Changes on Oct 11, 2017 - Executive summary/FAQ C-6

[dpenabill]

hi everyone,

Not sure if it is clear already whether we can apply on the 11th or whether we need to wait until the 12th to apply. I am hoping to be able to reach out to IRCC and ask them directly on Tuesday. If few more others could try do the same (in case if some of us cannot get a hold of them) and post here what they were told by IRCC directly, it would be great. Thoughts?

At the end of the form it says:

IMPORTANT NOTE:
Remember to make sure that you are eligible to apply for citizenship on the day BEFORE you sign this application.

So if they keep it in the new form (which is so probable), it seems that the earliest time that we(those who become eligible based on C-6) can apply is October 12. Is it correct?

Someone else, in another thread as I recall, observed that he or she was planning to apply on October 11 "like everybody else."

I'd phrase that differently. Perhaps: "like a lot of other fools."

And I'd include those planning to apply October 12th and 13th, as among those foolish enough to not wait a few days, to not wait long enough to be sure the rollout goes smoothly, to not wait long enough to avoid being among the very first applications which total-stranger-bureaucrats are processing in the steepest part of their learning curve (learning and applying new rules and new forms and new instructions).

Acknowledging perhaps some will apply on October 11 because they are racing to be the first new-rules casualty reported in the forum.

And that in turn brings us to this question several have posed in the last few days, about whether someone relying on the new 3/5 rule can apply on October 11, recognizing that technically they will not be eligible on October 10, and the application instructions clearly state that the applicant must be eligible the day BEFORE the application is signed/made.

In terms of a technically correct answer, I think others have already given that. That is, for an application made October 11 it is not necessary that the applicant have been eligible on October 10, when the 4/6 rule would apply. What matters is that as of October 10, the applicant meets the qualifications under the law in effect as of the day the application is made, October 11. That is, technically it should be OK to make a 3/5 rules application on October 11.

I agree with that, because that is what I think the law prescribes (and the application instructions cannot impose any requirements other than what the law provides for). But I am not a Canadian lawyer. I am not an expert. I am not at all certain that IRCC agrees with this.

I am certain, however, that anyone who is not racing to be the first new-rules casualty reported in the forum, does not want to be the one testing it. Not if they give it a moment's thought.

So let us be frank. Is this really a sincere question?

It is difficult for me to grasp that anyone who has some doubt about the technical validity of their application which could be so easily and definitively resolved by waiting one day more to apply, is seriously considering applying on October 11 rather than October 12, and would seriously make that decision based on what someone in a forum like this says.

As I already noted, and which is as obvious as where the sun will rise, it is outright foolish to apply on October 11th anyway. The 12th likewise.

Sure, many will apply October 11th. And many if not most will eventually take the oath of citizenship (assuming IRCC agrees with the interpretation offered above). Some may even reach the oath a week sooner than those who waited a week or two weeks longer to apply. However, many will take their oath later, but of course that will be for various reasons which may or may not be related to the precise date they applied.

Overall, applying a week sooner is not likely to mean getting to the oath any more than a week sooner, at the most, while taking risks it could take much longer. And again the risks are as obvious as knowing the sun will rise on the eastern horizon. Only fools will undertake substantial risks when there is very little prospective benefit.



Why emphasize this?

Scores of people come to this forum with real, sincere questions, looking for genuine guidance, honest and helpful answers.

Junk questions are a distraction. This particular question is being asked so often I am not sure it is a sincere or junk question.

It is obvious that many among the near quarter million PRs who today are not eligible for citizenship, but come Wednesday October 11 they will be eligible (under the new rules), are planning to apply and many will indeed apply soon. More than a few among them probably have numerous questions.

My most frequent refrain is If in doubt, read the instructions; otherwise, yep, read the instructions.

And that looms large for those approaching applying soon under the new rules. Recognizing the new instructions will not be available until October 11 at the soonest.


But there is also the most common refrain overall: use some common-sense!

Which leads back to the question about waiting just one more day to be sure the application is valid: that really is a no-brainer.

