The Calculator asks if you were on a TR, student visa or work permit before landing date. if you say no, these days won't be counted as half days even if you didn't include the absent time before landing. So, i will have to gently disagree with you
Physical Presence Calculator
- Thread starter robinhood_1984
- Start date
Yes i said no in that , and then i didnt included the time spent in my home country. Since the caculator says '' days you left canada'' and the day you entered canada. so in my case i never came to canada before becoming pr. did you include those absence in your physical presence calculator"?
Mea culpa then !
The calculator still asks about the absences between the day you sign and the day exactly 5 years prior, not the date of the PR in case the person answers no to that one.
But in that case, while it's still the textbook answer to list the absence, it probably has a minimal effect on the application for most people.
To be clear (with some further procedural observations):
The instructions for the presence calculator explicitly state that the applicant should disclose all absences from Canada FOR THE FULL FIVE YEAR ELIGIBILITY PERIOD, with NO regard for the date the applicant first entered Canada, or the date the applicant became a PR.
That is the instruction. There is no doubt, the BEST PRACTICE is almost always to follow the instructions. Again, the instructions call for the applicant to disclose all absences for the full five year eligibility period.
That said, for the applicant who checks "no" to not having had any status in Canada prior to becoming a PR, the FAILURE to follow the instructions, the failure to enter the absence prior to becoming a PR, SHOULD have little or no effect. The presence calculator outcome should show ZERO (0) days present for the period prior to landing.
BUT, BUT, BUT . . . the real key to this NOT being a problem is whether or not the presence calculator outcome ACTUALLY is an accurate accounting of days present in Canada. In particular, it is imperative that the outcome (for such applicants) shows ZERO (0) days present for any period of time prior to the date of landing and becoming a PR.
It should. That is what the outcome should be. But individual circumstances vary widely and it is also easy to make a mistake without realizing a mistake has been made, so for the applicant who has not followed the instructions by not disclosing absence prior to becoming a PR:
-- if the presence calculator outcome shows zero days present for any period of time prior to landing, odds are very good all is OK
-- if the presence calculator outcome shows something other than zero days present for pre-landing period, something else also was off and this could be, and in many circumstances would be, a problem
Overall: the Presence Calculator is designed to accommodate and accurately calculate all days present and all days absent FOR THE FULL FIVE YEAR PERIOD, so long as the applicant accurately enters the information itself, including properly answering the questions asked (like whether the applicant had status in Canada prior to becoming a PR AND accurately entering all dates relative to time in Canada and time outside Canada). The applicant does not need to separately address time before landing versus time after landing, again so long as the applicant accurately enters the information itself, including properly answering the questions asked.
CIT 0407 "HOW TO CALCULATE PHYSICAL PRESENCE" in Contrast:
The hard copy form CIT 0407, which can be used instead of the presence calculator (noting, however, IRCC strongly encourages and appears to strongly prefer the use of the Presence Calculator), is structured differently. It has two completely separate tables for entering travel history dates. One is specifically for travel history dates AFTER the date of landing. The other is specifically for travel history dates PRIOR to landing and ONLY FOR APPLICANTS who had status in Canada prior to becoming a PR.
This is very different from how the data itself is entered into the Presence Calculator, which automatically sorts and calculates BOTH pre-PR credits (if any) and after landing credits, again so long as the questions are properly answered and the data entered is accurate.
Some forum participants urge that this somehow governs how the Presence Calculator instructions should be interpreted. My impression is this view is rooted in an approach which I have often cautioned against, that is interpreting instructions based on what the applicant concludes IRCC is looking for rather than following the literal instruction. While historically there have been some exceptions, generally that is a bad idea and the BEST PRACTICE is almost always to follow the instructions, not a subjective or personal interpretation of the instructions.
There are reasons why IRCC prefers the use of the online Presence Calculator and submission of its outcome. The elimination of arithmetic mistake (so long as all data is correctly entered) is a huge reason. The consistency of the outcome is a big reason.
Accuracy Of Other Information In The Application:
Everything has context. This is especially true of information entered into the citizenship application and information entered into the online Presence Calculator. Context is important. Relationship of information entered in one part of the application compared to information in another part is important.
The extent to which a processing agent will cross-check information provided in response to various items in the application and information submitted in the printout from the online Presence Calculator undoubtedly varies. At the very least there is a cursory cross-check. For certain information it is highly likely there are some standard fairly thorough cross-checks. Comparison of locations in work history with the address history is veritably for-sure.
It is highly likely the applicant's travel history dates are, at the least, compared with and assessed relative to other information in the application, like the applicant's work and address history.
Reminder: the application explicitly and very clearly instructs the applicant to enter work history and address history FOR THE FULL FIVE YEAR ELIGIBILITY PERIOD.
