Canadian Citizenship?...Really?...Oh My

[Wyfarer]

Hi all, first time posting here and I stumbled across this forum via Google. This forum is similar to the one we used to process my wife's fiance visa and eventual Permanent Residence Card (and US Citizenship); she's from Australia. Anyway, that's another story.

I traveled to Canada last week as far as Edmonton (coming from California and driving) where my mom and grandfather were born. I was going to do a little research for my first cousin who is into the family genealogy thing. My great grandparents (from Ontario originally) were buried in Leduc, AB, but my cousin didn't know exactly where. Luckily, with one phone call to the City, I was able to find where (out of about eight cemeteries I was going to approach) they were buried; but surprisingly without headstones! Anyway, my cousin was appreciative of that; dotting another "i" and crossing another "t" in her continued research.

Anyway, when crossing the border at Eastgate, BC, a young Canadian customs/immigration guy was asking me about my travels to/in Canada. I mentioned some of the above. He said as my mom was born in Canada (Edmonton), I could get Canadian Citizenship. I was a little surprised in that I thought I kind of asked the question some 15 years ago and the answer was "no." He said, well, he had different information and that I might want to look into it, etc. So here I am!

Basically, my grandmother (American, but living in Canada and going to Nursing school in Edmonton) and grandfather (Canadian, born in Edmonton) were married across the border in Bonners Ferry, ID (I got some paperwork for my cousin on this trip too from there) on July 23, 1928. I'm not sure if they went back across the border to Canada immediately after the wedding or moved on down to California where they eventually were to settle--I could probably ask my cousin, she may know. They did cross back into Canada for my mom's birth on January 31, 1929 in Edmonton, AB. Probably because in part there were other family and friends in the area to help after the birth.

I'm not sure if my mom ever gained a formalized Canadian Citizenship upon her birth or how that might have worked back in the late-20's. I know there was some "naturalization" process to become a US Citizen my grandfather went through upon his move and settlement in California. I'm not sure if my mom also went through a similar process as an infant to gain US Citizenship or was granted that because her mother (my grandmother) was a US Citizen already. My mom passed about three years ago.

So I guess my question is that given my brief outline above, does the opportunity for me to become a Canadian Citizen actually exist from the fact that my mom was born in Canada? She did travel back across the border to Canada as a youngster to visit family, but never spent time living or working there. I've looked already online but get a little confused with some of the terminology et al that I'm looking at.

Thank you a head of time for any suggestions, help, etc. I'm looking to be pointed in the right direction if there is one!

 

[ContactFront]

An interesting story. IMO you have a good chance to be a Canadian citizen. If you mom became a US citizen before 1977 she would've lost her Canadian citizenship but the change to citizenship rules in 2009 would've made her a citizen again, which would in turn make you a citizen.
You can check here for more info. There's also a "Am I a Canadian citizen" tool.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/become-canadian-citizen/eligibility/already-citizen.html

This page gives an overview of the citizenship rules
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/canadian-citizenship/overview/history-legislation.html

You might want to go find your mom's birth certificate.

 

[Wyfarer]

Thanks for that! It seems that things have changed a bit since my initial inquiry to a Canadian diplomat or soon to be (who I met on a social forum--Lonely Planet Thorn Tree) some years ago, maybe in the late 90's. Yeah, I will need my mom's birth certificate (of which I tried to get in Edmonton, but who was I? I didn't have my birth certificate or her death certificate...just a guy walking up to try to get a cert...duh, I wasn't packin' paperwork, just on a travel jaunt to Alberta) and probably death certificate...need to reach out to dad. My Australian (now US Citizen) wife is excited that I might be part of the Commonwealth. I commented that it might even be better; if I get Canadian Citizenship, then I could perhaps get her the same via our marriage.

 

[ContactFront]

If you get citizenship, you can sponsor her to become a permanent resident. After that she can apply for citizenship.
But first you'll have to get those paperwork that can prove your mom was a citizen. Good luck!

 

[Wyfarer]

I guess that is what I am wrestling with: did mom actually have Canadian Citizenship, or was she just in some limbo or the like of something as far as birthright goes as an infant. And with the latter, am I able to utilize that for my own "application." Is there credence for her just being born on Canadian soil?

 

[ContactFront]

In your application you would need to submit copy of her birth certificate, which proves she was born on Canadian soil and that (hopefully if I'm not mistaken) she was a citizen.

If I were you, I'd try to find that certificate and apply. Application fee is just 75 bucks and you'll get your answer once they make a decision on your application.

 

[hawk39]

I guess that is what I am wrestling with: did mom actually have Canadian Citizenship, or was she just in some limbo or the like of something as far as birthright goes as an infant. And with the latter, am I able to utilize that for my own "application." Is there credence for her just being born on Canadian soil?

