Parents Sponsorship - Stop Immigration Lottery

[nayr69sg]

Many of the high net worth immigrants have no problem accessing all the benefits but also use accountants and their home countries to pay as little taxes, etc as possible. Highly doubt anyone is going to turn down free health care or other benefits and offer to pay for the cost themselves.

I am not referring to the universal health care program. I am referring to the supplementary programs each province has to help its poor population.

They are there. You do have to qualify for it showing your NOAs, where you live, they visit your home and interview you before you get access to the programs.

These programs are not accessible to anyone unless they are poor and prove it.

The next time you visit your family doctor, ask him/her what do they do if their patients are so poor that they cannot afford to buy medicines or pay for injection medication etc. Do they say sorry too bad you just suffer?

 

[Rob_TO]

As I said, the PGP is not based on cost. It is a humanitarian program to reunite families. Cost is a secondary consideration.

What do you think the excessive demand test is?? That's right, it's to reject or refuse someone based on the cost to Canada.

Healthcare is not the only cost (as you listed several others), but realistically it's the only one that matters. All the others you listed are a drop in the bucket and insignificant when it comes to the pure healthcare costs (funded 100% by taxpayers) that elderly parents will use.

Items like supplemental costs to healthcare, parents buying a home, buying personal products and paying HST, etc etc does not come close to affecting all Canadian tax payers vs the raw healthcare costs and wait times they will add to.

And since income of the sponsor or parents is completely irrelevant to basic healthcare costs and wait times, any income of the sponsor over and above LICO, or how wealthy parents are, is irrelevant and should not be used for giving priority.

 

[canuck78]

You are correct. Many things are not covered. And if you can pay for it, they let you pay for it.

What I am saying though is say you were extremely poor and could not afford to pay for the Botox or the Triamcinolone for your neck injections, would the system say too bad you go suffer in pain?

No. There are programs (at least in Alberta I am not sure about Ontario) where the really poor can get help. Eg through Alberta Works to help offset the cost of treatment.

Canada is not a cruel country. But if someone can pay for the treatment they let them pay for it.

Why certain things are covered and others are not (officially) I am not a health administrator. They certainly do cover the big items. But some things aren't. For Botox I suspect given the history of the drug in use for aesthetic reasons they have put it on the "not covered" list for obvious reasons. But Botox does have its medical uses in chronic pain, and involuntary spasms.

There are some programs that are geared to income but there are so many things that are not covered. We have a system where acute care or inpatient care is mostly covered but the rest is hit or miss. Botox is actually proven therapy for muscle spasms but it is only covered for the limited conditions the company applied for approval under Canadian drug approval process that is why it wasn't covered. If everything was funded if you had financial need why would there be so many go fund me/other fundraisers. You are lucky because you clearly have had not to deal with the system.

 

[canuck78]

I am not referring to the universal health care program. I am referring to the supplementary programs each province has to help its poor population.

They are there. You do have to qualify for it showing your NOAs, where you live, they visit your home and interview you before you get access to the programs.

These programs are not accessible to anyone unless they are poor and prove it.

The next time you visit your family doctor, ask him/her what do they do if their patients are so poor that they cannot afford to buy medicines or pay for injection medication etc. Do they say sorry too bad you just suffer?

Yes. Many treatments are not accessible. People don't get hospital beds at home, have broken wheelchairs or fall because they can't afford a walker.

 

[nayr69sg]

What do you think the excessive demand test is?? That's right, it's to reject or refuse someone based on the cost to Canada.

Healthcare is not the only cost (as you listed several others), but realistically it's the only one that matters. All the others you listed are a drop in the bucket and insignificant when it comes to the pure healthcare costs (funded 100% by taxpayers) that elderly parents will use.

Items like supplemental costs to healthcare, parents buying a home, buying personal products and paying HST, etc etc does not come close to affecting all Canadian tax payers vs the raw healthcare costs and wait times they will add to.

Parents buying a home and personal products to me is considered a boon to the economy (if they truly use foreign acquired funds to pay for it in Canada). This is why some countries use immigration as a way to boost the economy. However in the PGP group there is the consideration that they will require healthcare in a short space of time.

And since income of the sponsor or parents is completely irrelevant to basic healthcare costs and wait times, any income of the sponsor over and above LICO, or how wealthy parents are, is irrelevant and should not be used for giving priority.

As I have mentioned that is not true. The socioeconomic status of the parents is a direct indication of how much healthcare they will consume. The poorer you are the more healthcare you will need. So the poorer they are the more money we spend on them and the more they add to wait times.

I suspect that many of the poor parents will have medical problems to begin with. I have seen them. They come with poorly controlled diabetes, hypertension, previous coronary artery disease, strokes etc.

I do not agree with giving priority to parents who are rich. That clearly violates the principle of equality.

I however wish to highlight that the healthcare spent on poor parents coming to Canada will be higher than richer parents.

 

[canuck78]

I am not referring to the universal health care program. I am referring to the supplementary programs each province has to help its poor population.

They are there. You do have to qualify for it showing your NOAs, where you live, they visit your home and interview you before you get access to the programs.

These programs are not accessible to anyone unless they are poor and prove it.

