Parents Sponsorship - Stop Immigration Lottery

[4parents]

Hi all,

We've created a website to bring together as many people as we can, to sign a petition to end the lottery for parents sponsorship. Every immigrant should be concerned with this law, because most of us want to reunite with parents at some point in our lives, and nobody deserves to be separated.

The website: stop-immigration-lottery (dot) ca

This forum thread will be the official discussion room for the website.

 

[zardoz]

Hi all,

We've created a website to bring together as many people as we can, to sign a petition to end the lottery for parents sponsorship. Every immigrant should be concerned with this law, because most of us want to reunite with parents at some point in our lives, and nobody deserves to be separated.

The website: stop-immigration-lottery (dot) ca

This forum thread will be the official discussion room for the website.

The web site has a number of factual errors.

Example.

Prior to the reform all applications were accepted as soon as people desired to apply. The wait time reflected the time from the moment you submitted the application to receiving a final response, and was about 7 years.

All applications were not accepted. Only the lucky few who, with geographic or financial advantage, were able to get to the head of the limited number of accepted applicants.

 

[scylla]

It's not entirely clear to me what the petition is asking. It sounds like you're just asking for the lottery to stop. Is that right? If the lottery is removed, the process would revert back to the FIFO system which still had a 10K application cap. Under this prior arrangement, CIC still only accepted 10K applications per year - however selection was based on which applications arrived first to their offices via courier after the first business day of January (rather than a random lottery). Many felt this system was also extremely unfair and ironically people here petitioned to change the system to a lottery.

The Liberals introduced the lottery approach. However it was the Conservatives who introduced the 10K cap before them. The Conservatives were the ones who also promised reduced processing times and froze application processing. The reduced processing time promise has certainly become reality for those accepted under the cap. We've seen many/most on this forum processed in 1-2 years (some in less than a year). Of course it's a different situation for those who haven't managed to make the cap (either under the FIFO Conservative system or lottery Liberal system).

Anyway - guess I'm not clear if the petition is asking for the removal of the lottery AND the 10K cap - or just the lottery approach. It sounds like it's just the lottery since that's what specifically mentioned again and again - and it refers to the changes the Liberals introduced (which was just the lottery approach - not the 10K cap).

 

[scylla]

All applications were not accepted. Only the lucky few who, with geographic or financial advantage, were able to get to the head of the limited number of accepted applicants.

This is actually a reference to the 2011 reforms introduced by the Conservatives (not the lottery changes introduced by the Liberals). Prior to the reforms, there were no application caps and anyone could apply at any time provided they met the income requirements.

The petition is confusing in that regard since it fails to mention the FIFO approach + 10K cap that was first introduced by the Conservatives - which was then later modified to a lottery approach by the Liberals.

EDIT:

Petition makes it sound like:

Liberals introduced reform which was 10K cap + lottery

Reality:

Conservatives introduced reform + 10K cap with FIFO application submission process
Liberals changed application submission process from FIFO to lottery

 

[OP_POP]

Hi all,

We've created a website to bring together as many people as we can, to sign a petition to end the lottery for parents sponsorship. Every immigrant should be concerned with this law, because most of us want to reunite with parents at some point in our lives, and nobody deserves to be separated.

The website: stop-immigration-lottery (dot) ca

This forum thread will be the official discussion room for the website.

You should consider that Canada accepted YOU as immigrant and never promised you can bring the rest of your family. If you are not happy with it, no one forced you to stay. This is just to answer you blaming Canada.

As for the lottery system, they came up with it because people felt that lining up couriers from applicants at 6 am to make the 10K cut was unfair for people sending their apps from places further away. The truth is that no system is going to make everyone happy. I feel 10K applicants per year is fair, it is not right to push Canadians to pay for medicals / expenses from immigrant parents more than this.

 

[4parents]

The web site has a number of factual errors.

Example.

All applications were not accepted. Only the lucky few who, with geographic or financial advantage, were able to get to the head of the limited number of accepted applicants.

As @scylla mentioned, this refers to the pre-2011 system.
That said, I will be happy to have others input so we can create a clear and concise copy.

 

[4parents]

It's not entirely clear to me what the petition is asking.

Petition text is still something to work on. For now the main issue is just to get the affected people to the same level of understanding - that there is an existing problem and it needs some action.

