Fraud or not?

[mandyshine2009]

Exit date entered january 2 2015 in pr card form renewal 1 year ago. PR card was approved.

Exit date entered january 2 2016 in prtd form 1 week ago. Application was recently sent and not yet finalized.

January 2 2015 is the wrong date and I wasn't aware that the it was a ARRIVAL stamping error in my home country. The airport immigration guys stamped january 2 2015 instead of january 2 2016, ARRIVAL STAMP. January 2 2016 is the accurate ARRIVAL one.

Now the problem is pr card was renewed with january 2 2015.

In prtd I calculated i don't meet ro with january 2 2015 date. I was shocked how could this happen. I have spent enough to meet ro. I checked properly and found out about the error. So now in prtd I wrote january 2 2016 and also wrote a cover letter explaining about the error with some proof.

is this considered fraud? what happens in this case? Do they verify previous forms and recent one? Is this considered misrepresentation of facts? i am so worried.

thanks

 

[vensak]

Exit date entered january 2 2015 in pr card form renewal 1 year ago. PR card was approved.

Exit date entered january 2 2016 in prtd form 1 week ago. Application was recently sent and not yet finalized.

January 2 2015 is the wrong date and I wasn't aware that the it was a stamping error in my home country. The airport immigration guys stamped january 2 2015 instead of january 2 2016. January 2 2016 is the accurate one.

Now the problem is pr card was renewed with january 2 2015.

In prtd I calculated i don't meet ro with january 2 2015 date. I was shocked how could this happen. I have spent enough to meet ro. I checked properly and found out about the error. So now in prtd I wrote january 2 2016 and also wrote a cover letter explaining about the error with some proof.

is this considered fraud? what happens in this case? Do they verify previous forms and recent one? Is this considered misrepresentation of facts? i am so worried.

thanks

From what you are saying you were actually admitting less days in Canada than what you stayed.
Since the mistake is coming from your passport that was not stamped correctly, I would assume that a proper LOE with further evidence when you were travelling, shall help to solve the problem.

Good luck.

 

[mandyshine2009]

From what you are saying you were actually admitting less days in Canada than what you stayed.
Since the mistake is coming from your passport that was not stamped correctly, I would assume that a proper LOE with further evidence when you were travelling, shall help to solve the problem.

Good luck.

so what shall I do now. Are they going to reject the prtd on grounds of misrepresentation and fraud and ban me buy revoking the pr status. I haven't seen ghost but this single thought helps me in seeing ghost so freaking clearly it's really scary my friend.

 

[dabas]

so what shall I do now. Are they going to reject the prtd on grounds of misrepresentation and fraud and ban me buy revoking the pr status. I haven't seen ghost but this single thought helps me in seeing ghost so freaking clearly it's really scary my friend.

Can't you just obtain your travel movement from this country?

 

[vensak]

so what shall I do now. Are they going to reject the prtd on grounds of misrepresentation and fraud and ban me buy revoking the pr status. I haven't seen ghost but this single thought helps me in seeing ghost so freaking clearly it's really scary my friend.

Would you try to change something you would do it in your favour and not the opposite way. You have the prove in your passport as well (the wrong stamp).
With stated above it is highly unlikely that any CIC officer will go after it. Send your LOE with additional proof and that shall close the matter.

 

[Almost_Canadian]

The issue seems to be :
Exit date from home country (entered wrongly by you ) as Jan 2, 2015 : was it on a trip coming back to Canada ? In that case, that would have added 1 year to your residence record of stay in Canada when you renewed your PR. Means an extra year of residence in Canada shown by you at that time.
If this date was corrected to Jan 2, 2016 , would it have affected your PR renewal at that time ? Means would days of residence still be over 730 days in preceding 5 years at time of that renewal using the date of Jan 2, 2016 ?
If your total days in Canada ( counting as Jan 2 , 2016 instead of error Jan 2, 2015) are 730 days or more, then you should be ok.
Of course, since there is now an error, they will probably do a full recheck and only then issue the PRTD.