NOTE: there is NO indication, none at all, that such cross-checking is done in the completeness check (some forum participants have speculated that AOR means the application has been 80% processed; AOR really only means the application has been ONE percent processed). So the fact the application gets AOR says nothing, nothing at all, about whether cross-checking information in the application indicates a problem.
Thus, for example, most potential mistakes an applicant might make will NOT be discovered during the completeness check, will NOT result in the application being returned, and thus will NOT interfere with or preclude AOR. That is, an application is likely to get AOR regardless of the mistakes made. (Applications are returned because the applicant failed to provide necessary information or necessary documents, or otherwise failed to submit information sufficient to meet the requirements for processing an application. Otherwise the application gets AOR, which has NO bearing, ZERO bearing, on the substantive merits of the application.)
We do not know for-sure, but IP (In Process) probably does indicate some degree of substantive assessment has been done, which probably includes some cross-checking of information. Nonetheless, it is quite clear that the primary assessment of the information itself, including cross-checking information in the application and Presence Calculator printout, is done by a processing agent in the local office, typically in preparation for or at least attendant the Interview.
Ultimately, of course the applicant's response in particular parts of the application and the Presence Calculator printout will be cross-checked. For most applicants, obviously it is likely the applicant's work and address history, and response to specific items like item 10.b (did the applicant spend 183 or more days in another country), will be compared to absence and presence history disclosed in the Presence Calculator printout.
And of course inconsistencies will tend to elevate the odds IRCC will have concerns, questions, or doubts, and thus increase the risk of problems.
The qualified applicant who diligently and carefully follows the instructions, the literal instructions, and who provides honest, accurate, and responsively complete information to WHAT IS ACTUALLY ASKED and BASED ON THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS AND INSTRUCTIONS, has the best odds of sailing through the process smoothly, without problems, without delays.
The instructions for the presence calculator explicitly state that the applicant should disclose all absences from Canada FOR THE FULL FIVE YEAR ELIGIBILITY PERIOD, with NO regard for the date the applicant first entered Canada, or the date the applicant became a PR.
That is the instruction. There is no doubt, the BEST PRACTICE is almost always to follow the instructions. Again, the instructions call for the applicant to disclose all absences for the full five year eligibility period.
That said, for the applicant who checks "no" to not having had any status in Canada prior to becoming a PR, the FAILURE to follow the instructions, the failure to enter the absence prior to becoming a PR, SHOULD have little or no effect. The presence calculator outcome should show ZERO (0) days present for the period prior to landing.
BUT, BUT, BUT . . . the real key to this NOT being a problem is whether or not the presence calculator outcome ACTUALLY is an accurate accounting of days present in Canada. In particular, it is imperative that the outcome (for such applicants) shows ZERO (0) days present for any period of time prior to the date of landing and becoming a PR.
It should. That is what the outcome should be. But individual circumstances vary widely and it is also easy to make a mistake without realizing a mistake has been made, so for the applicant who has not followed the instructions by not disclosing absence prior to becoming a PR:
-- if the presence calculator outcome shows zero days present for any period of time prior to landing, odds are very good all is OK
-- if the presence calculator outcome shows something other than zero days present for pre-landing period, something else also was off and this could be, and in many circumstances would be, a problem
Overall: the Presence Calculator is designed to accommodate and accurately calculate all days present and all days absent FOR THE FULL FIVE YEAR PERIOD, so long as the applicant accurately enters the information itself, including properly answering the questions asked (like whether the applicant had status in Canada prior to becoming a PR AND accurately entering all dates relative to time in Canada and time outside Canada). The applicant does not need to separately address time before landing versus time after landing, again so long as the applicant accurately enters the information itself, including properly answering the questions asked.
CIT 0407 "HOW TO CALCULATE PHYSICAL PRESENCE" in Contrast:
The hard copy form CIT 0407, which can be used instead of the presence calculator (noting, however, IRCC strongly encourages and appears to strongly prefer the use of the Presence Calculator), is structured differently. It has two completely separate tables for entering travel history dates. One is specifically for travel history dates AFTER the date of landing. The other is specifically for travel history dates PRIOR to landing and ONLY FOR APPLICANTS who had status in Canada prior to becoming a PR.
This is very different from how the data itself is entered into the Presence Calculator, which automatically sorts and calculates BOTH pre-PR credits (if any) and after landing credits, again so long as the questions are properly answered and the data entered is accurate.
Some forum participants urge that this somehow governs how the Presence Calculator instructions should be interpreted. My impression is this view is rooted in an approach which I have often cautioned against, that is interpreting instructions based on what the applicant concludes IRCC is looking for rather than following the literal instruction. While historically there have been some exceptions, generally that is a bad idea and the BEST PRACTICE is almost always to follow the instructions, not a subjective or personal interpretation of the instructions.