And there are many, many other questions about when to apply for which just a little common-sense is enough to recognize that waiting a little longer could significantly avoid some otherwise serious risks.

For any question which can be resolved by waiting one or ten days longer, DUH! Never mind if technically it is OK to not wait, common-sense shouts loud and clear: WAIT the extra day or ten days. Take the easy and safe route.

Applying with a comfortable margin is among these should-be-obvious common-sense guidelines. And a "comfortable margin" is largely about how much margin will allow a total-stranger-bureaucrat to feel comfortable with the application, to feel comfortable there are no mistakes or omissions.

 

[itsmyid]

And I'd include those planning to apply October 12th and 13th, as among those foolish enough to not wait a few days, to not wait long enough to be sure the rollout goes smoothly, to not wait long enough to avoid being among the very first applications which total-stranger-bureaucrats are processing in the steepest part of their learning curve (learning and applying new rules and new forms and new instructions).

I don’t think applying on the first day or a week or even two weeks later would make any difference, since it would still take over a month or so to get AOR and your application sent on the first day is most likely mixed with tons of others that come days later. But I also don’t think there’s a need to wait to “ be sure it tools out smoothly “ - this is CIC we are talking about, whether it rolls out smoothly or not is not something they are able or willing tell people right away, if at all - you will most likely have to wait for months to find out, like the disastrous new procedures for parent-sponsorship ... or never find out. Did it roll out smoothly at the beginning of C24? Nobody knows. As long as you are sure you filled in all needed information and included all the requested document (and made copies of all), you should be fine to send out your application

 

[CICOtawa]

Someone else, in another thread as I recall, observed that he or she was planning to apply on October 11 "like everybody else."

I'd phrase that differently. Perhaps: "like a lot of other fools."

And I'd include those planning to apply October 12th and 13th, as among those foolish enough to not wait a few days, to not wait long enough to be sure the rollout goes smoothly, to not wait long enough to avoid being among the very first applications which total-stranger-bureaucrats are processing in the steepest part of their learning curve (learning and applying new rules and new forms and new instructions).

Acknowledging perhaps some will apply on October 11 because they are racing to be the first new-rules casualty reported in the forum.

And that in turn brings us to this question several have posed in the last few days, about whether someone relying on the new 3/5 rule can apply on October 11, recognizing that technically they will not be eligible on October 10, and the application instructions clearly state that the applicant must be eligible the day BEFORE the application is signed/made.

In terms of a technically correct answer, I think others have already given that. That is, for an application made October 11 it is not necessary that the applicant have been eligible on October 10, when the 4/6 rule would apply. What matters is that as of October 10, the applicant meets the qualifications under the law in effect as of the day the application is made, October 11. That is, technically it should be OK to make a 3/5 rules application on October 11.

I agree with that, because that is what I think the law prescribes (and the application instructions cannot impose any requirements other than what the law provides for). But I am not a Canadian lawyer. I am not an expert. I am not at all certain that IRCC agrees with this.

I am certain, however, that anyone who is not racing to be the first new-rules casualty reported in the forum, does not want to be the one testing it. Not if they give it a moment's thought.

So let us be frank. Is this really a sincere question?

It is difficult for me to grasp that anyone who has some doubt about the technical validity of their application which could be so easily and definitively resolved by waiting one day more to apply, is seriously considering applying on October 11 rather than October 12, and would seriously make that decision based on what someone in a forum like this says.

As I already noted, and which is as obvious as where the sun will rise, it is outright foolish to apply on October 11th anyway. The 12th likewise.

Sure, many will apply October 11th. And many if not most will eventually take the oath of citizenship (assuming IRCC agrees with the interpretation offered above). Some may even reach the oath a week sooner than those who waited a week or two weeks longer to apply. However, many will take their oath later, but of course that will be for various reasons which may or may not be related to the precise date they applied.

Overall, applying a week sooner is not likely to mean getting to the oath any more than a week sooner, at the most, while taking risks it could take much longer. And again the risks are as obvious as knowing the sun will rise on the eastern horizon. Only fools will undertake substantial risks when there is very little prospective benefit.