 

[mandyshine2009]

The issue seems to be :
Exit date from home country (entered wrongly by you ) as Jan 2, 2015 : was it on a trip coming back to Canada ? In that case, that would have added 1 year to your residence record of stay in Canada when you renewed your PR. Means an extra year of residence in Canada shown by you at that time.
If this date was corrected to Jan 2, 2016 , would it have affected your PR renewal at that time ? Means would days of residence still be over 730 days in preceding 5 years at time of that renewal using the date of Jan 2, 2016 ?
If your total days in Canada ( counting as Jan 2 , 2016 instead of error Jan 2, 2015) are 730 days or more, then you should be ok.
Of course, since there is now an error, they will probably do a full recheck and only then issue the PRTD.

No, it's the exit date from Canada. The dates posted above are all arrival stamp in my home country. No difference in pr card renewal because even of this error the ro was met. The problem is now when applying for prtd because it says I don't meet ro and when I dig deeper I came to know about this stamp error.

 

[Almost_Canadian]

Since CBSA doesn't keep exit records ( at least officially ), the officer reviewing PRTD is going to check dates you have written against the stamps in passport. Based on that there is going to be a discrepancy of 1 year in records. If he/she chooses to use the stamp as the valid date then it will be up to you to show evidence that you were in Canada during the period of 1 year of discrepancy between stamp and your actual record.
Maybe air tickets showing date of Jan 2 2016 and other proof of your stay in Canada - utility bills, rent agreements etc

 

[mandyshine2009]

Since CBSA doesn't keep exit records ( at least officially ), the officer reviewing PRTD is going to check dates you have written against the stamps in passport. Based on that there is going to be a discrepancy of 1 year in records. If he/she chooses to use the stamp as the valid date then it will be up to you to show evidence that you were in Canada during the period of 1 year of discrepancy between stamp and your actual record.
Maybe air tickets showing date of Jan 2 2016 and other proof of your stay in Canada - utility bills, rent agreements etc

at least officially means? Do they keep records unofficially and how? thanks

 

[dpenabill]

I do not understand the facts well enough to offer anything close to definitive observations.

I can say, generally, that mistakes are not fraud. And IRCC is usually good at distinguishing what is a mistake versus a deliberate misrepresentation (fraud). While this is not always easy, not always so clear, IRCC will USUALLY sort one from the other and will often accept, or even assume, that a factual discrepancy is due to mistake not deliberate misrepresentation unless there are relatively clear or even egregious indications of deceptive intent.

The larger and potentially problematic issue is probably compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Again, I do not understand the facts well enough to so much as guess to what extent this is a potential problem. But it appears the extent of absence in conjunction with discrepancies could pose some problems.

It is worth remembering that even entirely innocent mistakes show that the person is NOT a reliable reporter. IRCC does not have to perceive, let alone conclude, a PR has deliberately made a misrepresentation in order to have concerns about the PR's credibility. How much so, how much the PR's credibility might be seen as compromised, will of course vary widely. Isolated or small mistakes, typos in particular, do not typically mean the PR's credibility is much compromised. Big mistakes or numerous mistakes, however, can severely compromise IRCC's perception of the PR's credibility, no matter how innocent the mistakes are. Lots of variation in-between.

What matters most, probably, is how much time the OP has spent in Canada within the five years immediately preceding the date the OP made the PR Travel Document application, and perhaps being able to prove that (such as with evidence to show, including dates, where the OP was living, working, going to school, worshiping, or volunteering in Canada; that is evidence to show whatever it is the OP was doing while in Canada).


A bit about the facts: Again, I am not clear about the facts. On one hand the OP indicates the error is about a date the OP exited Canada. But then the OP suggests the error derived from a passport stamp from a country other than Canada. Another country may have put an erroneous date the PR entered or exited that country, but would not stamp the PR's passport at all (thus neither erroneously nor correctly) to show when the PR exited Canada. While it appears to be common practice, PR's should NOT rely on other country stamps when reporting the date the PR entered or exited Canada (many times, if not more often than not, entry stamps into another country are, at the least, a day OFF relative to when the PR exited Canada; and otherwise they only show a date the PR was abroad and NOTHING about when the PR was in Canada). The PR should ALWAYS accurately report the date the PR exited Canada, the date the PR entered Canada. Since the PR was there each and every time, the PR not only has this information but the PR is the ONE BEST SOURCE of this information. (Which is a big part of the reason it is so important to protect one's credibility: so that when the PR provides this information it is believed, it is relied on.)

