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730 DAYS RULE NOT MET ?!?!

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
How to do you define "Cutting-it Close" ?

In my case, I got PR in 2015.


2015 --> made first entry on 15- Sep- 2015 & was in Canada for 2 weeks
2016 --> Was in Canada for 6 weeks
2017 --> was in Canada for 4 weeks

Thus, total 12 weeks in first 3 years

Plan to settle and enter in Canada for good in fourth year on 14 Nov 2018 ... So means I have 4 weeks extra.

Do you call it "Cutting-it Close" ?
Cutting-it-close is a technical and very precise parameter, 23 days and 14 hours to be exact, give or take a few minutes.

JUST KIDDING!

I am just kidding to emphasize that observations about cutting-it-close are advisory: it is a descriptive caution, not at all definitive.

Aside from that, obviously, of course, your plan is indeed cutting-it-close, by about a hundred days or more.

That noted, there is nothing inherently wrong with cutting-it-close.

As of the day you arrive to stay and live in Canada you count the number of days left before the fifth year anniversary since the day you landed, and add the days you have been present in Canada since the day you landed, and if that total number is 730 days or more, you will be in compliance with the PR RO as of the day you arrive to live in Canada. That's the rule. That is the technical and precise parameter. The minimum. That meets the PR Residency Obligation.

Recognizing the implications of cutting-it-close is about avoiding, or at least managing risks --
-- risk a CBSA or IRCC officer will doubt or challenge your claims about days spent in Canada
-- risk stuff happens and your planned date of arrival in Canada gets postponed
-- risk stuff happens and there are circumstances which compel you to go abroad for a period of time after you have come to settle in Canada
-- risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes) will be referred to Secondary and during the delay in getting a new PR card you will not be able to travel abroad without the inconvenience and risks involved in applying for a PR Travel Document (remember, a PR abroad without a valid status document is presumed to NOT have valid PR status)

What constitutes cutting-it-close is variable and the nature of the risks involved are variable, each depending on many factors specific to the individual. Overall, as I previously (and rather often in fact) observed, a PR tends to be on the cutting-it-close side of the PR RO if the PR is spending less than half the time in Canada or otherwise appears to not have, as yet, settled in Canada permanently. Again, there is nothing definitive or precise about this. It is a broad generalization. In discussing this I often round it down to 900 days, suggesting that less than 900 days is cutting-it-close. But again, this is RELATIVE. Depending on circumstances and personal history, a PR who has been in Canada less than 800 days (within the applicable five years) may have a minimal risk of problems, whereas some PRs who have been in Canada well over 900 days (within the applicable five years) have run into difficulties when applying for a new PR card.

It depends.


Which leads to your circumstances and query:

If you have not been living in Canada, and you arrive at the PoE with 670 days left until the fifth anniversary of the day you landed, and the PoE officer has questions about whether you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, what do you think? Really.

Here's what I think: odds are good the officer will NOT ask many, if any questions about compliance with the PR RO, particularly if you have been in Canada within the preceding year or so. Odds are good you will be waived through without any Secondary referral, except perhaps for Customs (depending on what you are bringing to Canada).

BUT there is a risk the border officer will have questions, and if there are questions, how it goes could depend on whether the officer believes your accounting of days already spent in Canada.

If you arrive as planned, even if there are questions about PR RO compliance, odds are good your accounting of days in Canada will suffice, no problem (particularly if you can specifically state the dates and even more so if your passport stamps support that accounting of dates). Good odds are NO guarantee, and actually far from it. There are risks this could go the other way. How it goes can depend, some, on your general demeanor and the officer's impression of your credibility, recognizing that the officer's attitude, even mood on that particular day, can of course affect what impression the officer has of your credibility.

But what happens if stuff happens and your return to Canada is delayed? The longer the delay, the greater the risks, and if the delay is longer than 24 days (which by the way is less than four weeks), the risks go up considerably because then you will actually be in breach of the PR RO.

