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What if I declare something without evidence?!!

Arshan

Full Member
Jun 14, 2017
42
3
Hi everyone,

I am applying for PRTD on H&C grounds. My question is if I declare to have a special condition and I do not support it with sufficient proof, then the officer would usually ask to submit the evidence while holding the process, or he/she would simply ignore my declaration on that special condition?

I appreciate if some of you just answer my question, as one of my supporting documents will take about 6 months to get prepared.
 

Bs65

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2016
13,187
2,420
Personal view and others can comment but any H&C application will likely receive extra scrutiny/ vetting into anything declared as part of the application. So if anything is declared would expect that would need to be supported with evidence, in fact would hope that it would be scrutinised and not overlooked given if H&C applications were easy everyone would be taking that route.

This just a personal view by the way.
 
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Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,870
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H&C applications would require supporting documents and evidence related to the claim to support the application. In making a claim, the onus is on the applicant to provide the support for the claim. There seems to be a fair bit of latitude given the to the VO in the process, and I would suspect, given SCC rulings, a VO would make every effort to avoid arbitrarily dismissing a claim of H&C without at least requesting supporting evidence. That said, H&C seems to be a common theme used by those who fail to meet RO as a means to circumvent the required 730 day obligation, so an application submitted without supporting evidence or documentation could be subject to the same latitude, and weighted unfavourably against your claim.
Personally, I think anyone making a claim for H&C, employment exceptions or living abroad without submitting supporting documents or proof with the claim is taking a significant risk with the application being denied. Ultimately, the onus of proof is on the applicant.

You might want to read through this:
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf23-eng.pdf
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,427
3,173
The Visa Office may, and from what we know is MOST LIKELY to make a decision based on the application and the supporting evidence included in the application. The BURDEN of PROOF is squarely on the PR applying for the PR Travel Document. Thus, if the evidence included in the application is NOT sufficient to prove adequate H&C reasons for allowing the PR to retain status despite a breach of the PR Residency Obligation, ODDS are the Visa Office will DENY the application without requesting any additional information or proof.

There have been isolated anecdotal reports otherwise, but these appear to be uncommon exceptions (and probably explainable due to certain special circumstances).

In contrast, there are more reports, and more credible reports, of the contrary, including PRs who actually meet the PR RO but failed to adequately document this and were denied a PR TD.

REMINDER: a PR abroad without a valid PR card is statutorily PRESUMED to NOT have valid PR status. In particular, Section 31(2)(b) IRPA specifically provides that "unless an officer determines otherwise . . . a person who is outside Canada and who does not present a status document indicating permanent resident status is presumed not to have permanent resident status." See http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-8.html#h-20 This presumption is rebuttable, and in practice fairly easily rebutted so long as the PR submits proper evidence; the practical effect of this presumption is to allow IRCC to dismiss any PR TD application which fails to include sufficient supporting evidence without having to expend resources engaging in a protracted decision-making process (no need to request additional documents for example).

Example: when a couple decided to return to live in Canada, the PR living with a Canadian citizen spouse in the UK applied for a PR TD but (it appeared) failed to include all the necessary documents to qualify for the credit given PRs accompanying a Canadian citizen abroad (not sure if there was a failure to include a marriage certificate or sufficient proof of cohabitation abroad); PR TD denied. Thus, this individual had to appeal, and had to arrange travel to Canada via the U.S. in order to come to Canada (since it had been more than a year since the couple was in Canada, the PR was not entitled to a special PR TD pending the appeal). An easy appeal and my guess (PR did not return to forum to report on outcome of appeal) IRCC probably rescinded the PR TD denial without the matter being heard by an IAD panel (resolution by "consent").

Another example: a few years ago there was a high profile media case where an elderly PR traveled to visit family in Russia and needed to apply for a PR TD to return to Canada (do not recall if the media reported why she did not have a valid PR card), and her PR TD application was denied even though she not only had been absent from Canada a relatively minimal amount of time in the last five years, but had been settled and living in Canada for much of her adult life (my impression is that she probably could not meet the language requirement and thus had not obtained citizenship . . . at the time the language requirement applied to any adult not yet 65 years old). The media did not report why the Visa Office denied her PR TD application. Due to media coverage and public pressure this was a RARE (very rare I'd venture) occasion in which the Visa Office reconsidered the application and issued the woman a PR TD.
 

