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October 11th 2017 - Citizenship Applicants under 3/5 rule

mqy

Member
Jan 18, 2018
15
3
While it may be the case that IRCC is not currently using RQ (CIT 0171) and instead is only issuing the PPQ - QAE with CIT 0205, that is NOT for sure, that is NOT known.

What is known is that the QAE did NOT replace RQ "in the new rules (3 out of 5)." This is known because the PPQ - QAE has been in use since at least May 2017, some five months prior to when the 3/5 rules took effect and a month prior to Bill C-6 even becoming law. (Currently used version CIT 0205 is the 11-2017 version; participants in this forum who received the PPQ prior to the change in rules report having received the CIT 0205 05-2017 version.)

While it is not absolutely certain, it is almost certain that IRCC will continue to issue a residency/presence questionnaire to SOME applicants based on risk indicators or reasons-to-question-presence. That is, RQ or a version of RQ will continue to be used, triggered by fact-based criteria; that is, FOR CAUSE. If in fact IRCC is now sending such applicants, selected pursuant to fact-based criteria, the PPQ CIT 0205, rather than RQ (CIT 0171), that can happen at ANY STAGE of processing, and as previously correctly noted, in the last two to three years this has more commonly happened at the time of the test/interview or following the test/interview. NOT at the time of IP. While most (BUT not all) of the approximately two dozen forum participants reporting PPQ - QAE since October report getting it proximate IP, NO WHERE NEAR enough time has passed to ascertain to what extent there will be more reports such as the recent one by @hmilywsx who reports receiving PPQ nearly three months after IP.

There is simply not enough evidence to support the proposition that nearly all applicants who will be issued a questionnaire about their presence will get it around the time the application is put into process. And if the percentage of applicants issued a questionnaire is much less than nearly all, that is NO assurance at all that two months after IP the applicant will not be required to respond to RQ (real RQ, CIT 0171) or PPQ - QAE (CIT 0205). (Note: "most" leaves a lot of room for many who are not among the most. That is arithmetic. Not particularly complicated arithmetic either.)




Perhaps RQ is more popular for you. But frankly I am not familiar with any other applicants for citizenship who consider RQ in any way popular.

That is not what you meant? I get that. Nonetheless, in an effort to better understand how things work and to learn ways to better navigate the process, there is a big difference between RQ CIT 0171 and PPQ CIT 0205, the latter in particular requires applicants to submit a Canadian citizen reference, includes a Finger Print request, and purports to be issued RANDOMLY.

The difference between issuing a profoundly intrusive questionnaire randomly, and issuing it for cause, should not be understated or underestimated. It is huge.

No popularity poll necessary to recognize that it is important to recognize such big differences. In this regard, applicants should be aware what is at stake when they have been issued a presence or residency questionnaire FOR CAUSE. That means there is some question about their qualification for citizenship. That means they need to take the opportunity to respond in a way which will fully meet the burden of proving their qualifications, with proof of presence in Canada high on that list. That means they can not rely on IRCC to give them the benefit of an inference of presence between last date of entry and next exit date, an inference which the vast majority of routinely processed applicants benefit from.



SUMMARY:

It is not certain that RQ has been replaced by PPQ (indeed, there have some reports of RQ (as in actually RQ, not PPQ confused with RQ) since IRCC began issuing PPQ).

To the extent participants in the PPQ - QAE are in fact being RANDOMLY selected, those will come from CPC-Sydney and around the same stage of processing. There are, however, significant questions about whether, despite IRCC's statement in its correspondence claiming it is random, whether the PPQ - QAE really is random; even if it is random, at least one report suggests it is sometimes issued at a later stage. And, moreover, either RQ or PPQ will almost certainly continue to be issued at various stages of processing where risk indicators are identified . . . .such as failure to present all passports at interview; discrepancy between passport stamps and presence calculation; discrepancy between presence calculation and CBSA travel history; suspect address identified; suspect employer identified; inconsistent information about applicant discovered in open source like LinkedIn, among other potential triggers for elevated scrutiny and requiring the applicant to affirmatively prove presence.

In the meantime, there is a lot to learn about how IRCC is going to proceed with those randomly selected for the PPQ - QAE, those who may be selected based on CAUSE, and what future criteria will be employed to trigger elevated scrutiny and demands for more information and documentation from some applicants. If we can be fairly precise, that should help us sort out the limited information available.
@dpenabill: Did you see the second line of my post?
[/QUOTE]Of-course the local office can ask for additional documents or FP "if necessary".[/QUOTE]
It explains all the problem: PPQ issued only by Sydney office "NORMALLY" at the same time of being IP while all other procedures are issued by the local office anytime between IN PROCESS and DECISION MADE. End of the story.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,438
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sorry man what does it mean RQ ? BBQ ?
Only a small percentage of applicants are required to submit additional information and documents to prove presence. The forms employed for this include:
CIT 0520 known as RQ lite
CIT 0171 formally titled "Residency Questionnaire"
and since May 2017 (possibly sooner) CIT 0205 PPQ -QAE

Applicants issued RQ lite or the full blown RQ tend to face delays in processing.

IRCC correspondence assures those selected for PPQ - QAE there should be minimal delays in their processing.



RQ is "Residency Questionnaire."

