Physical Presence - Before coming to Canada

[iamroth]

Hello,

In physical presence calculator it asks

"Did you leave Canada between 2013-03-13 and 2018-03-13? Answer 'Yes' if you left Canada for any reason including vacation, work, business, family matters, school, illness, etc."

Now I only landed on 2014-08-12. I have not been to Canada before this date.
So do I include that 2013-01-13 to 2014-08-12 in the physical calculator?

It is very sad that an application of this nature has so many issues!

 

[dpenabill]

If the applicant was outside Canada as of the beginning of the eligibility period, in the presence calculator be sure to check "yes" as to travel outside Canada during the eligibility period, which will open interface for entering travel history dates, and then list the first day of the eligibility period as the "From" date and then the "To" date will be the first (or next) entry date into Canada. Not complicated. This will clearly show dates outside Canada during the eligibility period.

 

[muhammad092]

If the applicant was outside Canada as of the beginning of the eligibility period, in the presence calculator be sure to check "yes" as to travel outside Canada during the eligibility period, which will open interface for entering travel history dates, and then list the first day of the eligibility period as the "From" date and then the "To" date will be the first (or next) entry date into Canada. Not complicated. This will clearly show dates outside Canada during the eligibility period.

Hi, Do we have to list absences from canada even before becoming a pr? (i was not a student status or never visited canada before). i didnt list any before becoming pr. i came in canada as a pr

 

[dpenabill]

Hi, Do we have to list absences from canada even before becoming a pr? (i was not a student status or never visited canada before). i didnt list any before becoming pr. i came in canada as a pr

The applicant is asked to provide work history, address history, and travel history for the FULL FIVE YEAR ELIGIBILITY PERIOD.

In my previous post I explain how to enter travel history in the presence calculator for absences prior to coming to Canada.

 

[muhammad092]

The applicant is asked to provide work history, address history, and travel history for the FULL FIVE YEAR ELIGIBILITY PERIOD.

In my previous post I explain how to enter travel history in the presence calculator for absences prior to coming to Canada.

i never came to canada until as a pr. for the period before comming to canada how can i list because it asks for absences from canada-

 

[muhammad092]

The applicant is asked to provide work history, address history, and travel history for the FULL FIVE YEAR ELIGIBILITY PERIOD.

In my previous post I explain how to enter travel history in the presence calculator for absences prior to coming to Canada.

i didnt write my absences from canada before becoming pr ( during the eligiblity period) - as i only came to canada as a pr? does it makes a difference

 

[zardoz]

i didnt write my absences from canada before becoming pr ( during the eligiblity period) - as i only came to canada as a pr? does it makes a difference

If you left gaps in the eligibility period details, you will almost certainly have problems.

 

[iamroth]

@dpenabill It makes sense.

What does not make sense are the wordings of some of the Questions.

"Did you leave Canada between .....?", "When did you return to Canada" <--- These point toward someone who resided in Canada, then left and then returned back. So obviously to a newcomer (who never visited or resided in Canada), it may become confusing.

Short story: They want to know about the 5 years of your eligibility period. So enter those 5 years of travel history.

Anyways, think of the word "Absences from Canada" - and start filling out your absences during eligibility, dont bother if you were PR or not.

 

[iamroth]

Also I just found out, if you were not in Canada before landing as a PR, all of your previous years outside Canada counts as "0" absences.
So for us it is not a problem.

 

[dpenabill]

i never came to canada until as a pr. for the period before comming to canada how can i list because it asks for absences from canada-


i didnt write my absences from canada before becoming pr ( during the eligiblity period) - as i only came to canada as a pr? does it makes a difference

I do not know for-sure.

It should pass the completeness screening because that does not involve assessing the substance of the information submitted, just whether the relevant information is submitted.

If your presence calculation had an accurate outcome, that is it showed the correct number of days you should be credited with as present in Canada, that is the most critical part.

For the applicant who arrived and landed within the previous five years, who was not in Canada before landing, who checked "no" when asked about status in Canada prior to becoming a PR, and who did not leave Canada at all after arriving and landing, the failure to report the absence prior to landing is more or less a technical error and the presence calculator outcome should accurately show the days present. So this should NOT cause any serious problem, if any problem at all. IRCC is NOT engaged in a GOTCHA game. IRCC is NOT looking for technical reasons to trigger further inquiries and investigations. If the nature of the error is fairly clear on its face, and it does not affect the number of days declared present, my GUESS is there are good odds it will NOT be a serious problem.

Even for the applicant in very similar circumstances who, however, did have some absences after landing, and reported those accurately in the presence calculator, the odds are probably still fairly good that failing to account for days prior to coming to Canada will NOT cause a serious problem. But of course, if there are other mistakes and particularly if the tally of days present is not accurate, or other circumstances inviting concerns or questions, it could be a factor.

APPLICANTS DO NOT NEED TO SUBMIT A PERFECT APPLICATION. They should try, diligently try, to make the application as close to perfect as they can. And sure, some mistakes can be serious. But IRCC will roll along fine despite some mistakes so long as the actual requirements are in fact met.