S_Govind

Hero Member
Apr 15, 2013
295
35
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-08-2012
Doc's Request.
15-04-2013
Nomination.....
01-11-2012 (Date of PER)
IELTS Request
Enclosed with the application
File Transfer...
01-11-2012 from CIO to CPP-O
Med's Request
23-11-2013 (RPRF requested on 22-11-2013)
Med's Done....
26-11-2013 Med's Received:06-01-2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
06-01-2014, Decision Made:09-01-2014
VISA ISSUED...
06-01-2014
LANDED..........
21-01-2014
REMINDER: a PR abroad without a valid PR card is statutorily PRESUMED to NOT have valid PR status. In particular, Section 31(2)(b) IRPA specifically provides that "unless an officer determines otherwise . . . a person who is outside Canada and who does not present a status document indicating permanent resident status is presumed not to have permanent resident status." See http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-8.html#h-20 .
The IRCC , however, says something to the contrary: one of the "eligibility requirements" to apply for a travel document is NOT having a valid PR card This statement runs in the face of the apparent presumption of not meeting the RO in the absence of a valid travel document. Of course, one would not apply for a travel document as long as the card is current and valid !

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/pr-travel-document.html
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,427
3,173
The IRCC , however, says something to the contrary: one of the "eligibility requirements" to apply for a travel document is NOT having a valid PR card This statement runs in the face of the apparent presumption of not meeting the RO in the absence of a valid travel document. Of course, one would not apply for a travel document as long as the card is current and valid !

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/new-immigrants/pr-travel-document.html
The IRCC information regarding applications for a PR Travel Document is actually CONSISTENT, not inconsistent, with the statutory provision (oft cited by IAD panels and occasionally Federal Court justices) prescribing the presumption. As one would expect, since IRCC is governed by the IRPA statutory provisions.

Not sure what in particular you think is inconsistent. But as the IRCC information makes clear, "[the applicant] will need to show that [he or she has] met the requirements to remain a permanent resident." A failure to making this showing, that is a failure to PROVE this, will (ordinarily) result in a DENIAL of the PR TD. That is how a rebuttable presumption works. The onus is on the PR to present sufficient evidence to rebut the presumption and the failure to do so will lead to a decision which formally adjudicates the loss of status UNLESS successfully appealed.

This is important to recognize because it means, in most cases (though there are some anecdotal reports otherwise), the Visa Office is NOT likely to request additional evidence or documentation from the PR if what has been submitted with the application falls short of establishing the individual meets the requirements for keeping PR.

Fortunately for those who do meet the requirements for retaining PR status but who fail to submit the requisite proof and are denied a PR TD, there is a right of appeal and in the appeal the matter is essentially heard de novo (as if not already decided) by the IAD, so the PR has an opportunity to present evidence in the appeal that was not submitted with the application. The risks and hassles of an appeal, however, weigh heavily in favour of making sure to submit sufficient proof with the PR TD application.

NOTE: there are some situations in which a Visa Office can perfunctorily review the PR TD application and where a PR is still within the first three years since the date of landing, no particular proof of compliance with the PR RO is necessary since, as a matter of rule and simple arithmetic such a PR is for-sure in compliance with the PR RO (there is NO way the PR has been outside Canada for more than 1095 days since landing). In these scenarios, proof of identity and a copy of CoPR or other evidence of IRCC client identity should easily suffice to rebut the presumption. BUT once it has been more than three years since date of landing, the PR abroad without a PR card needs to establish more than just PR status, but must affirmatively submit sufficient evidence of compliance with the PR RO in order to avoid losing PR status.
 

S_Govind

Hero Member
Apr 15, 2013
295
35
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O
NOC Code......
4012
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-08-2012
Doc's Request.
15-04-2013
Nomination.....
01-11-2012 (Date of PER)
IELTS Request
Enclosed with the application
File Transfer...
01-11-2012 from CIO to CPP-O
Med's Request
23-11-2013 (RPRF requested on 22-11-2013)
Med's Done....
26-11-2013 Med's Received:06-01-2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
06-01-2014, Decision Made:09-01-2014
VISA ISSUED...
06-01-2014
LANDED..........
21-01-2014
It is completely logical to expect the burden of proof to be on the applicant- that is something I am not contesting. All I am concerned about is the ambiguous wording used in two different places under the pretext of a "rebuttal presumption. The "eligibility" to apply for a PRTD requires the absence of a valid PR card, while at the same time the mere absence of a valid PR card might constitute a violation of the RO under the present regulations. These two statements are antithetical to me.