Even if you arrive in Canada with 24 days over the minimum, that will mean you will be at risk again any time you travel abroad, even briefly. And if stuff happens requiring you to go abroad for longer, to resolve some unfinished business or attend to an ill parent or such, any time within the next two years plus two weeks (as of the fifth year anniversary of your landing, days during those first two weeks begin to fall outside the relevant five year time period and will no longer count), if you are abroad for more than 24 days you will be in breach of the PR RO, and anyone in breach of the PR RO has a substantial risk of being reported and losing PR status.

Moreover, this scenario will significantly increase the risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes to do that) will be referred to Secondary, and it could take a year or so before you are delivered a new PR card. So, for two years after you arrive in Canada to live in Canada, you will be more or less effectively unable to travel abroad (without risk), and it is quite likely there will continue to be substantial risks involved in traveling abroad for six months to a year beyond that.

Again, the actual risks involved VARY widely and thus each individual needs to exercise his or her own best judgment, both as to assessing the risks, and in terms of what risks the individual is willing to undertake. Some individuals (like me) tend to be risk-adverse and will pursue a course of action which minimizes risks and which avoids risks as much as possible. Many others will be less risk-adverse, willing to take more risks.

Caveat for those who tend to take more risks: some also tend to underestimate not just the risks themselves, but the factors which are relevant to assessing risks. Note, for example, the scenario posed here: landing Sept 15, 2014, 12 weeks in Canada prior to a planned arrival to live in Canada Nov. 14, 2018. The margin is NOT 4 weeks. It is more like 24 days. Anyone cutting it this close should pay attention to a difference like that. If something delays the date of actually coming to Canada by four weeks, that will NOT be cutting-it-close but will a BREACH of the PR RO, and arriving in Canada hoping the border officers do not question compliance with the PR RO (probably still a good chance, so long as it is not a lot later than that, but the risk scales tip dramatically once the PR is actually in breach of the PR RO).

Nonetheless, still, yes, 731 days within the relevant five years meets the PR RO. That's the requirement. As long as CBSA or IRCC does not disagree with the calculation, the PR is in compliance.
 
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goldmary

Full Member
Nov 1, 2013
29
0
Cutting-it-close is a technical and very precise parameter, 23 days and 14 hours to be exact, give or take a few minutes.

JUST KIDDING!

I am just kidding to emphasize that observations about cutting-it-close are advisory: it is a descriptive caution, not at all definitive.

Aside from that, obviously, of course, your plan is indeed cutting-it-close, by about a hundred days or more.

That noted, there is nothing inherently wrong with cutting-it-close.

As of the day you arrive to stay and live in Canada you count the number of days left before the fifth year anniversary since the day you landed, and add the days you have been present in Canada since the day you landed, and if that total number is 730 days or more, you will be in compliance with the PR RO as of the day you arrive to live in Canada. That's the rule. That is the technical and precise parameter. The minimum. That meets the PR Residency Obligation.

Recognizing the implications of cutting-it-close is about avoiding, or at least managing risks --
-- risk a CBSA or IRCC officer will doubt or challenge your claims about days spent in Canada
-- risk stuff happens and your planned date of arrival in Canada gets postponed
-- risk stuff happens and there are circumstances which compel you to go abroad for a period of time after you have come to settle in Canada
-- risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes) will be referred to Secondary and during the delay in getting a new PR card you will not be able to travel abroad without the inconvenience and risks involved in applying for a PR Travel Document (remember, a PR abroad without a valid status document is presumed to NOT have valid PR status)

What constitutes cutting-it-close is variable and the nature of the risks involved are variable, each depending on many factors specific to the individual. Overall, as I previously (and rather often in fact) observed, a PR tends to be on the cutting-it-close side of the PR RO if the PR is spending less than half the time in Canada or otherwise appears to not have, as yet, settled in Canada permanently. Again, there is nothing definitive or precise about this. It is a broad generalization. In discussing this I often round it down to 900 days, suggesting that less than 900 days is cutting-it-close. But again, this is RELATIVE. Depending on circumstances and personal history, a PR who has been in Canada less than 800 days (within the applicable five years) may have a minimal risk of problems, whereas some PRs who have been in Canada well over 900 days (within the applicable five years) have run into difficulties when applying for a new PR card.