BUT of course travel dates do not stand alone in either a PR card application or a PR Travel Document application. The PR also provides address and work history. The address and work history helps IRCC compare information, like travel dates. This can help the applicant when it helps IRCC recognize that this or that particular date appears to be a mistake, where it is inconsistent with the other information provided.


A bit about the PROCEDURE:

Here too I am not clear about the procedure to date. If a PR Travel Document application is in process, that is what now really matters. Possible outcomes include:
-- PR TD granted (PR then returns to Canada, retrieves PR card, all is well)
-- PR TD is denied (if the application is denied it is imperative, to keep PR status, that the PR APPEAL, which requires further discussion)
-- Visa Office sends PR request for additional information or evidence (this would be an opportunity for the PR to fully explain the relevant facts and circumstances and include evidence proving where in Canada the PR lived, worked, and so on, and of course the dates for that; important to really make the case showing compliance with PR RO)

There have been only a few reports of the latter, the request for additional information or documents. Hard to say whether this is unusual or not. Most reports indicate the Visa Office usually approves or denies the application for a PR TD. If approved, no problem.

As I noted, if the PR TD application is denied, it is imperative the PR appeal this decision in order to keep PR status. If the PR has been in Canada within the preceding year, the PR can appeal and also apply for a special PR TD allowing the PR to return to Canada pending the appeal. An application for a special PR TD can be made even if the PR has not been in Canada within the preceding year, but it way, way less likely to be granted.

 

[mandyshine2009]

I do not understand the facts well enough to offer anything close to definitive observations.

I can say, generally, that mistakes are not fraud. And IRCC is usually good at distinguishing what is a mistake versus a deliberate misrepresentation (fraud). While this is not always easy, not always so clear, IRCC will USUALLY sort one from the other and will often accept, or even assume, that a factual discrepancy is due to mistake not deliberate misrepresentation unless there are relatively clear or even egregious indications of deceptive intent.

The larger and potentially problematic issue is probably compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Again, I do not understand the facts well enough to so much as guess to what extent this is a potential problem. But it appears the extent of absence in conjunction with discrepancies could pose some problems.

It is worth remembering that even entirely innocent mistakes show that the person is NOT a reliable reporter. IRCC does not have to perceive, let alone conclude, a PR has deliberately made a misrepresentation in order to have concerns about the PR's credibility. How much so, how much the PR's credibility might be seen as compromised, will of course vary widely. Isolated or small mistakes, typos in particular, do not typically mean the PR's credibility is much compromised. Big mistakes or numerous mistakes, however, can severely compromise IRCC's perception of the PR's credibility, no matter how innocent the mistakes are. Lots of variation in-between.

What matters most, probably, is how much time the OP has spent in Canada within the five years immediately preceding the date the OP made the PR Travel Document application, and perhaps being able to prove that (such as with evidence to show, including dates, where the OP was living, working, going to school, worshiping, or volunteering in Canada; that is evidence to show whatever it is the OP was doing while in Canada).


A bit about the facts: Again, I am not clear about the facts. On one hand the OP indicates the error is about a date the OP exited Canada. But then the OP suggests the error derived from a passport stamp from a country other than Canada. Another country may have put an erroneous date the PR entered or exited that country, but would not stamp the PR's passport at all (thus neither erroneously nor correctly) to show when the PR exited Canada. While it appears to be common practice, PR's should NOT rely on other country stamps when reporting the date the PR entered or exited Canada (many times, if not more often than not, entry stamps into another country are, at the least, a day OFF relative to when the PR exited Canada; and otherwise they only show a date the PR was abroad and NOTHING about when the PR was in Canada). The PR should ALWAYS accurately report the date the PR exited Canada, the date the PR entered Canada. Since the PR was there each and every time, the PR not only has this information but the PR is the ONE BEST SOURCE of this information. (Which is a big part of the reason it is so important to protect one's credibility: so that when the PR provides this information it is believed, it is relied on.)