The form is CIT 0171. It is a comprehensive questionnaire aimed at verifying residency or presence. Various versions have been in use for a long time, but what they all have in common is that they require the applicant to provide detailed information more extensive than in the application itself and to submit documents supporting the applicant's information, such as documents showing occupancy interest in residential addresses for the time periods the applicant reports being in Canada, documents proving employment history, health care use records (just dates, but that is intrusive enough).

RQ is issued FOR CAUSE, but at times the criteria utilized has been very broad so that scores and scores of qualified applicants were issued RQ and suffered delays in processing. The "cause" or criteria have been variously referred to as risk indicators, reasons-to-question-presence/residency, and triage criteria. In 2012, for example, one of the criteria used was date Identification was issued, and if issued less than three months prior to the date the application was made, that automatically triggered RQ. Any period of self-employment or unemployment was, for a time, an automatic trigger for RQ. The precise criteria is confidential information; thus, while we know that the criteria has been amended/modified over the last several years, we do not know what precise criteria is employed these days.

Since 2012, screening based on the triage criteria or risk indicators has been done at multiple stages of the process. In 2012, in particular, OB - 407 implemented screening in CPC-Sydney for these factors resulting in the issuance of pre-test RQ. The File Requirements Checklist mandates repeating this screening at later stages as well, and thus apart from pre-test RQ, applicants could be issued RQ at the test/interview or following the test/interview. Prior to 2012, pre-test RQ was rare. Summer 2012 through 2013, most RQ appears to have been pre-test, issued by CPC-Sydney. In more recent years, the report of RQ has diminished greatly (there are some obvious reasons explaining this), and it has mostly been issued at or after the interview.

BBQ I do not know. Maybe the sauce I had on my chicken wings the other day.

PPQ - QAE stands for "Physical Presence Questionnaire - Quality Assurance Exercise."

This is a procedure which dates back to at least May 2017. The correspondence from IRCC states that the recipient was "randomly selected." Reports of this process were sporadic prior to the huge surge in applications made in October (probably 100,000 or more applications have been made just since October). In addition to the few reports from before October applicants, nearly two dozen or so forum participants have reported being issued the PPQ - QAE.

There is speculation that this PPQ - QAE replaces the RQ. So far as I can discern, despite definitive declarations otherwise, this is just that, mere SPECULATION. I address this more in the previous post above.

The PPQ - QAE is in many respects more oppressive than the full blown RQ. As I previously mentioned, for example, recipients must submit a Canadian citizen reference. Applicants are asked for exit/entry records from all countries in which they have resided. Applicants are required to give IRCC permission to obtain travel history records directly from the United States. All those reporting detail about this also report it includes a Finger Print request (which on its face contradicts the "randomly selected" statement in the cover correspondence, stating that the FPs are essential to verify identity where there is an indication that a criminal record may be involved -- noting though, this appears to be the standard FP request and not specifically for PPQ - QAE recipients). Recipients are asked to provide letters from landlords, and extensive documents related to employment.

Since there were only sporadic reports of this procedure prior to the huge surge in applications, and rampant impatience among forum participants aside, it is way, way too early to see how this will unfold beyond the sudden increase in number of applicants affected. There is a lot to learn. Definitive declarations about who will get this or when are simply NOT at all well-founded.
 

Quiches

Star Member
Nov 26, 2017
77
60
Yes, I had a good laugh! Very entertaining! You should be a script writer (maybe you already are).
On a final note, I thought you were gonna say that you'd do an interact transfer of $100 each to the first 3 or 4 persons who "like" your post.;)
Thanks for the laugh!
Hahaha, Thank you!!
Unfortunately, for the money, I am using it for my post-heart attack reconstruction surgery (just kidding ;))
 
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thebassi35

Hero Member
Oct 10, 2013
263
42
124
Surrey BC
Category........
Visa Office......
NEW DELHI
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
Received NDVO - 17/06/2016
File Transfer...
started processing 26/08/2016
Med's Done....
march 25th-2016
Interview........
DM on 07/02/2017
Passport Req..
PPR on feb 23-2017
Any Updates Surrey Applicants ?
 

kingtor

Full Member
Dec 13, 2017
33
15
Hi folks,
How come my online status did not change to decision made after my test and interview on feb 15 which went very smooth. Online status is in process still. I was asked FP before test which cic had already received. Can FP be reason for delay?
how did you verify that your fingerprints were received?
reason i ask is that i had my fingerprints done on feb 20 and as far as i know, they don’t update it on thier website that fingerprints have been received by them.
 
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marby22

Full Member
Sep 29, 2013
32
14
Just called CIC, the agent said that my application is 10 days past the date when I should have received my AOR. He put in a request for information to the nova scotia office and said they should get back to me soon. Fingers crossed! If anyone is still waiting, try giving them a call.
 

mqy

Member
Jan 18, 2018
15
3
how did you verify that your fingerprints were received?
reason i ask is that i had my fingerprints done on feb 20 and as far as i know, they don’t update it on thier website that fingerprints have been received by them.
I have the same issue, I did fingerprint before two months, and guess what, I called IRCC many times but they could not be able to confirm that they received my fingerprint from RCMP.
I am not sure what to do, should I contact with my PM?