It depends.


Which leads to your circumstances and query:

If you have not been living in Canada, and you arrive at the PoE with 670 days left until the fifth anniversary of the day you landed, and the PoE officer has questions about whether you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, what do you think? Really.

Here's what I think: odds are good the officer will NOT ask many, if any questions about compliance with the PR RO, particularly if you have been in Canada within the preceding year or so. Odds are good you will be waived through without any Secondary referral, except perhaps for Customs (depending on what you are bringing to Canada).

BUT there is a risk the border officer will have questions, and if there are questions, how it goes could depend on whether the officer believes your accounting of days already spent in Canada.

If you arrive as planned, even if there are questions about PR RO compliance, odds are good your accounting of days in Canada will suffice, no problem (particularly if you can specifically state the dates and even more so if your passport stamps support that accounting of dates). Good odds are NO guarantee, and actually far from it. There are risks this could go the other way. How it goes can depend, some, on your general demeanor and the officer's impression of your credibility, recognizing that the officer's attitude, even mood on that particular day, can of course affect what impression the officer has of your credibility.

But what happens if stuff happens and your return to Canada is delayed? The longer the delay, the greater the risks, and if the delay is longer than 24 days (which by the way is less than four weeks), the risks go up considerably because then you will actually be in breach of the PR RO.

Even if you arrive in Canada with 24 days over the minimum, that will mean you will be at risk again any time you travel abroad, even briefly. And if stuff happens requiring you to go abroad for longer, to resolve some unfinished business or attend to an ill parent or such, any time within the next two years plus two weeks (as of the fifth year anniversary of your landing, days during those first two weeks begin to fall outside the relevant five year time period and will no longer count), if you are abroad for more than 24 days you will be in breach of the PR RO, and anyone in breach of the PR RO has a substantial risk of being reported and losing PR status.

Moreover, this scenario will significantly increase the risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes to do that) will be referred to Secondary, and it could take a year or so before you are delivered a new PR card. So, for two years after you arrive in Canada to live in Canada, you will be more or less effectively unable to travel abroad (without risk), and it is quite likely there will continue to be substantial risks involved in traveling abroad for six months to a year beyond that.

Again, the actual risks involved VARY widely and thus each individual needs to exercise his or her own best judgment, both as to assessing the risks, and in terms of what risks the individual is willing to undertake. Some individuals (like me) tend to be risk-adverse and will pursue a course of action which minimizes risks and which avoids risks as much as possible. Many others will be less risk-adverse, willing to take more risks.

Caveat for those who tend to take more risks: some also tend to underestimate not just the risks themselves, but the factors which are relevant to assessing risks. Note, for example, the scenario posed here: landing Sept 15, 2014, 12 weeks in Canada prior to a planned arrival to live in Canada Nov. 14, 2018. The margin is NOT 4 weeks. It is more like 24 days. Anyone cutting it this close should pay attention to a difference like that. If something delays the date of actually coming to Canada by four weeks, that will NOT be cutting-it-close but will a BREACH of the PR RO, and arriving in Canada hoping the border officers do not question compliance with the PR RO (probably still a good chance, so long as it is not a lot later than that, but the risk scales tip dramatically once the PR is actually in breach of the PR RO).