The next time you visit your family doctor, ask him/her what do they do if their patients are so poor that they cannot afford to buy medicines or pay for injection medication etc. Do they say sorry too bad you just suffer?

If you a have a seriously ill family member at home you probably qualify for less then a day of nursing care a week. The majority is left up to the family.

 

[nayr69sg]

There are some programs that are geared to income but there are so many things that are not covered. We have a system where acute care or inpatient care is mostly covered but the rest is hit or miss. Botox is actually proven therapy for muscle spasms but it is only covered for the limited conditions the company applied for approval under Canadian drug approval process that is why it wasn't covered. If everything was funded if you had financial need why would there be so many go fund me/other fundraisers. You are lucky because you clearly have had not to deal with the system.

Some of the fund me/fundraisers are for patients who want to seek treatment that is not available in Canada. That's a different ball game altogether.

The fact is there are supplementary programs that help needy patients. They are already stretched at the moment. Adding more poor people to the country is only going to add to that stress for the programs.

Of course eventually someone has to draw a line and say sorry we just cannot fund that.

 

[pie_vancouver]

I thought LICO wasn't something you can increase or decrease?

If it is cost then why wouldn't you want to get parents who have money?

Are you serious? Google LICO and who determines/study LICO.

 

[canuck78]

Parents buying a home and personal products to me is considered a boon to the economy (if they truly use foreign acquired funds to pay for it in Canada). This is why some countries use immigration as a way to boost the economy. However in the PGP group there is the consideration that they will require healthcare in a short space of time.



As I have mentioned that is not true. The socioeconomic status of the parents is a direct indication of how much healthcare they will consume. The poorer you are the more healthcare you will need. So the poorer they are the more money we spend on them and the more they add to wait times.

I suspect that many of the poor parents will have medical problems to begin with. I have seen them. They come with poorly controlled diabetes, hypertension, previous coronary artery disease, strokes etc.

I do not agree with giving priority to parents who are rich. That clearly violates the principle of equality.

I however wish to highlight that the healthcare spent on poor parents coming to Canada will be higher than richer parents.

Actually wealthy population often have more health problems. Have you seen the obesity rate in wealthier countries? Rich people don't get cancer?

 

[nayr69sg]

Yes. Many treatments are not accessible. People don't get hospital beds at home, have broken wheelchairs or fall because they can't afford a walker.

Yes. Many of these are not covered. But there are ways around it too. Donations from other patients who have since passed on etc.

Of course if you were the family donating it, you would want to make sure it goes only to the ones who truly need it and cannot afford it.

We try our best to help.

 

[nayr69sg]

If you a have a seriously ill family member at home you probably qualify for less then a day of nursing care a week. The majority is left up to the family.

Yes. And that amount of nursing care which the family can afford also impacts on repeat visits to the ED.

So if the family cannot afford the needed extra care they will go to the ED. That increases healthcare costs and wait times.

 

[canuck78]

Yes. Many of these are not covered. But there are ways around it too. Donations from other patients who have since passed on etc.

Of course if you were the family donating it, you would want to make sure it goes only to the ones who truly need it and cannot afford it.

We try our best to help.

You basically just proved my point that things aren't covered. You have to get lucky that someone will give you their old stuff that will meet your measurements and specifications.

 

[Rob_TO]

Parents buying a home and personal products to me is considered a boon to the economy (if they truly use foreign acquired funds to pay for it in Canada). This is why some countries use immigration as a way to boost the economy. However in the PGP group there is the consideration that they will require healthcare in a short space of time.

Many feel the exact opposite, that foreigners buying homes is hurting the economy by making it harder for Canadians to buy homes

Also there is no guarantee any parent will buy a home, or how much they will contribute to Canada's economy, no matter how much money they have in their home country.

As I have mentioned that is not true. The socioeconomic status of the parents is a direct indication of how much healthcare they will consume. The poorer you are the more healthcare you will need. So the poorer they are the more money we spend on them and the more they add to wait times.

I suspect that many of the poor parents will have medical problems to begin with. I have seen them. They come with poorly controlled diabetes, hypertension, previous coronary artery disease, strokes etc.

You are just guessing on everything here. Try putting a dollar value or some real numbers on healthcare costs in Canada vs wealth to see what an actual cost impact is. and then you can use it as an argument. Especially since all parents will already have gone through an excessive demand test which will weed out those with serious health issues.

 

[canuck78]

Yes. And that amount of nursing care which the family can afford also impacts on repeat visits to the ED.

So if the family cannot afford the needed extra care they will go to the ED. That increases healthcare costs and wait times.

Not true at all. Actually many of the family without resources do more of the care and barely ask for help. Many of the wealthier patients are much more entitled and place a bigger burden on the system. Has nothing to do with ED admissions. You clearly haven't worked in the health sector as well.

 

[JulianaAndrew]

Many feel the exact opposite, that foreigners buying homes is hurting the economy by making it harder for Canadians to buy homes

Take Vancouver for example, the housing is a nightmare there. Recently they brought up laws to reduce the impact of foreigners (mostly Asian) buying homes to just rent them. But there are no real significant changes in the short term. It will keep being a nightmare.