The main purpose of Canadian citizenship is just to move to US?

[Officer Green]

Canada is a free country and obviously no one can ever stop its citizens, born or naturalized, from leaving the country. So it's not mobility rights that the opposition of "Canadian of Convenience" is trying to tackle. It seems lots of posters in this thread is missing this: they're trying to stop, or at least make it extremely difficult for potential Canadian of Convenience to get citizenship in the first place. This is why they increased the physical residence requirement in the previous citizenship bill, as well as the "intend to reside" clause.

The question is: who is Canadian of convenience?

If someone comes to Canada and gets a citizenship cannot find happiness and leaves should not be termed as a Canadian of Convenience. Someone comes to Canada with a dream; if he or she finds the dream cannot be achieved, let them decide what they think is good for them. Why someone would bother with their personal choice before and after! Shattered dreams and waste of talent cost more than so called benefit one gets. Don’t blame the ones who go through mental tortures, humiliation, and inferiority complex for not being able to do what they had planned before or were trained for. Even people are taking US citizenship and moving to Canada or elsewhere if they don’t find what they want there. I don’t hear anyone shouting on the other side.

One small example: I ordered an airport limousine few months before, the driver was a gentleman may be of between 55-60 years and happened to be a senior engineer of General Electric (GE) in Libya with work experience in Europe and the USA. He and his family is living here, contributing to the economy and also receiving the benefit what everyone is entitled to. My personal advice for him was to use his talent anywhere in the world he could, sometimes people can invent the things whole human kind can benefit. I don’t term him a Canadian of Convenience if he leaves Canada, because he is still willing to contribute in Canada in a level below than his qualification/experience and also for less money than he is entitled to.

In my opinion Canadian of Convenience is the one who misuses the system to come here (make fraud claims for immigration, enters with fake work permit or fake marriage or made up asylum cases) and once established, “contributes” to the economy by making money through unethical practices, criminal practices, exploiting legal systems and using loopholes in the systems even though still lives in Canada. They feel only the space inside their “four wall” the home and don’t think Canada as a home. They may portray themselves as true Canadians, but don’t respect the law and the country in reality. These are the dangerous problems for Canada in long run than a person who merely crosses the border for a better life.

But if we are talking about frauds, they should be punished during processing or any time in future.

 

[Officer Green]

This is what the US is doing to its citizens abroad, right? I'm not sure how it works, though. If an American lives and works in Canada, does s/he have to pay taxes to both US and Canada?

An adult American must file the tax wherever he is living in the world. Many, who did not know that before and did not file have been subjected to heavy fines and some people who had settled in Europe and Canada mentioned they prefer to give up their citizenship. But with the tax treaties (not every country has it), if you are living in Canada or many countries with higher taxes you hardly end up paying the US tax. However, if you are working in the middle east you will pay the federal taxes.

 

[sansnom]

This is what the US is doing to its citizens abroad, right? I'm not sure how it works, though. If an American lives and works in Canada, does s/he have to pay taxes to both US and Canada?

Yes, this is exactly what the US do for their citizens. It depends on whether the country of residence has a tax treaty with US.
If there is such, say Canada, tax paid in Canada is a tax credit in US. i.e. say C = tax in Canada, U = tax in US, one should pay C to Canada, (U-C) to USA if greater than zero.
If there isn't such treaty, one has to pay double tax to both country of residence and the US.

This is also similar to the taxes a TN holder pays in the US. One pays US taxes first, then pays the remainders to Canada.

 

[2_of_5]

This is what the US is doing to its citizens abroad, right? I'm not sure how it works, though. If an American lives and works in Canada, does s/he have to pay taxes to both US and Canada?

Yes, it is. And the US is the only country that practices citizenship-based taxation (except for little Eritrea, which was roundly condemned for the practice).

If Canada took that step, it would be a hugely-shameful and unjust step backward into American-style regard of citizens as property.

 

[ZingyDNA]

Yes, this is exactly what the US do for their citizens. It depends on whether the country of residence has a tax treaty with US.
If there is such, say Canada, tax paid in Canada is a tax credit in US. i.e. say C = tax in Canada, U = tax in US, one should pay C to Canada, (U-C) to USA if greater than zero.
If there isn't such treaty, one has to pay double tax to both country of residence and the US.

This is also similar to the taxes a TN holder pays in the US. One pays US taxes first, then pays the remainders to Canada.

Interesting. It would really suck for an American to live and work in a country with no tax treaty with the US! Even with a treaty, it's kind of a pain in the behind to have to file taxes for two countries.

 

[screech339]

Sure, Alberta has no 3-months waiting period - thanks for the valuable tip - so all the Canadian of convenience will flood Alberta with already limited resources and longer waiting time, just like the black Friday sale - and guess what? in the end only a lucky few get the door buster items, and most people end up dying for all the delay and wait, that's what happens to the 'free' system, nothing is really free in this world and you get what you pay for. Any 'Canadian of convenience' who fails to see that is dumb enough and deserve what's coming

If they are desperate enough to do it, they will. We have seen the desperation of some of the applicants submitting their applications in before 4/6 rule kicked in. One was even desperate to fly from Alberta to NS the day before deadline and submit same day delivery citizenship application. If there is a will, there is a way. If there are some people willing to spend thousands of dollars on a flight to submit their application, there are going to be some desperate to come back to Canada to access medical care. While medical care in Canada is not "free", it is free for anyone (including those living in Canada) who haven't paid into the system.

