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For Express Entry, what makes an LMIA Exempt religious job a job vs volunteering

cedricpr

Member
Jan 16, 2018
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Under "LMIA-exempt job offers – Skilled immigrants (Express Entry)"
it says that an LMIA job that has been worked for a year and for which there is also a job offer is valid for EE under the CEC. But, the question is this: what amount of remuneration makes it job instead of volunteer work?

I am being offered a meditation instruction job at a buddhist monastery. I will get room and board. But, I would only get a stipend of $500 a month.
Would that be enough to make this count as a job instead of 'volunteer work'?

Thanks

And see link below for further clarification.


https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/become-candidate/eligibility/offer-employment/lmia-exempt.html
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
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Category........
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Job Offer........
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App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
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Under "LMIA-exempt job offers – Skilled immigrants (Express Entry)"
it says that an LMIA-exempt job that has been worked for a year for the same employer named on the work permit and for which there is also a job offer is valid for EE under the CEC.
No, what it says is if you meet those criteria, you may be eligible for extra points as having a "valid job offer" - this is not mandatory to be eligible under EE / CEC.

But, the question is this: what amount of remuneration makes it job instead of volunteer work?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/apply-who-permit-result.asp?q1_options=1e

I am being offered a meditation instruction job at a buddhist monastery. I will get room and board. But, I would only get a stipend of $500 a month.
Would that be enough to make this count as a job instead of 'volunteer work'?

See the above link. It would count as employment and require a work permit. Note that your room & board are part of your remuneration.
 
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cedricpr

Member
Jan 16, 2018
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Hey jes_ON
Thank you very much for your reply.
1) So, to clarify, the stipend amount probably doesn't matter as the room and board would be sufficient remuneration to support the claim that it is a job instead of a volunteer position?

And, an additional question: could this job offer be used now (before working the job for a year) as a valid job offer in order to get the 50 extra CRS points towards EE PR, or could I only use the job offer to get the extra 50 points after a year of working it?

Thank you
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,088
1,421
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
Hey jes_ON
Thank you very much for your reply.
1) So, to clarify, the stipend amount probably doesn't matter as the room and board would be sufficient remuneration to support the claim that it is a job instead of a volunteer position?

Ah, no. Did you read the information at the link I provided? They have very specific criteria for "religious worker" vs volunteer, which I think you meet (instruction). It isn't about the money, it's about the work that you do (the expectation is that many religious workers do not get paid much, if at all).

Your remuneration is stipend + room + board.


And, an additional question: could this job offer be used now (before working the job for a year) as a valid job offer in order to get the 50 extra CRS points towards EE PR, or could I only use the job offer to get the extra 50 points after a year of working it?

You haven't understood that info either. To answer the question, no, and maybe.

Do you have any experience with which to qualify now?
 
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cedricpr

Member
Jan 16, 2018
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Hey Jes,
Thank you again for your response.

There maybe a little misunderstanding.
Yes I get it that getting the temporary religious worker visa would be easy. In my case, given this job offer I would get that visa, no problem.

My questions are mostly focused on this job's ability to increase my CRS score for PR.

My first question is if this job offer could be used now for applying for PR via EE and get the 50 extra points (seems like the answer is no and that I'd have to work the job on the LMIA exempt religious worker visa for a year before I could use for a EE and get points for it). Question 2: after one year of working the job could I use it for the CEC qualification (answer seems to be yes) and question 3: after the first year of work in this job could I use it as a valid job offer that would garner another 50 CRS points (answer also seems to be yes)? The fourth question: how does the remuneration issue figure into the validity of the job for use as (4a) CEC and (4b) valid job offer for PR via EE (ie getting the extra 50 CRS points). - specifically, I would happily take the job with just food and board and without the $500 monthly stipend (this work is my passion and the money is no big deal). So, I would like to be able to take the job with just the room and board offer and without the $500/monthly stipend. But I could request the $500 stipend if it would help my PR case vis-a-vis questions 4a and 4b.

On a side note my CRS score as it stands is about 430.

responding to your question: Do you have any experience with which to qualify now? CEC experience: no, none. Meditation experience and training in this tradition of buddhism: yes, a lot of it. Not totally sure what you were asking here.

Thanks Jes
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,088
1,421
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
Hey Jes,
Thank you again for your response.

There maybe a little misunderstanding.
Yes I get it that getting the temporary religious worker visa would be easy. In my case, given this job offer I would get that visa, no problem.
I have not talked at all about "visas" or more accurately, work permits. I simply gave you a link where IRCC defines the difference between volunteer and religious worker. That was your question, I provided the resource that answered your question.

My questions are mostly focused on this job's ability to increase my CRS score for PR.

My first question is if this job offer could be used now for applying for PR via EE and get the 50 extra points (seems like the answer is no and that I'd have to work the job on the LMIA exempt religious worker visa for a year before I could use for a EE and get points for it).
You would have to work for the SAME EMPLOYER for a year (full-time) before you would be eligible.

Question 2: after one year of working the job could I use it for the CEC qualification (answer seems to be yes)
If you work at least 30 hours per week, yes. If you work part-time, then it will take longer than a year to meet the 1 year equivalent.

and question 3: after the first year of work in this job could I use it as a valid job offer that would garner another 50 CRS points (answer also seems to be yes)?
No. Having a job is not the same thing as having a valid job offer of (FUTURE) employment. After you have met the 1 year requirement, your employer would then have to give you a written offer of FUTURE full-time permanent employment (or for a minimum of one year) AFTER you become a permanent resident.

The fourth question: how does the remuneration issue figure into the validity of the job for use as (4a) CEC
Back to the volunteer vs worker question. Volunteers are not eligible. Workers are.

and (4b) valid job offer for PR via EE (ie getting the extra 50 CRS points). If it is deemed employment for CEC purposes, the same would be true RE valid job offer.

specifically, I would happily take the job with just food and board and without the $500 monthly stipend (this work is my passion and the money is no big deal). So, I would like to be able to take the job with just the room and board offer and without the $500/monthly stipend. But I could request the $500 stipend if it would help my PR case vis-a-vis questions 4a and 4b.

I would suggest taking the stipend. If there is no cash remuneration, it's more likely that IRCC will consider it to be volunteer. And you may be surprised to find out how expensive Canada is. If it turns out you don't need the money, you can always donate it to someone or some organization for whom it is a big deal.

On a side note my CRS score as it stands is about 430.
One year of Canadian work experience would give you enough points to earn an ITA. Have completed the language test and ECA?

responding to your question: Do you have any experience with which to qualify now? CEC experience: no, none. Meditation experience and training in this tradition of buddhism: yes, a lot of it. Not totally sure what you were asking here.

To qualify under any of the express entry programs, you have to have sufficient prior (skilled) work experience (minimum one year full-time (or equivalent in part-time). For FSW, it has to be continuous experience. You have not indicated anything before this that suggests you even qualify for CEC, FSW, or FST. That is why I was asking about prior work experience. Work experience being paid employment, that is.
 
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cedricpr

Member
Jan 16, 2018
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Ok, got it. Thanks Jes,
I haven't yet submitted my university degrees for assessment. They are degrees from reputable universities in the US. And I haven't taken a language test yet, either. Figuring to take the Cilpips as it is nearer to my own American english and also all computerized.
Yes I have over 10 years of professional work experience.
 

cedricpr

Member
Jan 16, 2018
11
0
Hello Jes_ON,
Assuming I want to roll this into PR eligibility, and that I'd want to be able to qualify for provincial health care for me and my wife, would I want to apply for a temporary work visa under IRPR r. 205(d) or IRPR r. 186(l)?
Thanks