Nonetheless, still, yes, 731 days within the relevant five years meets the PR RO. That's the requirement. As long as CBSA or IRCC does not disagree with the calculation, the PR is in compliance.
Hello Forum members,

Please, how does one know he has been reported for RO breach?
As I narrated in a previous post, I was taken into secondary inspection.
I was told that they can not verify my exits since I've been going back and forth between Canada and U.S.I usually drive into Canada any days that I'm off my work eg 2 or 3 days in a week
They asked me if I've been keeping records of my entry and exit, and I said yes.
I told the CBSA officer that I'm still living in U.S because I had to care for my mom who has cancer, and that I'll move to stay in Canada next year.
She typed for a long time at her computer, and asked me for my U.S driver's license. She said she needed to update my address and contact in their system. She also asked me for my U.S green card, but unfortunately I forgot it, so she told me to proceed into Canada.
So, how do I know if she reported me for breach of RO or not?
 

Lar70

Newbie
Oct 27, 2017
4
0
Cutting-it-close is a technical and very precise parameter, 23 days and 14 hours to be exact, give or take a few minutes.

JUST KIDDING!

I am just kidding to emphasize that observations about cutting-it-close are advisory: it is a descriptive caution, not at all definitive.

Aside from that, obviously, of course, your plan is indeed cutting-it-close, by about a hundred days or more.

That noted, there is nothing inherently wrong with cutting-it-close.

As of the day you arrive to stay and live in Canada you count the number of days left before the fifth year anniversary since the day you landed, and add the days you have been present in Canada since the day you landed, and if that total number is 730 days or more, you will be in compliance with the PR RO as of the day you arrive to live in Canada. That's the rule. That is the technical and precise parameter. The minimum. That meets the PR Residency Obligation.

Recognizing the implications of cutting-it-close is about avoiding, or at least managing risks --
-- risk a CBSA or IRCC officer will doubt or challenge your claims about days spent in Canada
-- risk stuff happens and your planned date of arrival in Canada gets postponed
-- risk stuff happens and there are circumstances which compel you to go abroad for a period of time after you have come to settle in Canada
-- risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes) will be referred to Secondary and during the delay in getting a new PR card you will not be able to travel abroad without the inconvenience and risks involved in applying for a PR Travel Document (remember, a PR abroad without a valid status document is presumed to NOT have valid PR status)

What constitutes cutting-it-close is variable and the nature of the risks involved are variable, each depending on many factors specific to the individual. Overall, as I previously (and rather often in fact) observed, a PR tends to be on the cutting-it-close side of the PR RO if the PR is spending less than half the time in Canada or otherwise appears to not have, as yet, settled in Canada permanently. Again, there is nothing definitive or precise about this. It is a broad generalization. In discussing this I often round it down to 900 days, suggesting that less than 900 days is cutting-it-close. But again, this is RELATIVE. Depending on circumstances and personal history, a PR who has been in Canada less than 800 days (within the applicable five years) may have a minimal risk of problems, whereas some PRs who have been in Canada well over 900 days (within the applicable five years) have run into difficulties when applying for a new PR card.

It depends.


Which leads to your circumstances and query:

If you have not been living in Canada, and you arrive at the PoE with 670 days left until the fifth anniversary of the day you landed, and the PoE officer has questions about whether you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, what do you think? Really.

Here's what I think: odds are good the officer will NOT ask many, if any questions about compliance with the PR RO, particularly if you have been in Canada within the preceding year or so. Odds are good you will be waived through without any Secondary referral, except perhaps for Customs (depending on what you are bringing to Canada).

BUT there is a risk the border officer will have questions, and if there are questions, how it goes could depend on whether the officer believes your accounting of days already spent in Canada.

If you arrive as planned, even if there are questions about PR RO compliance, odds are good your accounting of days in Canada will suffice, no problem (particularly if you can specifically state the dates and even more so if your passport stamps support that accounting of dates). Good odds are NO guarantee, and actually far from it. There are risks this could go the other way. How it goes can depend, some, on your general demeanor and the officer's impression of your credibility, recognizing that the officer's attitude, even mood on that particular day, can of course affect what impression the officer has of your credibility.