Why emphasize this?

Scores of people come to this forum with real, sincere questions, looking for genuine guidance, honest and helpful answers.

Junk questions are a distraction. This particular question is being asked so often I am not sure it is a sincere or junk question.

It is obvious that many among the near quarter million PRs who today are not eligible for citizenship, but come Wednesday October 11 they will be eligible (under the new rules), are planning to apply and many will indeed apply soon. More than a few among them probably have numerous questions.

My most frequent refrain is If in doubt, read the instructions; otherwise, yep, read the instructions.

And that looms large for those approaching applying soon under the new rules. Recognizing the new instructions will not be available until October 11 at the soonest.


But there is also the most common refrain overall: use some common-sense!

Which leads back to the question about waiting just one more day to be sure the application is valid: that really is a no-brainer.

And there are many, many other questions about when to apply for which just a little common-sense is enough to recognize that waiting a little longer could significantly avoid some otherwise serious risks.

For any question which can be resolved by waiting one or ten days longer, DUH! Never mind if technically it is OK to not wait, common-sense shouts loud and clear: WAIT the extra day or ten days. Take the easy and safe route.

Applying with a comfortable margin is among these should-be-obvious common-sense guidelines. And a "comfortable margin" is largely about how much margin will allow a total-stranger-bureaucrat to feel comfortable with the application, to feel comfortable there are no mistakes or omissions.

Some may even reach the oath a week sooner than those who waited a week or two weeks longer to apply

I don’t think applying on the first day or a week or even two weeks later would make any difference, since it would still take over a month or so to get AOR and your application sent on the first day is most likely mixed with tons of others that come days later. But I also don’t think there’s a need to wait to “ be sure it tools out smoothly “ - this is CIC we are talking about, whether it rolls out smoothly or not is not something they are able or willing tell people right away, if at all - you will most likely have to wait for months to find out, like the disastrous new procedures for parent-sponsorship ... or never find out. Did it roll out smoothly at the beginning of C24? Nobody knows. As long as you are sure you filled in all needed information and included all the requested document (and made copies of all), you should be fine to send out your application

"Some may even reach the oath a week sooner than those who waited a week or two weeks longer to apply"
I don't agree with this, when 50K applications are ahead, the delay will be in matter of months not week. Also, as you said you are not an expert then don't call others fool.

 

[CICOtawa]

I don’t think applying on the first day or a week or even two weeks later would make any difference, since it would still take over a month or so to get AOR and your application sent on the first day is most likely mixed with tons of others that come days later. But I also don’t think there’s a need to wait to “ be sure it tools out smoothly “ - this is CIC we are talking about, whether it rolls out smoothly or not is not something they are able or willing tell people right away, if at all - you will most likely have to wait for months to find out, like the disastrous new procedures for parent-sponsorship ... or never find out. Did it roll out smoothly at the beginning of C24? Nobody knows. As long as you are sure you filled in all needed information and included all the requested document (and made copies of all), you should be fine to send out your application

"If you look at the CIC Operation manual, application will be processed FIFO and they are not mixed. They will be entered to GCMS and automatically sorted based on the received day "

 

[itsmyid]

"If you look at the CIC Operation manual, application will be processed FIFO and they are not mixed. They will be entered to GCMS and automatically sorted based on the received day "

Of course it will be FIFO in theory , but in reality plenty of people have experienced differently

 

[nofrills]

I don’t think applying on the first day or a week or even two weeks later would make any difference, since it would still take over a month or so to get AOR and your application sent on the first day is most likely mixed with tons of others that come days later. But I also don’t think there’s a need to wait to “ be sure it tools out smoothly “ - this is CIC we are talking about, whether it rolls out smoothly or not is not something they are able or willing tell people right away, if at all - you will most likely have to wait for months to find out, like the disastrous new procedures for parent-sponsorship ... or never find out. Did it roll out smoothly at the beginning of C24? Nobody knows. As long as you are sure you filled in all needed information and included all the requested document (and made copies of all), you should be fine to send out your application

I think the point s/he is trying to make is that the approach to apply as soon as the starting gun goes off on Oct 11 and at 1095 days exactly, will have associated risks. This is true. The safe bet is to wait until you have a clear margin of error so that your application doesn't go under the microscope or get sent back to you for whatever reason. I think this makes sense.

