October 11th 2017 - Citizenship Applicants under 3/5 rule
- Thread starter HamiltonApplicant
- Start date
Everyone is assuming forms will be released in the early hours of Oct 11. And yeah people who came to Canada *after* getting PR in the last 3 years will need to get police certificates.
Ok. If you spent 183 outside. I dont have that. That means i might miss the date oct 11 to apply.* Sad face*
I could be wrong, but I think if someone came to Canada 3 years ago, and prior to that if they were living in some country other than Canada, then they will need to provide police certificates from that country.
Police certificate(s) (as required)
You are required to provide a police certificate for each country, other than Canada, where you were present for a total of 183 days or more during the four (4) years immediately before the date of your application
I concur. This is the current requirement.
There is no reason to anticipate this requirement will change anytime soon since there are no changes in the applicable prohibitions period of time (it is and will continue to be four years).
But the criteria IRCC applies for determining who needs to submit a police certificate is an administrative, discretionary matter, so this part of the application could, possibly, change. Not likely it will, but it could.
Indeed, IRCC could conclude the police certificate requirement is entirely redundant, since the applicant must otherwise disclose any prohibitions, including convictions abroad within the preceding four years. And thus drop the police certificate requirement altogether. Again, not likely but possible.
All of which leads to a very important admonition: applicants need to carefully and thoroughly read the new instructions, and carefully apply them to their own case. The form will change. The instructions will change. While many changes are easily anticipated, there is no substitution for carefully reading and following the actual instructions which apply. And no one in the public is going to see those before sometime during the day October 11.
I am eligible on 11th Oct, but my wife will be eligible after 3 months as she was outside Canada for 3 month. Shall I wait for 3 months for her to be eligible and apply together or shall I apply alone now and she will apply after 3 months. Please suggest.
Applying together is recommended, it reinforces each others presence in Canada for Residency obligations standpoint. Make sure your wife also has 10-15 days of buffer residency...
Hi,
I don’t want to start a whole new thread for my questions so I’m just gonna ask here. I’m preparing my application for after Oct 11 and while looking at the current application, I had some questions:
1. Under the work/education section, I came to canada in mid-august 2013 as PR, and started university in september 2013. Now this section states not to skip any gaps during the relevant time period. So do I need to make an entry for the few weeks of august before starting my studies? If yes, what do you suggest I write?
2. Under the taxes section, I don’t think I need to mention 2017 since we don’t file 2017 taxes this year anyways, am I correct?
I don’t want to start a whole new thread for my questions so I’m just gonna ask here. I’m preparing my application for after Oct 11 and while looking at the current application, I had some questions:
1. Under the work/education section, I came to canada in mid-august 2013 as PR, and started university in september 2013. Now this section states not to skip any gaps during the relevant time period. So do I need to make an entry for the few weeks of august before starting my studies? If yes, what do you suggest I write?
2. Under the taxes section, I don’t think I need to mention 2017 since we don’t file 2017 taxes this year anyways, am I correct?
truesmile
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Bull$#&* !! I disagree, recommended by whom? "Reinforcing your presence" is done via number of days in Canada, NOT by applying together with your spouse.
The police certificate issue is much less of an issue for citizenship applications than for PR process. It is highly unlikely that someone will have to provide more than one police certificate for the citizenship process, while it is very possible to need several for the PR process (I needed four, for example). So in this case a tiny bit of planning would have been enough to solve the problem, especially considering that we
The observation by HamiltonApplicant is a well-known, well-understood, and commonly given suggestion or recommendation, for good and rather obvious reasons.
Any circumstance which corroborates residency ties in Canada tends to corroborate presence. The more the whole picture reflects a person whose life is well-settled and centralized in Canada, the more comfortable a total stranger bureaucrat is likely to be that the applicant's account of days in Canada does not need closer examination.
In contrast, any circumstance which indicates ties abroad or the possibility the applicant is not fully settled in Canada . . . such as one spouse applying when the other does not, suggesting the couple has not fully settled together in Canada . . . can lead to questions, can point to what CIC and IRCC have, at various times, referred to as risk indicators or reasons-to-question-residency (or question presence).
As for "the number of days in Canada," in particular, in the routine application the only direct evidence of the number of days actually spent in Canada is the applicant's signature on the presence calculator attesting (claiming) that all dates of entry into Canada and dates of exit from Canada are accurately listed. This calculation is thus dependent on an inference that the applicant remained in Canada on the days between the last reported date of entry and the next reported date of exit. All it takes is some doubt in a total stranger bureaucrats thinking to put that inference at risk.
After all, there is no requirement at all that a PR have been employed while in Canada, but not only must the applicant report all work history during the relevant time period, there must be NO gaps in that work history (thus, for example, periods of unemployment must be specifically reported). Full employment at a job in Canada corroborates (reinforces) the proposition the applicant was present in Canada during that time. And that is the biggest reason work history is required. (And the converse: any indication of employment abroad will raise questions about time spent in Canada.)
Risk indicators do not mean an application will fail. So it is not as if spouses applying separately will in itself cause a problem. But the vast majority of applicants prefer to avoid non-routine processing, and especially prefer to avoid RQ. Thus, most applicants prudently pay attention to more than just their accounting of the number of days when deciding the right time to apply. Waiting a little longer to apply together with a spouse is simply the more prudent approach since the respective residency and presence information will, as HamiltonApplicant has said, reinforce evidence of living a life together in Canada, thus reinforcing the declaration of days present in Canada.
If, however, one spouse has indeed spent many more days abroad, and especially if the spouse has continued to have employment abroad, or has other circumstances which might invite non-routine processing (that is, has other risk indicators), separate applications make sense. No reason bogging both applications down because one gets non-routine processing and elevated scrutiny.
In the presence calculator, in work history, and in address history, the applicant needs to cover the full period of time in the relevant time period. When the 3/5 and pre-PR credit rules take effect, this will probably be the last five years or since coming to Canada, whichever was more recent. (We need to wait to see actual language in form and presence calculator and instructions to know for sure how IRCC will describe the relevant time period.) NO gaps. And no gaps means no gaps.
How to describe, in the application, such as in the work history section, a settling-in period of time prior to starting a job or starting school, is a personal decision, recognizing again that the applicant should not leave any gaps in time, and otherwise the applicant needs to give his or her best, HONEST answer. "Settling-in" should work for some, "looking for work" might work from someone else, "waiting for xxx to start" might work, and for some simply "unemployed" or "between university sessions," might work. As long as there is no gap, what is stated is an honest answer and is otherwise consistent (a nine month settling-in period, in contrast, could raise questions), the details will ordinarily not be important.
No need to overthink things.
Likewise the tax filing obligation section. No need to overthink things. Here again, prospective applicants need to wait and see what the actual form and instructions say. And follow the instructions. But sure, like the current form it will probably ask for information about the preceding tax YEARS (six currently, five after the law changes). For an application filed in 2017, obviously (for most) the most recent TAX YEAR is 2016.