The Canadian Citizenship Act of 1947, section 4(a) states that 'a person is a natural-born Canadian citizen if, before the commencement of the act, he/she was born in Canada and had not become an alien (acquired citizenship from another country)'. Because your mother was born before the Act was enacted, she was a British subject, and since British nationality law says the same thing (i.e. as long as she did not become an alien, you're British), she became an Canadian citizen in 1947.

Now, if your mother did acquire US citizenship anytime between when she was born and 1977, she would have lost her British Subject status or Canadian citizenship. Depending on whether your mother lost British Subject status or Canadian citizenship, Canadian citizenship was restored to her in 2009 or granted to her in 2015. Being the first generation born abroad, you also became entitled to citizenship by descent the same year her citizenship was restored or granted.

 

[vensak]

That is the catch, You also need to check what exactly your grandparents did when it comes to citizenship.
At the time of your mother birth she was a British subject. (because where she was born, but also because her father was Canadian).
So if ever your father did renounce his British citizenship (did the act of alienation) or the citizenship was revoked to him, only then it would be problematic for your mother (of course if during that time she was minor).
Or if the parents during that time applied on her behalf as well (applied as a family).
But other than that she should be recognized as a Canadian by birth, so you should be Canadian as well.
However your children are not Canadian. simply because you were born outside and you did not register yourself or your children (when it was required). So that would make them second generation born abroad.
Also you can sponsor your spouse, but as for your children, you can only sponsor them if they are still minor (or more exactly max. 21 years old). After that it is almost impossible to sponsor your children..

 

[Wyfarer]

Can't seem to utilize the quote function here (not sure where it is).

Dad didn't have mom's birth certificate, but does have the death cert. So unless my uncle (who has the old house where they all lived and is next door to me--although he lives on another property a couple hours away) has paperwork from his parents (my grandparents and my mom's brother) stashed somewhere in the old house, then I'm going to have to get a replacement birth certificate. I'm near San Francisco and am wondering if I can work with the Canadian Consulate on that piece of paperwork?

@ContactFront: yeah, I think just simply submitting everything and see how it goes may be the best course of action--just have the hiccup of getting my mom's birth cert. I have mine on my desk and it clearly shows my mom's maiden name and place of birth, Canada. Interestingly, it shows my dad's place of birth to be Indiana (State) and not the province of Canada for my mom; although I'm sure it would be outlined on her birth cert.

@hawk39: All very interesting information.I'm thinking my mom was probably "naturalized" via her American mother (my grandmother). The two pieces of legislation in 2009 and 2015 are probably reasons why the immigration/customs guy disagreed with my assessment of my one-off research or inquiry I made about birthright et al; that would have been in the early 2000's, so things have changed since then. And you outline in your last sentence pretty much what the immigration/customs guy said me, he used the term "first born..." (generation).

@vensak: So I think you are saying that all the naturalization that mom and grandfather did is reversed in a sense with the 2009 and 2015 legislation hawk notes above. Re kids; I had the luck of having diaper-free children--they are my step-children. They moved to the States with their mother at age 9 (girl) and 11 (boy); they are almost 22 and 24 now.

 

[ContactFront]

Birth cert can be ordered from Service Alberta directly.
https://www.servicealberta.ca/birth-certificates.cfm

 

[vensak]

Can't seem to utilize the quote function here (not sure where it is).

Dad didn't have mom's birth certificate, but does have the death cert. So unless my uncle (who has the old house where they all lived and is next door to me--although he lives on another property a couple hours away) has paperwork from his parents (my grandparents and my mom's brother) stashed somewhere in the old house, then I'm going to have to get a replacement birth certificate. I'm near San Francisco and am wondering if I can work with the Canadian Consulate on that piece of paperwork?

@ContactFront: yeah, I think just simply submitting everything and see how it goes may be the best course of action--just have the hiccup of getting my mom's birth cert. I have mine on my desk and it clearly shows my mom's maiden name and place of birth, Canada. Interestingly, it shows my dad's place of birth to be Indiana (State) and not the province of Canada for my mom; although I'm sure it would be outlined on her birth cert.

@hawk39: All very interesting information.I'm thinking my mom was probably "naturalized" via her American mother (my grandmother). The two pieces of legislation in 2009 and 2015 are probably reasons why the immigration/customs guy disagreed with my assessment of my one-off research or inquiry I made about birthright et al; that would have been in the early 2000's, so things have changed since then. And you outline in your last sentence pretty much what the immigration/customs guy said me, he used the term "first born..." (generation).

@vensak: So I think you are saying that all the naturalization that mom and grandfather did is reversed in a sense with the 2009 and 2015 legislation hawk notes above. Re kids; I had the luck of having diaper-free children--they are my step-children. They moved to the States with their mother at age 9 (girl) and 11 (boy); they are almost 22 and 24 now.