 

[itsmyid]

If they are desperate enough to do it, they will. We have seen the desperation of some of the applicants submitting their applications in before 4/6 rule kicked in. One was even desperate to fly from Alberta to NS the day before deadline and submit same day delivery citizenship application. If there is a will, there is a way. If there are some people willing to spend thousands of dollars on a flight to submit their application, there are going to be some desperate to come back to Canada to access medical care. While medical care in Canada is not "free", it is free for anyone (including those living in Canada) who haven't paid into the system.

yeah, I am sure that will be the vast majority of people, probably millions of them, and will have huge impact on everybody's life - that's why you are so concerned, good for you!

 

[sansnom]

Interesting. It would really suck for an American to live and work in a country with no tax treaty with the US! Even with a treaty, it's kind of a pain in the behind to have to file taxes for two countries.

Yea... every year many people give up US citizenship because of taxation. It is a shameful and harsh but effective way to reduce "American of Convenience".

 

[aaamr]

This is what the US is doing to its citizens abroad, right? I'm not sure how it works, though. If an American lives and works in Canada, does s/he have to pay taxes to both US and Canada?

I am an American citizen and Canadian PR. I file taxes in the US every year, but am credited for all taxes paid in Canada, so I rarely have to pay any US taxes. Not all countries have this kind of reciprocal tax agreement though. Details are here:

https://www.fin.gc.ca/treaties-conventions/USA_-eng.asp

-A.

 

[screech339]

yeah, I am sure that will be the vast majority of people, probably millions of them, and will have huge impact on everybody's life - that's why you are so concerned, good for you!

I guess you never really know how expensive cancer treatment, for example, can be since you will never see the medical bill. While the number of cases are low, the cost of such treatment is still high enough to make an impact on overall cost. If medical cost in US can cost someone's mortgage, I can only imagine that it can have an overall impact on medical cost in Canada.

You talk about how Canada need immigrants to support the social net in Canada. What's the point of bringing over immigrants if they are only staying long enough to obtain citizenship and leave. Their action won't help Canada in the first place.

 

[hfinkel]

I guess you never really know how expensive cancer treatment, for example, can be since you will never see the medical bill. While the number of cases are low, the cost of such treatment is still high enough to make an impact on overall cost. If medical cost in US can cost someone's mortgage, I can only imagine that it can have an overall impact on medical cost in Canada.

You talk about how Canada need immigrants to support the social net in Canada. What's the point of bringing over immigrants if they are only staying long enough to obtain citizenship and leave. Their action won't help Canada in the first place.

If I add the US federal+state income tax rate to the annual cost of healthcare there and compare it to the income tax rate in the Canada+Canadian healthcare here, the final bill is much lower in Canada.

 

[ZingyDNA]

I guess you never really know how expensive cancer treatment, for example, can be since you will never see the medical bill. While the number of cases are low, the cost of such treatment is still high enough to make an impact on overall cost. If medical cost in US can cost someone's mortgage, I can only imagine that it can have an overall impact on medical cost in Canada.

You talk about how Canada need immigrants to support the social net in Canada. What's the point of bringing over immigrants if they are only staying long enough to obtain citizenship and leave. Their action won't help Canada in the first place.

Well, if you could have some statistics, like 2345 immigrants were granted citizenship in the year 19XX, and left the country in the year 19YY. Now 1234 of them have come back for medical treatment/social assistance, costing 3456789 dollars in total. That would really help your case. Otherwise, anyone can pull numbers out of their behind, like I just did, to prove anything...

 

[Seym]

I guess you never really know how expensive cancer treatment, for example, can be since you will never see the medical bill. While the number of cases are low, the cost of such treatment is still high enough to make an impact on overall cost. If medical cost in US can cost someone's mortgage, I can only imagine that it can have an overall impact on medical cost in Canada.

You talk about how Canada need immigrants to support the social net in Canada. What's the point of bringing over immigrants if they are only staying long enough to obtain citizenship and leave. Their action won't help Canada in the first place.

Well, someone who goes back to his/her home country 4 years after coming to Canada will have canadian children that may return back to Canada at 18, study here and then support that social net...

 

[itsmyid]

I guess you never really know how expensive cancer treatment, for example, can be since you will never see the medical bill. While the number of cases are low, the cost of such treatment is still high enough to make an impact on overall cost. If medical cost in US can cost someone's mortgage, I can only imagine that it can have an overall impact on medical cost in Canada.

You talk about how Canada need immigrants to support the social net in Canada. What's the point of bringing over immigrants if they are only staying long enough to obtain citizenship and leave. Their action won't help Canada in the first place.

You are right I don’t have the first hand experience about how much the bills for cancer treatment is like, and I have not encountered anyone coming back to Canada just for the “free” healthcare - what I do know is a number of friends and coworkers who had to go back to their countries of origin to get treatment for various illnesses, some of which were cancers that were not diagnosed in Canada due to doctors not doing enough/necessary tests, some were health issues that took too long to get an appointment with specialists and got so much worse they just couldn’t wait any longer - I guess you can call them “Canadian of inconvenience “

So, to those potential Canadians of convenience who want to come back for cancer treatment, good luck ! LOL

 

[canvis2006]

I guess you never really know how expensive cancer treatment, for example, can be since you will never see the medical bill. While the number of cases are low, the cost of such treatment is still high enough to make an impact on overall cost. If medical cost in US can cost someone's mortgage, I can only imagine that it can have an overall impact on medical cost in Canada.

You talk about how Canada need immigrants to support the social net in Canada. What's the point of bringing over immigrants if they are only staying long enough to obtain citizenship and leave. Their action won't help Canada in the first place.

It's not going from your pocket, so chill and try to enjoy your life.
People have mobility rights, what's your problem with them. As long as the govt of Canada allows it, who are you to judge others.
People move internationally all the time, who cares.
You talk as if you're the one paying everyone's medical costs. No you don't. Live and let live