Do I still need to fill residence outside of Canada form CIT 0 177.
So eligible period from 04/December/2012 to 04/December/2017.
Or the date I got my Permanent Residence.
I got my PR on 27/January/2014. I spend total 1330 day in Canada only three short trip total duration 77 days . Do I need to fill CIT0177 form kindly let me know as soon as possible thank you so much.
I am NO expert. I am not qualified to give personal advice.
I am qualified to warn against considering any posting here as expert advice, and to be particularly cautious if not skeptical of anyone who is offering personal advice.
SHORT and PROBABLE ANSWER for 9.c:
It appears you should check "yes" in response to item 9.c. This is because (it appears) you were living outside Canada in 2013 and that is during your eligibility period (Dec 2012 to Dec 2017). So "yes" is the truthful answer.
Those who check "yes" are instructed to submit the Crown Servant form, that is CIT 0177.
It appears that CIT 0177 does NOT apply to you. But the instructions are to submit it. So you can enter your name in the top of the form and enter "NA" in the rest of the form (probably OK to leave parts of it blank or hand write a big "NA" across it). Be sure to check off, in the checklist, that the form is included.
9.C EXPLANATION:
Item 9.c is a glitch in the application form which IRCC has yet to fix. No need to get thrown off by it.
As noted, applicants can check "yes" if that is the truthful answer to the 9.c question.
They then submit a CIT 0177 form, as instructed, with most of the CIT 0177 form marked as "NA."
No need to get complicated.
The Other Approach:
There are many others in this forum who suggest checking "no" in response to item 9.c and they may indeed be correct that this will be OK with IRCC, even though the applicant lived outside Canada during his or her eligibility period.
This approach is based on
second-guessing what IRCC really wants or rewriting the question based on an interpretation of what IRCC really intended to ask. And, as noted, IRCC might indeed be OK with this.
The actual question in item 9.c :
During your eligibility period did you live outside Canada: [no] [yes]
Intended question; it is indeed likely that the question IRCC intends to ask (roughly paraphrased, as best we can second-guess or rewrite the question):
During your eligibility period did you live outside Canada while a Crown Servant or with a Crown Servant family member: [no] [yes]
In practical terms, many in the forum tend to rephrase it more casually or pragmatically:
Should you file CIT 0177 to obtain credit for time you were living outside Canada during your eligibility period: [no] [yes]
The other approach is to check "no" as if the question is one of these latter two.
Some even claim that IRCC help centre agents have stated this is the way to respond to this item.
In general, however, it is NOT a good idea to second-guess let alone rephrase the question.
As a general rule, it is a bad idea to second-guess questions or instructions. In particular I think it is a very bad idea to rewrite the question to say something other than what it says, and especially so if the literal meaning of the question is clear.
But that is what many are suggesting here. Regarding that, make no mistake, the fact that the application passes a completeness check and AOR is issued
does NOT say anything at all about how the applicant should respond to an item like 9.c.
The completeness check is NOT an ACCURACY check. That comes later.
If in doubt, follow the instructions; otherwise, yep, follow the instructions.
Scores and scores of applicants have run into unnecessary difficulties when they answered the way they thought was OK rather than directly responding to the questions as asked.
Longer and more in-depth observations about the checking "no" option:
As noted, some even claim that IRCC help centre agents have stated that the way to respond to this item is to in effect first determine if CIT 0177 is applicable and if not, check "no" in response to item 9.c.
There are multiple reasons for being skeptical about this. The most obvious reason is that this means giving an answer to the question as asked which is contrary to fact, that is, NOT true.
But there is an underlying reason: there appears to be some confusion within IRCC about how to apply the paradigm shift regarding the
eligibility period. The eligibility period is now the full five years prior to applying regardless of personal immigration history. Thus, for many citizenship applicants (probably the majority) the eligibility period now includes time BEFORE ever coming to Canada and time BEFORE becoming a Canadian PR. This a big, paradigm shift. It is counter-intuitive in many ways since for many if not most applicants their
eligibility period includes periods of time in which there is no possible eligibility credit. But more than that, it has the result of requiring applicants to provide details (address history, work history, travel to other countries) for periods of time prior to when they could possibly have any credit toward eligibility.
It is readily apparent that personnel within IRCC have not fully unraveled the implications and consequences of this paradigm shift. Thus, in addition to the fact that call centre agents have never been all that reliable for any questions more complicated than standard FAQs, generally limited to giving little if any more than what can be found in the instruction guide, a large dose of skepticism should be taken with any call centre agent's response to complicated questions and especially those which might be tangled in eligibility period complications.
OTHER OPTIONS; check "no" and explain:
Applicants can check "no" and add a supplemental page with an explanation that "no" was answered in response to item 9.c because they have no reason to submit CIT 0177, that they were not Crown Servants or living with a Crown Servant when they were living abroad. Probability of this working should be very high. It still involves giving a response contrary to the facts, but the reason why is clear and the rest of the application information should amply illustrate the applicant is not trying to hide any time spent living abroad.
OTHER OPTIONS; check "yes" and explain without including CIT 0177:
Some applicants have checked "yes" and explained that CIT 0177 is not applicable to them, so the form is not submitted. My initial impression was this should work but there has been at least one very credible report that this did NOT work, even though the applicant submitted a very clear explanation as to why no CIT 0177 form was included with the application.
However, others have reported taking this approach and that they have received AOR, suggesting it sometimes works.
For what should be obvious reasons, I wince when the suggestion is to do something which sometimes works, or even to do something which often works. First choice is to figure out and do what is almost sure to work.
Thus, while I expected IRCC to be fairly flexible with items like this, and especially this item 9.c since it really is their screw up, checking "yes" and explaining why no form is submitted does NOT seem like a prudent approach. And, actually, all it takes is a little reflection about how bureaucracies work to recognize the risks: if 9.c is answered "yes," then a mechanical completeness check will look to be sure the respective item in the checklist is also checked, that the checklist confirms CIT 0177 is enclosed. If that is not checked as included, or if it is indeed not included, the application will NOT pass a mechanical completeness check.
Some overall observations:
It is disappointing that IRCC has, at least on some occasion, not been flexible in how it approaches responses to item 9.c
This really is IRCC's screw up. It is obvious that the intended question, for 9.c, is:
During your eligibility period did you live outside Canada while a Crown Servant or with a Crown Servant family member: [no] [yes]
BUT that is NOT the question that 9.c asks. And no matter how many ways one reads the "help" information, or the guide instructions, they in no way suggest let alone instruct the applicant to check "no" to the question as asked, which again simply asks if the applicant lived outside Canada during the eligibility period.