 

[zardoz]

The issue arises of where exactly were you during the missing period and is a PCC required.

 

[dpenabill]

Also I just found out, if you were not in Canada before landing as a PR, all of your previous years outside Canada counts as "0" absences.
So for us it is not a problem.

The key is whether, for that period of time prior to landing, the calculator counts "0" days present. That is what really matters.

And so long as the applicant checked "no" for NO status in Canada prior to landing, the presence calculation should tally ZERO (0) days present for that period of time. So, again, that should not be a problem. Better to enter the absence as such, but it should not be a problem. It is a mistake but not one which should affect the outcome.

There is another discussion in a separate topic here where the applicant did have status prior to becoming a PR but failed to properly enter dates outside Canada prior to the date of landing . . . and that applicant does face the prospect of a problem and will need to get that sorted out in the course of processing the application.

Edit to add:

@zardoz does reference a significant factor. But of course the applicant should also be properly responding to item 10.b in the application, and if the applicant was in another particular country for 183 or more days during the preceding four years, the applicant should check "yes" for item 10.b and submit a police certificate.

 

[muhammad092]

The key is whether, for that period of time prior to landing, the calculator counts "0" days present. That is what really matters.

And so long as the applicant checked "no" for NO status in Canada prior to landing, the presence calculation should tally ZERO (0) days present for that period of time. So, again, that should not be a problem. Better to enter the absence as such, but it should not be a problem. It is a mistake but not one which should affect the outcome.

There is another discussion in a separate topic here where the applicant did have status prior to becoming a PR but failed to properly enter dates outside Canada prior to the date of landing . . . and that applicant does face the prospect of a problem and will need to get that sorted out in the course of processing the application.

Edit to add:

@zardoz does reference a significant factor. But of course the applicant should also be properly responding to item 10.b in the application, and if the applicant was in another particular country for 183 or more days during the preceding four years, the applicant should check "yes" for item 10.b and submit a police certificate.

Thankyou so much. One more thing when you look at the physical presence calculator pdf form it says for absences after becoming permanent resident of canada to use that section.

 

[btbt]

The wording in the online physical presence calculator is unclear when it comes to describing travels that happened before an applicant lived in Canada. The one exception is visits to Canada before landing -- there is a clear way to enter those.

Looking at CIT0407E, the form to use when manually calculating an applicant's physical presence, the fields are much clearer:

Section 1 is used to calculate the eligibility period (establishing the application date and the date 5 years before that).
Section 2 is used to calculate the time period between becoming a PR and applying for citizenship. The chart in this section is to be used for all trips made after becoming a PR (including day trips, which count as 0 days absence, but must be listed).
Section 3 is used to calculate the number of days in Canada as a Temporary Resident (TR) or Protected Person (PP) in the period before the application became a PR. The first chart in this section is to be used for all periods during which one held the status of TR or PP, and the second chart in this section is used to calculate absences from Canada during those periods.

The remainder of the form is where the number of days of physical presence is then calculated (adding the totals of section 2 and 3 together).

So someone who never visited Canada before their landing as PR does not have to list any trips made before that date. This also indicates that the physical presence calculation itself is not used to determine if an applicant requires a PCC.

Similarly, the FAQ for the online physical presence calculator (https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/redir.do?redir=faq) says that "all absences from Canada during your eligibility period, the five (5) years preceding the date of your application, must be declared. Therefore your absences during your time as a temporary resident or protected person within the eligibility period must be declared as well." (emphasis mine -- this implies that they are not looking for travels that are during a time when one is not a TR, PP, or PR)

 

[muhammad092]

The wording in the online physical presence calculator is unclear when it comes to describing travels that happened before an applicant lived in Canada. The one exception is visits to Canada before landing -- there is a clear way to enter those.

Looking at CIT0407E, the form to use when manually calculating an applicant's physical presence, the fields are much clearer:

Section 1 is used to calculate the eligibility period (establishing the application date and the date 5 years before that).
Section 2 is used to calculate the time period between becoming a PR and applying for citizenship. The chart in this section is to be used for all trips made after becoming a PR (including day trips, which count as 0 days absence, but must be listed).
Section 3 is used to calculate the number of days in Canada as a Temporary Resident (TR) or Protected Person (PP) in the period before the application became a PR. The first chart in this section is to be used for all periods during which one held the status of TR or PP, and the second chart in this section is used to calculate absences from Canada during those periods.

The remainder of the form is where the number of days of physical presence is then calculated (adding the totals of section 2 and 3 together).

So someone who never visited Canada before their landing as PR does not have to list any trips made before that date. This also indicates that the physical presence calculation itself is not used to determine if an applicant requires a PCC.

Similarly, the FAQ for the online physical presence calculator (https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/redir.do?redir=faq) says that "all absences from Canada during your eligibility period, the five (5) years preceding the date of your application, must be declared. Therefore your absences during your time as a temporary resident or protected person within the eligibility period must be declared as well." (emphasis mine -- this implies that they are not looking for travels that are during a time when one is not a TR, PP, or PR)

Thankyou so much. I got your point.