Further, what more is needed than a water tight documentation of the travel dates ?. The instruction guide and the document check list do not list any other supporting documents that might be warranted for a routine application. Surely, the VO would have access to the CBSA records and likely that would be sufficient to make a determination in most cases I believe
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,427
3,173
It is completely logical to expect the burden of proof to be on the applicant- that is something I am not contesting. All I am concerned about is the ambiguous wording used in two different places under the pretext of a "rebuttal presumption. The "eligibility" to apply for a PRTD requires the absence of a valid PR card, while at the same time the mere absence of a valid PR card might constitute a violation of the RO under the present regulations. These two statements are antithetical to me.

Further, what more is needed than a water tight documentation of the travel dates ?. The instruction guide and the document check list do not list any other supporting documents that might be warranted for a routine application. Surely, the VO would have access to the CBSA records and likely that would be sufficient to make a determination in most cases I believe
Still not following what is seen as "antithetical," but there is no need to let this divert what matters. What matters is the substantive law and the applicable procedure.

Substantively:

To be clear, the mere absence of a valid PR card does NOT constitute a violation, and in particular does NOT constitute a violation of the PR Residency Obligation. Moreover, in particular, a PR's status does not depend on possession of a valid PR card. A PR remains a PR even if he has no status card, no "PR card."

This is roughly similar to a passport. Canadian citizenship does not depend on possession of a valid Canadian passport. When a Canadian citizen loses his passport, or his passport expires, that has NO effect on his status as a Citizen. Likewise when a Canadian PR loses his PR card, or his PR card expires, that has NO effect on his status as a Canadian PR.

Moreover, even a gross breach of the PR RO does not constitute a "violation" as such, and it is NOT self-executing. A PR in breach of the PR RO nonetheless retains valid PR status UNLESS and UNTIL there is a formal adjudication concluding the PR is inadmissible due to the breach.

Procedure:

But neither a Canadian citizen nor a Canadian PR can (with certain exceptions) board an international flight bound for Canada without either a valid Canadian passport, PR card, or specially issued Travel Document (I am not sure what an application for a citizen's Travel Document requires).

A PR abroad without a valid PR card must, then, apply for a PR Travel Document. The rebuttable presumption that such a PR does NOT have valid PR status squarely puts the burden of PRESENTING sufficient information and evidence to PROVE valid status.

The PR TD application requires more information than just travel dates. Address and employment history must also be declared. These have no direct relationship to PR status or eligibility for a PR TD. They constitute, rather, corroborating information, both as to verifying identity (which is the most crucial element to establish, and which itself will typically establish PR status) and as to making a determination whether the PR is in compliance with the PR RO.

The context for this discussion has been primarily about making a H&C case. A focus here on H&C cases makes sense because generally it would be misrepresentation, a foolish misrepresentation, to claim credit for time in Canada the PR was not in Canada. Moreover, for purposes of illuminating how the process actually works, it only makes sense to approach this based on actual facts not misrepresentations.

But your reference to potential questioning of the PR's declarations of presence versus absence is an issue which, of course, can and sometimes does arise. Unfortunately, the IAD decisions rarely go into a sufficient level of procedural detail to illuminate how, as a practical matter, this is addressed by the Visa Office in actual cases. And anecdotal reports in this and other forums about this are notoriously sketchy and thus have been even less revealing. Perhaps this is the sort of issue which might, indeed, trigger a request the PR TD applicant submit further information or documentation (as I have noted, there are some anecdotal reports of this happening, but in the H&C scenario, in which the PR effectively discloses a breach of the PR RO, there is little or no indication of this -- if the PR fails to submit sufficient proof to document H&C reasons justifying the retention of status, the PR TD application is, at least ordinarily, denied, no request or opportunity to supplement the application further).