But what happens if stuff happens and your return to Canada is delayed? The longer the delay, the greater the risks, and if the delay is longer than 24 days (which by the way is less than four weeks), the risks go up considerably because then you will actually be in breach of the PR RO.

Even if you arrive in Canada with 24 days over the minimum, that will mean you will be at risk again any time you travel abroad, even briefly. And if stuff happens requiring you to go abroad for longer, to resolve some unfinished business or attend to an ill parent or such, any time within the next two years plus two weeks (as of the fifth year anniversary of your landing, days during those first two weeks begin to fall outside the relevant five year time period and will no longer count), if you are abroad for more than 24 days you will be in breach of the PR RO, and anyone in breach of the PR RO has a substantial risk of being reported and losing PR status.

Moreover, this scenario will significantly increase the risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes to do that) will be referred to Secondary, and it could take a year or so before you are delivered a new PR card. So, for two years after you arrive in Canada to live in Canada, you will be more or less effectively unable to travel abroad (without risk), and it is quite likely there will continue to be substantial risks involved in traveling abroad for six months to a year beyond that.

Again, the actual risks involved VARY widely and thus each individual needs to exercise his or her own best judgment, both as to assessing the risks, and in terms of what risks the individual is willing to undertake. Some individuals (like me) tend to be risk-adverse and will pursue a course of action which minimizes risks and which avoids risks as much as possible. Many others will be less risk-adverse, willing to take more risks.

Caveat for those who tend to take more risks: some also tend to underestimate not just the risks themselves, but the factors which are relevant to assessing risks. Note, for example, the scenario posed here: landing Sept 15, 2014, 12 weeks in Canada prior to a planned arrival to live in Canada Nov. 14, 2018. The margin is NOT 4 weeks. It is more like 24 days. Anyone cutting it this close should pay attention to a difference like that. If something delays the date of actually coming to Canada by four weeks, that will NOT be cutting-it-close but will a BREACH of the PR RO, and arriving in Canada hoping the border officers do not question compliance with the PR RO (probably still a good chance, so long as it is not a lot later than that, but the risk scales tip dramatically once the PR is actually in breach of the PR RO).

Nonetheless, still, yes, 731 days within the relevant five years meets the PR RO. That's the requirement. As long as CBSA or IRCC does not disagree with the calculation, the PR is in compliance.
Hello
Pls your explanation is not too clear. Does it mean that if one is unable to meet up with RO during the first 5 years of landing and such individual will not be able to renew his PR in later years after he had stayed in Canada to meet the RO? Or does it mean his application will go for secondary review because he could not meet the RO during the first 5 years of landing. Kindly update me. Another issue I want to find out is that can such individual continue to live in canada for let say another 4 years without travelling anywhere and after that apply for citizenship? The person will be working since he has SIN card, employment, health card, driver license.
Thanks
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
Please, how does one know he has been reported for RO breach?
As I narrated in a previous post, I was taken into secondary inspection.
I was told that they can not verify my exits since I've been going back and forth between Canada and U.S.I usually drive into Canada any days that I'm off my work eg 2 or 3 days in a week
They asked me if I've been keeping records of my entry and exit, and I said yes.
I told the CBSA officer that I'm still living in U.S because I had to care for my mom who has cancer, and that I'll move to stay in Canada next year.
She typed for a long time at her computer, and asked me for my U.S driver's license. She said she needed to update my address and contact in their system. She also asked me for my U.S green card, but unfortunately I forgot it, so she told me to proceed into Canada.
So, how do I know if she reported me for breach of RO or not?
As I recall, others and I have responded to your similar query in other topics; in particular, I believe I addressed the difference between being issued a 44(1) Report, a copy of which would be physically handed to you, and the possibility there was either a FOSS record made (almost certainly given your more recent description of the transaction) which would alert CBSA border officers, whenever you cross the border again, that there may be an issue, OR it is possible a referral was prepared and made to a local IRCC office, in which event it would be up to the local office whether there would be further inquiry, investigation, or proceedings. In the latter instance, IRCC could attempt to contact you pursuant to your last known contact information (it is up to you to keep that current). You might want to revisit those discussions.