Reading some of these replies, it looks as though some folks weren't prepared for some of the information that the application asks for - which is kind of amazing given the dozens of months we've spent on this forum waiting for C6 to be implemented.

I would have been eligible on 11 Oct as I became a PR Sep 2015 and was here a few years before then on a LMO - however I've been out the country for 165 days (work and leisure), so will be eligible mid Nov. I've documented all my travel, have all my documents ready and have begun reviewing the citizenship test preparation - looking forward to applying

 

[razerblade]

I think the point s/he is trying to make is that the approach to apply as soon as the starting gun goes off on Oct 11 and at 1095 days exactly, will have associated risks. This is true. The safe bet is to wait until you have a clear margin of error so that your application doesn't go under the microscope or get sent back to you for whatever reason. I think this makes sense.

Reading some of these replies, it looks as though some folks weren't prepared for some of the information that the application asks for - which is kind of amazing given the dozens of months we've spent on this forum waiting for C6 to be implemented.

I would have been eligible on 11 Oct as I became a PR Sep 2015 and was here a few years before then on a LMO - however I've been out the country for 165 days (work and leisure), so will be eligible mid Nov. I've documented all my travel, have all my documents ready and have begun reviewing the citizenship test preparation - looking forward to applying

It is indeed shocking how most here haven't even read the instruction guide yet, and are planing to apply on Oct 11th. Most of the questions being asked here are already answered in the instruction guide, and it couldn't be simpler. PR application was 10 folds more complicated.

 

[CICOtawa]

Let's be practical, on OCT 11, thousands of application being sent, Would CIC send all back because of this technicality? Considering they will receive these applications back a few days later and they have to process them twice? Are they really have this capability in this time??

 

[itsmyid]

It is indeed shocking how most here haven't even read the instruction guide yet, and are planing to apply on Oct 11th. Most of the questions being asked here are already answered in the instruction guide, and it couldn't be simpler. PR application was 10 folds more complicated.

No surprise here... many people would rather posting the same question in multiple threads than spending 5 Minutes reading the instruction themselves ...

Also, it seems like the number of applications right after 10/11 won’t be as large as we thought , as lot of people will still need time to get the police certificates from other countries

 

[Ontarian2017]

Who must meet knowledge of Canada and language ability requirements:



Recognizing that tweets are not an official source (albeit of course some are from a reliable source), I am posting to affirm that anyone who was 55 or older when they applied, including any who already applied and whose application is still pending, will be exempt from the language and knowledge of Canada requirements . . . once the new rules come into force, presumably October 11.

Once the applicable provisions come into force, for both PENDING applications and future applications, who must meet knowledge of Canada and language ability requirements will depend on the applicant's age at the time the application is made, the requirements applying to those applicants who are 18 or older and less than 55 at the time the application was made.

In particular, the new provisions, as prescribed in Section 1(6) in Bill C-6, will govern ALL applications made after June 11, 2015 (there are some applications made prior to June 11, 2015 still in process, and there are separate provisions governing the language and knowledge of Canada requirements for those applicants, pursuant to Bill C-24 transitional provisions, in effect preserving the pre-Bill C-24 exemption for those under 18 and over 54 applying prior to June 11, 2015).

This is prescribed by Section 18 in Bill C-6, which provides that pending applications (made after June 11, 2015) will be governed by the language and knowledge of Canada requirements as enacted by Bill C-6.

Here is the actual language of Section 18 in Bill C-6 (with some emphasis added):

18 Paragraphs 5(1)(d) and (e) of the Citizenship Act, as enacted by subsection 1(6), apply to a person whose application for citizenship was made on or after June 11, 2015 but before the day on which that subsection comes into force and has not been finally disposed of before the day on which that subsection comes into force.