BUT of course travel dates do not stand alone in either a PR card application or a PR Travel Document application. The PR also provides address and work history. The address and work history helps IRCC compare information, like travel dates. This can help the applicant when it helps IRCC recognize that this or that particular date appears to be a mistake, where it is inconsistent with the other information provided.


A bit about the PROCEDURE:

Here too I am not clear about the procedure to date. If a PR Travel Document application is in process, that is what now really matters. Possible outcomes include:
-- PR TD granted (PR then returns to Canada, retrieves PR card, all is well)
-- PR TD is denied (if the application is denied it is imperative, to keep PR status, that the PR APPEAL, which requires further discussion)
-- Visa Office sends PR request for additional information or evidence (this would be an opportunity for the PR to fully explain the relevant facts and circumstances and include evidence proving where in Canada the PR lived, worked, and so on, and of course the dates for that; important to really make the case showing compliance with PR RO)

There have been only a few reports of the latter, the request for additional information or documents. Hard to say whether this is unusual or not. Most reports indicate the Visa Office usually approves or denies the application for a PR TD. If approved, no problem.

As I noted, if the PR TD application is denied, it is imperative the PR appeal this decision in order to keep PR status. If the PR has been in Canada within the preceding year, the PR can appeal and also apply for a special PR TD allowing the PR to return to Canada pending the appeal. An application for a special PR TD can be made even if the PR has not been in Canada within the preceding year, but it way, way less likely to be granted.

Thanks hopefully, everything goes well.

Another question: After 1 year interval pr card was approved 1 month ago. Does that mean they will expedite the process of prtd or won't check in details or won't raise any residency trigger because ircc sydney already determined the residency obligation. Any idea ? Thank you.

 

[Almost_Canadian]

If your PR card was approved one month ago, it would be based on counting back 5 years from the date you signed in your application. Now if you were in Canada, then your PR obligation is not a problem as you would still be in compliance and you just need to go and pick up your card and show them the required documents.
But since you are outside Canada, the officer checking your PRTD application needs to ensure that as of the date of your application for PRTD and even while he is processing this application, you are still in compliance with PR obligation.
So he will check for PR obligation from the date you signed on your application for PRTD and count back 5 years from that date.The implication being that when your PR card renewal was approved, you might have been in compliance on that date but are you still in compliance as of this new date ?
If currently you are sitll in compliance with PR obligation even though you are overseas then it should not be a problem to get the PRTD.

 

[mandyshine2009]

If your PR card was approved one month ago, it would be based on counting back 5 years from the date you signed in your application. Now if you were in Canada, then your PR obligation is not a problem as you would still be in compliance and you just need to go and pick up your card and show them the required documents.
But since you are outside Canada, the officer checking your PRTD application needs to ensure that as of the date of your application for PRTD and even while he is processing this application, you are still in compliance with PR obligation.
So he will check for PR obligation from the date you signed on your application for PRTD and count back 5 years from that date.The implication being that when your PR card renewal was approved, you might have been in compliance on that date but are you still in compliance as of this new date ?
If currently you are sitll in compliance with PR obligation even though you are overseas then it should not be a problem to get the PRTD.

thank you,

The ircc office told me to bring just passport and another extra identity documents and call in notice. No more docs requested. What are they going to do there? Just see the passport and give the pr card? or is this a kind of interview?

 

[Almost_Canadian]

If I recall correctly, the PRTD form asks you to list all your absences from Canada over the last 5 years from date of application.
The officer will probably go through those dates and match with the stamps on the passport.

 

[mandyshine2009]

If I recall correctly, the PRTD form asks you to list all your absences from Canada over the last 5 years from date of application.
The officer will probably go through those dates and match with the stamps on the passport.

Do these officers really go through all the stamps? I myself get headache whenever I look at those stamps. Afterall they have to see many applications every day, what are the chances of them skipping the stamp check and granting prtd? Does this happen or is there a strict code to be followed by these officers? I mean there's a chance a officer is fully bored on a given day..