Proof of presence when IRCC or CBSA questions the accuracy or completeness of a PR's declarations is itself a huge topic, which of course arises in multiple situations such as citizenship applications, PoE examinations, PR card renewal applications, and appeals from both PoE issued Removal Orders and from denied PR TD applications. This is perhaps the topic I have focused on more than any other for many years now, albeit as much in the context of proving presence in a citizenship application as in determinations of compliance with the PR RO.

There is quite a lot of information about this available by reading IAD decisions in actual cases, as to PR RO determinations, and more generally in Federal Court decisions as well. But as I mentioned, the IAD proceedings are effectively de novo so the focus is on the evidence presented to the IAD panel; as for what the Visa Office's decision was based on, typically only the Visa Office's conclusions (often with minimal detail) are referenced, with little or no analysis of the evidence (at that stage) itself.

So I do not know much about how it goes with the Visa Office itself, in particular, if the PR submits an application asserting dates present in Canada which the Visa Office questions or challenges . . . except in terms of those cases resulting in a negative outcome, as seen in IAD decisions. Where, again, the evidentiary analysis is focused on evidence presented to the IAD panel not what was before the Visa Office. In this regard, it warrants noting that the vast majority of IAD appeals involve cases in which the PR either concedes the denial of the PR TD was valid in law (PR concedes being short of complying with the PR RO), or the IAD panel nonetheless concludes the denial was valid in law. In other words, the large majority of these cases are mostly about whether there are H&C reasons for allowing the PR to keep status, and only a few are focused on challenges to a PR's claim to have met the PR RO.

It is worth noting that close call cases PROBABLY (always contingent on additional factors however) have good ODDS, the Visa Office likely to conclude there are sufficient H&C reasons for issuing the PR TD notwithstanding the possibility the PR fell a LITTLE short. While a Visa Office can explicitly make a H&C ruling and issue a PR TD which is coded as based on H&C reasons, in many cases a PR is not advised that the decision to issue the PR TD was not necessarily based on a conclusion there was no breach.

Almost all anecdotal reports and other indications suggest this is most likely true in PoE examinations. Scores of PRs have reported, over the years and up to quite recently, successfully entering Canada without being reported despite falling short of the 730 day minimum. I and others have discussed a wide range of factors which quite likely influence the individual PR's chances. While Visa Offices are notoriously known for being more strict than CBSA officers at a PoE, if there is anywhere near a sensible reason for the delay in coming to Canada and the PR is very close to meeting the PR RO, the odds of getting a PR TD are probably quite good. (Caveat: to be in breach, however, is to be AT RISK for losing PR status.)

This is to say, when it comes to whether or not the PR met the PR RO itself, if this is a contested or questioned matter, it is probably NOT a close call case.


NOTE ABOUT TRAVEL DATES and CALCULATING PRESENCE IN CANADA:

As noted, if it is a close call case, the odds probably favour the PR. Obviously, certain factors can radically change this: indications of deliberate misrepresentation for example. Otherwise, for purposes of PR TD applications, the common scenario is the PR is NOT in compliance with the PR RO and the issue is making a strong H&C case.

Generally, in PR TD applications and PR card applications and in citizenship applications, as long as IRCC is approaching the application as a ROUTINE application (not questioning the PR's accounting of travel dates for example), and collateral information is consistent (such as work and address history, or as you allude, CBSA travel history), IRCC appears to readily make the INFERENCE the PR was in fact IN CANADA days in-between a known date of entry and the next reported date of exit. If, however, IRCC has reason to perceive the possibility the PR was outside Canada any of such days, the PR may NOT get the full benefit of such an inference.

Many participants in this forum overlook the fact that dates of entry and dates of exit ONLY document those specific dates. When proof of actual presence becomes necessary, how things go can and often will depend on how strong the PR's evidence is of actual presence in Canada on the days between known dates of entry and next reported dates of exit. Again, this is a huge subject, with all sorts of tangents and nuances. BUT it can be important to recognize that if and when IRCC doubts the veracity or otherwise questions the accuracy of the PR's account, dates of entry and dates of exit may not prove much at all.

How this factors into, as a matter of practice, a Visa Office decision on a PR TD application, for a PR who declares meeting the PR RO in circumstances the Visa Office might have questions about, I do not know.
 
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