The structure of Section 18 in Bill C-6 is a bit convoluted, but the key elements are:
-- new version of 5(1)(d),(e) in the Citizenship Act (version enacted by Bill C-6 Section 1(6)) applies to applications
-- -- made after June 11, 2015 and
-- -- made before October 11 (substituting October 11 for reference to the day Bill C-6 Section 1(6) comes into force)
-- -- and still pending (that is, not yet finalized before October 11)




Section 18 is apparently the culprit.

It is all too easy to get tangled sideways when trying to navigate transitional provisions still subject to uncertain coming into force contingencies. Transitional provisions, in particular, are notoriously difficult to unravel until some of the other pieces in the puzzle are in place, and even then the contingent cross-references can be tricky to navigate. Once significant parts of the overall puzzle have been largely solved (a reliable tweet can help), so to say, it may look like it should have been easy. It almost never was. More than occasionally the best efforts of those drafting the legislation are undermined by tangled conditionals failing to accommodate all the angles, and subsequent legislation is necessary to fix the law to meet the legislative intention. Bill C-6 actually includes this kind of fix for a mistake in the transitional provisions in Bill C-24 . . . this is Section 24 in Bill C-6, fixing a gap in the applicability of prohibitions left by the transitional provisions in Bill C-24.

Thank you for your detailed post;
QUESTION: If some one applied a month ago i.e September 01, 2017 he/she will not be asked for knowledge test?

 

[nofrills]

Let's be practical, on OCT 11, thousands of application being sent, Would CIC send all back because of this technicality? Considering they will receive these applications back a few days later and they have to process them twice? Are they really have this capability in this time??

The CIC process thousands of applications for several types of travel documents (visas, citizenship, cards, passports, etc.) - they are employed to go through a process, there is no such thing as a 'technicality' - the application is either eligible, is not eligible or requires further information.

If you look at the other threads relating to applications, you will see dozens if not hundreds of posts indicating that an application was delayed or rejected because it was incomplete, not accurate or ineligible.

 

[Whocares]

Almost 40-60% of applicants will have to wait for PCs before sending thier applications ( including myself). So guys if you don't need a PC then really you should apply immediately.

I really suggest all who are affected with the PCs to submit it because this will be the officers excuse to delay the applications. FINGER CROSSED this will be only for 3 years not 4.

 

[itsmyid]

Almost 40-60% of applicants will have to wait for PCs before sending thier applications ( including myself). So guys if you don't need a PC then really you should apply immediately.

I really suggest all who are affected with the PCs to submit it because this will be the officers excuse to delay the applications. FINGER CROSSED this will be only for 3 years not 4.

Only 2 days left to find out, and considering the current concern about national security , I don’t believe they will reduce it to 3 - even at the press release last week the reporters didnt forget to bring up Edmonton to ask the minister about his plan for security - imagine the reply being “ we decide to reduce the requirement of criminal record check from 4 to 3 years!”

 

[Whocares]

Only 2 days left to find out, and considering the current concern about national security , I don’t believe they will reduce it to 3 - even at the press release last week the reporters didnt forget to bring up Edmonton to ask the minister about his plan for security - imagine the reply being “ we decide to reduce the requirement of criminal record check from 4 to 3 years!”

But we can hope man. I don't think one year is a big difference for security. The Somali guy entered Canada in late 2012 so he would not even need a police certificate if he applies now or when he applied under the c24 bill.

 

[ibry]

hi everyone,

Not sure if it is clear already whether we can apply on the 11th or whether we need to wait until the 12th to apply. I am hoping to be able to reach out to IRCC and ask them directly on Tuesday. If few more others could try do the same (in case if some of us cannot get a hold of them) and post here what they were told by IRCC directly, it would be great. Thoughts?

I am not applying on Oct 11 to avoid mistakes and backflux of application. I would be waiting a week. If you have buffer days you can apply on the 11th someone called after 30 minutes of being on hold and was advised to apply on the 12th