Hello
Pls your explanation is not too clear. Does it mean that if one is unable to meet up with RO during the first 5 years of landing and such individual will not be able to renew his PR in later years after he had stayed in Canada to meet the RO? Or does it mean his application will go for secondary review because he could not meet the RO during the first 5 years of landing. Kindly update me. Another issue I want to find out is that can such individual continue to live in canada for let say another 4 years without travelling anywhere and after that apply for citizenship? The person will be working since he has SIN card, employment, health card, driver license.
Thanks
My post was about RISKs associated with cutting-it-close. While I referenced being in breach of the PR Residency Obligation, situations involving a breach are discussed in depth in several other topics/conversations here.

As I emphasized, there is nothing definitive about what constitutes cutting-it-close or the attendant risks. It is NOT clear because there is no clear rule or criteria.

To be clear, PR status is not "renewed."

A PR who fails to meet the PR Residency Obligation during the first five years is in breach of the PR Residency Obligation.

This is not self-executing, however. Being in breach of the PR RO has no effect unless and until CBSA or IRCC takes action on it, which will ordinarily happen only when the client (the PR) initiates some kind of transaction with CBSA or IRCC, like trying to enter Canada at a Poe, or applying for a PR TD from abroad, or applying for a new ("renewed") PR card, or applying to sponsor a family member, and pursuant to that transaction CBSA (at a PoE) or IRCC (in a Visa Office or an office in Canada) conducts a Residency Determination. If as of the date of the Residency Determination the PR is not in compliance with the PR RO, the PR is in breach and subject to losing PR status. The PR can, however, plead H&C reasons and if those reasons justify it, be allowed to keep PR status despite the breach of the PR RO.

It warrants remembering that a PR who is abroad for 1095 or more days prior to the fifth anniversary of landing is in breach of the PR RO, even if that PR has a PR card which is still valid, even one valid for more than another year. This is because once the PR is abroad 1095 days or more, within the first five years, it is no longer possible to be in compliance with the PR RO since there are not enough days left to accumulate 730 days present in Canada within the first five years.

It appears your other question relates to a PR who is IN Canada and who continues to live in Canada. If the PR was NOT reported for a breach of the PR RO, and the PR avoids any transactions with IRCC, stays in Canada continuously, after two years that PR's breach of the PR RO is cured. It is cured because the PR has not been reported and because the PR has been in Canada 730+ days within the preceding five years, and thus is in compliance.

And indeed, that PR could live in Canada continuously for three years and now that would qualify him or her for citizenship.

If the PR is reported for a breach of the PR RO along the way, however, time in Canada after the report is issued does not count toward meeting the PR RO. No matter how long it is.
 

canada11

Hero Member
Feb 7, 2015
575
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Category........
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Cutting-it-close is a technical and very precise parameter, 23 days and 14 hours to be exact, give or take a few minutes.

JUST KIDDING!

I am just kidding to emphasize that observations about cutting-it-close are advisory: it is a descriptive caution, not at all definitive.

Aside from that, obviously, of course, your plan is indeed cutting-it-close, by about a hundred days or more.

That noted, there is nothing inherently wrong with cutting-it-close.

As of the day you arrive to stay and live in Canada you count the number of days left before the fifth year anniversary since the day you landed, and add the days you have been present in Canada since the day you landed, and if that total number is 730 days or more, you will be in compliance with the PR RO as of the day you arrive to live in Canada. That's the rule. That is the technical and precise parameter. The minimum. That meets the PR Residency Obligation.