There are reasons why IRCC prefers the use of the online Presence Calculator and submission of its outcome. The elimination of arithmetic mistake (so long as all data is correctly entered) is a huge reason. The consistency of the outcome is a big reason.
Accuracy Of Other Information In The Application:
Everything has context. This is especially true of information entered into the citizenship application and information entered into the online Presence Calculator. Context is important. Relationship of information entered in one part of the application compared to information in another part is important.
The extent to which a processing agent will cross-check information provided in response to various items in the application and information submitted in the printout from the online Presence Calculator undoubtedly varies. At the very least there is a cursory cross-check. For certain information it is highly likely there are some standard fairly thorough cross-checks. Comparison of locations in work history with the address history is veritably for-sure.
It is highly likely the applicant's travel history dates are, at the least, compared with and assessed relative to other information in the application, like the applicant's work and address history.
Reminder: the application explicitly and very clearly instructs the applicant to enter work history and address history FOR THE FULL FIVE YEAR ELIGIBILITY PERIOD.
NOTE: there is NO indication, none at all, that such cross-checking is done in the completeness check (some forum participants have speculated that AOR means the application has been 80% processed; AOR really only means the application has been ONE percent processed). So the fact the application gets AOR says nothing, nothing at all, about whether cross-checking information in the application indicates a problem.
Thus, for example, most potential mistakes an applicant might make will NOT be discovered during the completeness check, will NOT result in the application being returned, and thus will NOT interfere with or preclude AOR. That is, an application is likely to get AOR regardless of the mistakes made. (Applications are returned because the applicant failed to provide necessary information or necessary documents, or otherwise failed to submit information sufficient to meet the requirements for processing an application. Otherwise the application gets AOR, which has NO bearing, ZERO bearing, on the substantive merits of the application.)
We do not know for-sure, but IP (In Process) probably does indicate some degree of substantive assessment has been done, which probably includes some cross-checking of information. Nonetheless, it is quite clear that the primary assessment of the information itself, including cross-checking information in the application and Presence Calculator printout, is done by a processing agent in the local office, typically in preparation for or at least attendant the Interview.
Ultimately, of course the applicant's response in particular parts of the application and the Presence Calculator printout will be cross-checked. For most applicants, obviously it is likely the applicant's work and address history, and response to specific items like item 10.b (did the applicant spend 183 or more days in another country), will be compared to absence and presence history disclosed in the Presence Calculator printout.
And of course inconsistencies will tend to elevate the odds IRCC will have concerns, questions, or doubts, and thus increase the risk of problems.
The qualified applicant who diligently and carefully follows the instructions, the literal instructions, and who provides honest, accurate, and responsively complete information to WHAT IS ACTUALLY ASKED and BASED ON THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS AND INSTRUCTIONS, has the best odds of sailing through the process smoothly, without problems, without delays.
DK84
Hero Member
- Aug 29, 2012
- 8
- 123
- Category........
- Visa Office......
- Sydney, Nova Scotia
- NOC Code......
- 1431
- Job Offer........
- Pre-Assessed..
- App. Filed.......
- 07-01-2013 CIO
- Doc's Request.
- 09-05-2013
- Nomination.....
- 06-12-2012
- AOR Received.
- N/A
- IELTS Request
- N/A
- File Transfer...
- 12-02-2013
- Med's Request
- 16-02-2013
- Med's Done....
- 24-02-2013
- Interview........
- N/A
- Passport Req..
- 27-08-2013/ Decesion Made: August 31, 2013
- VISA ISSUED...
- 11-09-2013
- LANDED..........
- 15-09-2013
I have started counting physical presence calculator, but I am stuck in initial stages.....I became permanent resident on September 15th, 2013 but I don't remember my status that time because my work permit was expired on December 6th, 2012 and on same day I got my SINP certificate, later in January 2013 I sent application for PR, so I am not sure about my status between December 6th, 2012 to September 15, 2013.
Here I don't know what to mention.......
Please only list the periods of time you had authorized temporary resident or protected person status in Canada and the type of status you had between 2013-03-22 and 2013-09-14 and select Add Entry. Select Calculate when you have finished listing all periods of temporary residence.
Can anyone advise ?
Thanks
Here I don't know what to mention.......
Please only list the periods of time you had authorized temporary resident or protected person status in Canada and the type of status you had between 2013-03-22 and 2013-09-14 and select Add Entry. Select Calculate when you have finished listing all periods of temporary residence.
Can anyone advise ?
Thanks
Hi Buddy,
I have 53 pages of my history. Can you please guide me, how can I calculate my days?
Thanks