If your mother was born in Canada, she was not naturalised, but citizen by birth. So the only case for her to loose citizenship would be if her family (in this case father) specifically asked to stop being British subject (alienation act) or if there was other valid reason why his citizenship was revoked (all that would have to happen while she was minor - less than 19 years old).
As her parents could have asked that on behalf of her. In that case for her to be still a British subject, she would have to request it back at the age of 19 (that would be in 1947 or 1948).
Otherwise with regards of new law from 2015 she would get her Canadian citizenship (because she was born there) and so would you have right.

When it comes to children it would not matter if they would be yours or adopted. Would you become Canadian citizen few years earlier, you could sponsor them. But right now they are too old to be sponsored.
However you can still sponsor your spouse (or common law) once you get your citizenship.

 

[Wyfarer]

Thanks for that ContactFront; I was actually on the phone with them today. I actually go through https://www.registryconnect.ca/ as I'm not a resident of Alberta. That's also how I was instructed to pay when I was on the phone with "Meghan."

@vensak; thanks for the additional information. What I meant by "naturalized" was that my mom was naturalized as a US Citizen given her mom's (my grandmother) US Citizen status. So hunting around on the internet today, it seems the best course of action is:

1. Find mom's birth certificate or apply for a replacement (see above)
2. It appears to me once I have all my paperwork (mainly mom's birth certificate) I don't "apply" for citizenship, BUT apply for Proof of Citizenship: judgement will then be made from that application and submission. Once I get (if I get) the Citizen Certificate then I can move on with passport et al.

 

[vensak]

Thanks for that ContactFront; I was actually on the phone with them today. I actually go through https://www.registryconnect.ca/ as I'm not a resident of Alberta. That's also how I was instructed to pay when I was on the phone with "Meghan."

@vensak; thanks for the additional information. What I meant by "naturalized" was that my mom was naturalized as a US Citizen given her mom's (my grandmother) US Citizen status. So hunting around on the internet today, it seems the best course of action is:

1. Find mom's birth certificate or apply for a replacement (see above)
2. It appears to me once I have all my paperwork (mainly mom's birth certificate) I don't "apply" for citizenship, BUT apply for Proof of Citizenship: judgement will then be made from that application and submission. Once I get (if I get) the Citizen Certificate then I can move on with passport et al.

You will need more than just her certificate. You also need to prove how exactly did she get her USA citizenship and if ever she rejected to be a British subject in the past. You might also need information about her parents (how did they get their USA citizenship).
Because of that 2015 law they need to check backward her history (especially when she became USA citizen while UK was not allowing it).
And so called quote will be there if you press reply to a specific post in your thread.

 

[Wyfarer]

You will need more than just her certificate. You also need to prove how exactly did she get her USA citizenship and if ever she rejected to be a British subject in the past. You might also need information about her parents (how did they get their USA citizenship).
Because of that 2015 law they need to check backward her history (especially when she became USA citizen while UK was not allowing it).
And so called quote will be there if you press reply to a specific post in your thread.

vensak, got the quote thing going! In the instructions for the Application for Canadian Citizenship Cert there are 12 Scenarios as part of the Checklist of Documents for the application. I, as best I can tell, fall into just one category, Scenario 3 which states: If you were born outside of Canada on or after January 1, 1947 to a Canadian parent or a parent who became a citizen as a result of the legislative amendments to the Citizenship Act on April 17, 2009 and June 11, 2015. I am asked to provide just my birth certificate (certified copy) which will list my parents on it and proof that one of "your" natural parents was a Canadian citizen when I was born; that proof can be my mom's provincial birth certificate (certified copy). There's other items I need to include, fees, copy of my US passport, photos, etc., but as far as anything else pertaining to my mom, I'm not seeing it except for the one item as it directly pertains to her.

I'm thinking that with the "legislative amendments to the Citizenship Act" everything, in my case, defaults back to my mom's birth certificate.

 

[vensak]

vensak, got the quote thing going! In the instructions for the Application for Canadian Citizenship Cert there are 12 Scenarios as part of the Checklist of Documents for the application. I, as best I can tell, fall into just one category, Scenario 3 which states: If you were born outside of Canada on or after January 1, 1947 to a Canadian parent or a parent who became a citizen as a result of the legislative amendments to the Citizenship Act on April 17, 2009 and June 11, 2015. I am asked to provide just my birth certificate (certified copy) which will list my parents on it and proof that one of "your" natural parents was a Canadian citizen when I was born; that proof can be my mom's provincial birth certificate (certified copy). There's other items I need to include, fees, copy of my US passport, photos, etc., but as far as anything else pertaining to my mom, I'm not seeing it except for the one item as it directly pertains to her.

I'm thinking that with the "legislative amendments to the Citizenship Act" everything, in my case, defaults back to my mom's birth certificate.

Yes but in both of those amendment, there is condition, that your parent should not have renounce his Canadian (or British before 1947) citizenship in order for you to become citizen. Thats why you need to provide more than just a birth certificate.
Since they will check her lifeline when it comes to citizenship. thats all.