In my view the entire parents sponsorship process needs to be restructured. I spoke with multiple MPs in the last few months, and basically everyone acknowledged that right now there is no relationship considered when immigration levels are established for different categories. E.g. that X skilled workers bring Y number of parents/spouses/children, etc. I disagree with both 10k limit, and with the lottery. And so far the trend of changes not in people's favour

 

[4parents]

You should consider that Canada accepted YOU as immigrant and never promised you can bring the rest of your family. If you are not happy with it, no one forced you to stay. This is just to answer you blaming Canada.

You are confusing "Canada" with "elected government" and with "specific laws"

 

[OP_POP]

You are confusing "Canada" with "elected government" and with "specific laws"

No i am not. If you get accepted to immigrate to Canada, no where says you can bring your family as well. You are confused about the rules.

We are all immigrants here, but why a Canadian who was born here has to pay more than this with his tax money to bring more parents / grand parents here? That’s why i feel 10K cap is fair. You should consider both sides of the arguments.

 

[canuck78]

You should be hoping that the 10k doesn't decrease as the baby boomers age and the longterm care and hospital system are often close to 100% capacity.

 

[scylla]

Petition text is still something to work on. For now the main issue is just to get the affected people to the same level of understanding - that there is an existing problem and it needs some action.

In my view the entire parents sponsorship process needs to be restructured. I spoke with multiple MPs in the last few months, and basically everyone acknowledged that right now there is no relationship considered when immigration levels are established for different categories. E.g. that X skilled workers bring Y number of parents/spouses/children, etc. I disagree with both 10k limit, and with the lottery. And so far the trend of changes not in people's favour

If you disagree with both the 10K cap and the lottery then I would recommend the petition be re-worded. Right now it sounds like it's all about eliminating the lottery and the 10K cap is fine.

If you plan to edit the lottery wording, then you should be removing people's ability to sign the lottery. Signatures should only be possible once the wording is finalized. Otherwise you'll invalidate the signatures you receive through modifying the wording.

 

[mikeymyke]

The lottery concept itself is completely fine. Giving all people an equal chance to sponsor their parents rather than giving an edge to those in Ontario or people with deep pockets paying couriers to get ahead. And limiting the number allowed to reduce the burden on social services as well as the backlog , the lottery system is a great idea. But for me, the biggest issue with it is that currently there are too many ineligible sponsors taking up lottery spots away from eligibile ones.

 

[4parents]

You should consider both sides of the arguments.

Why does a child-free family pays for schools?
Why does a person with no car pays for public highways?
Why does a person who doesn't like nature pays towards maintaining parks?

That’s why i feel 10K cap is fair.

What is this feeling based on? Is it valid for 10k skilled immigrants a year, or 100k skilled immigrants a year, or 500k skilled immigrants a year?
Have you taken into account pretty strict financial requirements for the sponsor, and that the sponsor accepts financial responsibility for 20 years? Will your feeling change if these requirements were changed in either direction?

 

[4parents]

The lottery concept itself is completely fine. Giving all people an equal chance to sponsor their parents rather than giving an edge to those in Ontario or people with deep pockets paying couriers to get ahead. And limiting the number allowed to reduce the burden on social services as well as the backlog , the lottery system is a great idea. But for me, the biggest issue with it is that currently there are too many ineligible sponsors taking up lottery spots away from eligibile ones.

How can you be fine if now you may never be able to sponsor your parents?
Because it's a chance now, you may be eligible today, and apply for 10 years, and still not be selected. Then 11 years later somebody becomes just eligible and applies in the same pool as you, and because of sheer luck gets accepted, and you are still not.

For example, in US parents sponsorship takes less than a year for everyone eligible.

 

[OP_POP]

Why does a child-free family pays for schools?
Why does a person with no car pays for public highways?
Why does a person who doesn't like nature pays towards maintaining parks?


What is this feeling based on? Is it valid for 10k skilled immigrants a year, or 100k skilled immigrants a year, or 500k skilled immigrants a year?
Have you taken into account pretty strict financial requirements for the sponsor, and that the sponsor accepts financial responsibility for 20 years? Will your feeling change if these requirements were changed in either direction?

-Are you really comparing building highways and schools to bringing older people to Canada that mostly can’t contribute to economy? Wow.

-The 20 year commitment has nothing to do with the medical / other financial requirements that these older people require from Canada. Since these people did not contribute to paying tax while working (only their kids did), it is not fair to ask for more from Canadian tax payers. That’s why I am okay with the 10K limit.