Recognizing the implications of cutting-it-close is about avoiding, or at least managing risks --
-- risk a CBSA or IRCC officer will doubt or challenge your claims about days spent in Canada
-- risk stuff happens and your planned date of arrival in Canada gets postponed
-- risk stuff happens and there are circumstances which compel you to go abroad for a period of time after you have come to settle in Canada
-- risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes) will be referred to Secondary and during the delay in getting a new PR card you will not be able to travel abroad without the inconvenience and risks involved in applying for a PR Travel Document (remember, a PR abroad without a valid status document is presumed to NOT have valid PR status)

What constitutes cutting-it-close is variable and the nature of the risks involved are variable, each depending on many factors specific to the individual. Overall, as I previously (and rather often in fact) observed, a PR tends to be on the cutting-it-close side of the PR RO if the PR is spending less than half the time in Canada or otherwise appears to not have, as yet, settled in Canada permanently. Again, there is nothing definitive or precise about this. It is a broad generalization. In discussing this I often round it down to 900 days, suggesting that less than 900 days is cutting-it-close. But again, this is RELATIVE. Depending on circumstances and personal history, a PR who has been in Canada less than 800 days (within the applicable five years) may have a minimal risk of problems, whereas some PRs who have been in Canada well over 900 days (within the applicable five years) have run into difficulties when applying for a new PR card.

It depends.


Which leads to your circumstances and query:

If you have not been living in Canada, and you arrive at the PoE with 670 days left until the fifth anniversary of the day you landed, and the PoE officer has questions about whether you are in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, what do you think? Really.

Here's what I think: odds are good the officer will NOT ask many, if any questions about compliance with the PR RO, particularly if you have been in Canada within the preceding year or so. Odds are good you will be waived through without any Secondary referral, except perhaps for Customs (depending on what you are bringing to Canada).

BUT there is a risk the border officer will have questions, and if there are questions, how it goes could depend on whether the officer believes your accounting of days already spent in Canada.

If you arrive as planned, even if there are questions about PR RO compliance, odds are good your accounting of days in Canada will suffice, no problem (particularly if you can specifically state the dates and even more so if your passport stamps support that accounting of dates). Good odds are NO guarantee, and actually far from it. There are risks this could go the other way. How it goes can depend, some, on your general demeanor and the officer's impression of your credibility, recognizing that the officer's attitude, even mood on that particular day, can of course affect what impression the officer has of your credibility.

But what happens if stuff happens and your return to Canada is delayed? The longer the delay, the greater the risks, and if the delay is longer than 24 days (which by the way is less than four weeks), the risks go up considerably because then you will actually be in breach of the PR RO.

Even if you arrive in Canada with 24 days over the minimum, that will mean you will be at risk again any time you travel abroad, even briefly. And if stuff happens requiring you to go abroad for longer, to resolve some unfinished business or attend to an ill parent or such, any time within the next two years plus two weeks (as of the fifth year anniversary of your landing, days during those first two weeks begin to fall outside the relevant five year time period and will no longer count), if you are abroad for more than 24 days you will be in breach of the PR RO, and anyone in breach of the PR RO has a substantial risk of being reported and losing PR status.

Moreover, this scenario will significantly increase the risk that your application for a new PR card (when the time comes to do that) will be referred to Secondary, and it could take a year or so before you are delivered a new PR card. So, for two years after you arrive in Canada to live in Canada, you will be more or less effectively unable to travel abroad (without risk), and it is quite likely there will continue to be substantial risks involved in traveling abroad for six months to a year beyond that.

Again, the actual risks involved VARY widely and thus each individual needs to exercise his or her own best judgment, both as to assessing the risks, and in terms of what risks the individual is willing to undertake. Some individuals (like me) tend to be risk-adverse and will pursue a course of action which minimizes risks and which avoids risks as much as possible. Many others will be less risk-adverse, willing to take more risks.

