compliance determination being made.

BUT relative to the PR RO generally, and many of the risks involved in cutting-it-close, the real difference is between being fully settled and living in Canada, and having been doing so for two plus years RECENTLY, versus those who are not currently well-settled and living in Canada.

A four month buffer is of little help if a parent abroad is seriously ill and the PR is compelled to spend longer than that abroad (contrary to popular opinion, a family member's illness can fall way short of making a successful H&C case for a breach of the PR RO). Or, if the PR has business dealings or employment abroad that requires continuing to be abroad for more than six more months. Among scores of reasons why a PR might have an unexpected, unplanned for reason to be abroad longer than his or her "buffer."

In the meantime, if there is any doubt or concerns about where a person was at any given time, it is entirely reasonable to make the INFERENCE that a person was where that person is known to have been most of the time. So for any PR who has been abroad more than HALF the time, it is entirely reasonable for IRCC or CBSA to approach the PR's accounting of days in Canada with some skepticism if not outright suspicion. For purposes of proving where the PR was, there is not much of a buffer unless the PR has spent at least 800 to 900 days in Canada within the preceding five years.

For the PR who can affirmatively prove actual presence 730 or more days within the preceding five years, that meets the PR RO. But there is a lot, lot more to take into consideration when making future plans which could involve extended absences from Canada. And a mere buffer hardly tips the scales in weighing options and risks.

For soft-landing PRs, a plan to finally settle in Canada within TWO years of the landing date, is perhaps (usually) a safe plan, enough of a buffer so to say, to minimize risks.

For those who have been a PR longer than five years: anything short of actually being settled and living in Canada elevates the risks significantly (unless there is specific credit for time abroad). After five years, less than half time in Canada increases the risk of serious skepticism if not outright suspicion when there is reason for a PR RO compliance determination.

 

[Gr8AmirM]

Hi Experts
An exact situation is with me. I landed in April 2016 and now going to Canada by Sept or max. October 2018 (This time Toronto, the province other than I landed originally). Hopefully, It is ok if I can manage to remain there for sure two years plus some additional time excluding my future visits back to the home country (say 30 days)?

i.e. an exact 2.5 Years in hand while going back to Canada.

Thank you in advance for your helpful comments and any tips you want to share.
BR

 

[qureishi]

In my opinion you are Safe with six months buffer..

Best of luck !

 

[dpenabill]

Hi Experts
An exact situation is with me. I landed in April 2016 and now going to Canada by Sept or max. October 2018 (This time Toronto, the province other than I landed originally). Hopefully, It is ok if I can manage to remain there for sure two years plus some additional time excluding my future visits back to the home country (say 30 days)?

i.e. an exact 2.5 Years in hand while going back to Canada.

Thank you in advance for your helpful comments and any tips you want to share.
BR

Largely for emphasis:

Actually arriving in Canada to stay, to settle and live and work in Canada, within approximately two and a half years of the date the PR landed, that should indeed work, and so long as there are NO extended absences in the next two years, even if there is a wrinkle or two (like Secondary Review for a new PR card application when the time for that comes), there should not be any serious concerns.

Emphasis, however, is on this being what ACTUALLY happens.

As a "plan," however, as the third year anniversary of landing approaches the risks are steadily rising, contingent on how definite the plans are and subject to whatever contingencies the plan is dependent on, be that settling this or that business matter, selling a home, obtaining this or that funding, or whatever loose ends the immigrant needs to wrap up to actually complete the move.

Trite but all too true: the best laid plans . . .

Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy! ​

Or, as it is commonly said more recently than Robert Burns penned his poem, "The best laid plans of mice and men / Oft go awry"

As I also noted in my previous post, there are risks of contingencies that might arise AFTER arriving in Canada, a parent has a serious medical condition for example, or one parent dies and the other parent needs assistance for a period of time. This forum is rife with tales of heartrending decisions, balancing the potential loss of PR status against staying with a close family member during a difficult time.

And even after the immigrant has in fact spent two years in Canada, there is a big difference in RISKS after that for the PR who is settled and living in Canada (low risk) versus the PR who leaves for extended periods and is, in practice, living or working abroad (more risk). There seems to be a significant number of individuals who obtain PR but do not actually immigrate to Canada, who attempt to spend enough time in Canada to comply with the PR Residency Obligation and thus keep PR status, but who do not actually settle and stay permanently in Canada. Their approach to the PR RO is flawed and fraught with risks, and many of their stories, permeated with complaint, populate the back pages here, in what should be understood as cautionary tales.


(Note: "Permanently" is not a forever affair. While intention no longer has any direct role in PR obligations, it would be a mistake to parse the rules literally and overlook what the IAD and Federal Court continue to state with emphasis, that the purpose of granting PR status is to facilitate "PERMANENT" residence in Canada. In practical terms, what this means is that the 2/5 rule is itself considered to be a very liberal rule intended to accommodate almost any contingency, just about every contingency, which might require a PERMANENT settler in Canada to spend extended periods of time abroad. Historically enforcement was lax. This appears to in fact be HISTORY. Hard to judge precisely how strict enforcement is these days, but it is apparent it is a lot more strict today than it was when I was issued a PR visa around a decade ago.)