Caveat for those who tend to take more risks: some also tend to underestimate not just the risks themselves, but the factors which are relevant to assessing risks. Note, for example, the scenario posed here: landing Sept 15, 2014, 12 weeks in Canada prior to a planned arrival to live in Canada Nov. 14, 2018. The margin is NOT 4 weeks. It is more like 24 days. Anyone cutting it this close should pay attention to a difference like that. If something delays the date of actually coming to Canada by four weeks, that will NOT be cutting-it-close but will a BREACH of the PR RO, and arriving in Canada hoping the border officers do not question compliance with the PR RO (probably still a good chance, so long as it is not a lot later than that, but the risk scales tip dramatically once the PR is actually in breach of the PR RO).

Nonetheless, still, yes, 731 days within the relevant five years meets the PR RO. That's the requirement. As long as CBSA or IRCC does not disagree with the calculation, the PR is in compliance.

Thank you for the wonderful detail reply.

What I infer is that I am technically not in breach of PR RO but I can be questioned,for which I should have reasonable evidence to prove that I have been in Canada for 84 days/12 weeks in previous 3 years which can counted in the 731 days.However, it can turn out to be a hassle if they were not in mood to accept & get reported.

Most viable, although it will to be "cut-it-close" as well, is that I should make before 8 Oct so that 24 days minimum threshold could be met.

In both the above cases I should have my document ready to prove that I was there in Canada like boarding cards, tickets, exit stamps, baby birth certificate etc. . BTW we were their twice to have babies in 2016 & 2017.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,472
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Thank you for the wonderful detail reply.

What I infer is that I am technically not in breach of PR RO but I can be questioned,for which I should have reasonable evidence to prove that I have been in Canada for 84 days/12 weeks in previous 3 years which can counted in the 731 days.However, it can turn out to be a hassle if they were not in mood to accept & get reported.

Most viable, although it will to be "cut-it-close" as well, is that I should make before 8 Oct so that 24 days minimum threshold could be met.

In both the above cases I should have my document ready to prove that I was there in Canada like boarding cards, tickets, exit stamps, baby birth certificate etc. . BTW we were their twice to have babies in 2016 & 2017.
If you used your provincial health card and then left when you had both children you will be looking at having to pay back the costs for delivery if you only remained in Canada for a short amount of time. Hopefully you paid cash.
 

canada11

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Feb 7, 2015
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If you used your provincial health card and then left when you had both children you will be looking at having to pay back the costs for delivery if you only remained in Canada for a short amount of time. Hopefully you paid cash.
Yea ..I don't have health card yet :) because never completed 90 days requirement
 

ibry

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Jul 25, 2010
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Canada
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Parents in same shoes hey got a residency questionaire and a blue letter to report to canada for interview within 6 months. Came through the us border. Went for the interview. Given a report said to wait for manager to contact us. Whats expected. They have been taking care of aged parents. I need a miracle.
 

canada11

Hero Member
Feb 7, 2015
575
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Category........
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Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
18-Jul-2014
VISA ISSUED...
02-Jul-2015
LANDED..........
15-Sep-2015
Wondering if you could tell us how much you paid for a delivery in Canada. It is something that people ask every now and then on the forum.
CAD 9000 & CAD 7000.. in 7000 , there were no epidural taken .. both normal & straight forward case
 

canuck_in_uk

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May 4, 2012
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Calgary has coverage from day 1
Coverage may be from day 1 but people must meet the residency requirements by living in Alberta for at least 6 months. Another requirement is that they make their permanent home in Alberta, so AHCIP could still go after people who obviously come here just for the 6 months and then leave, as they never intended to remain permanently.
 

ibry

Hero Member
Jul 25, 2010
660
86
Canada
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
LANDED..........
2011
Coverage may be from day 1 but people must meet the residency requirements by living in Alberta for at least 6 months. Another requirement is that they make their permanent home in Alberta, so AHCIP could still go after people who obviously come here just for the 6 months and then leave, as they never intended to remain permanently.
Wow.... thats interesting to know! I Must have the wrong advice