Careful days calculation

[cempjwi]

I was wondering if anyone has experienced any of the following scenarios when calculating physical presence.

The guidelines say that being present in Canada on the day one leaves or arrives counts as a day in Canada. However, how do we effectively determine what it means to be "in Canada"? I'll explain this question with the following scenarios:

Scenario 1: International flight scheduled for departure at 11pm on May 1. However, flight did not depart until 2am on May 2 due to technical issues. Passenger checked-in at 9pm and entered the departure terminal soon after that but did not board until 12:30am, ultimately departing at 2am. Where you in Canada on May 1 or May 2? Does one have to follow the scheduled departure time? This has happened to me and I consider my departure date and time to be that of the scheduled departure, but what do you think?

Scenario 2: International flight scheduled to arrive in Canada at 11pm on May 1. Flight lands at 11:30pm and passenger is not able to make it through immigration until 12:30am on May 2 due to heavy passenger flow. Did you arrive in Canada on May 1 or May 2? Does one have to follow the scheduled arrival time or the time one made it into the immigration system? This has happened to me and I consider my arrival date and time to be that of the date and time my immigration record was created, but what do you think?

 

[devilhimselff]

Just use the Ticket for reference for airplane timings and go by that. We did that. No one can keep track of those things. Again if you have good buffer (extra days) it won't be an issue.

 

[cempjwi]

Just use the Ticket for reference for airplane timings and go by that. We did that. No one can keep track of those things. Again if you have good buffer (extra days) it won't be an issue.

Thanks. Anyone submitting a citizenship application should have a copy of their travel itinerary documents. It seems you are suggesting to have a buffer for every day one cannot accurately calculate (due to not knowing how to deal with either scenario) and to disagree with, or at least ignore, immigration records (at least for scenario 2), correct?

 

[devilhimselff]

Applying with few extra days is always safe. Just in case if you forgot to pen down a trip, miscalculated on e-calculator, etc etc. I will never recommend applying precisely on eligibility day.

If you do have stamps on yours passport use that for exit and entry, that is the best way, in my opinion. Otherwise tickets.

 

[cempjwi]

Applying with few extra days is always safe. Just in case if you forgot to pen down a trip, miscalculated on e-calculator, etc etc. I will never recommend applying precisely on eligibility day.

Absolutely, I totally agree, but my post was looking for opinions on what should be used on either scenario for lack of better direction from CIC. You appear to suggest to ignore immigration records and use reservation records, plus you add that we all should add buffers. We may all add buffers even when calculations are accurate, but if we add buffers when calculations are inaccurate, wouldn't that make the buffer inaccurate as well? A buffer of 10 days with 10 days miscalculated gives you no buffer at all. I would compare your comment to saying that while a white background on immigration/citizenship pictures is required, off-white is fine.

Stamps are not always helpful because if you leave Toronto for Hong Kong, for example, you may arrive there 2 days later, and using the date on the stamp will negatively impact your calculation for 2 days; same applies to most trips to Europe - your stamp is a day late. So, while stamps are ok to prove that you actually traveled, they are a really bad example of what should be followed for days calculation.

I strongly disagree with that, at least for the return (scenario 2), one should use itineraries to override what an immigration record says. If your record says that you returned on May 2, there is probably very little you can do to convince CIC that because you were supposed to land at 11:30pm the day before, they should accept it as such without verifying what time the flight landed and why your record says a date you claim is otherwise, which effectively may delay the processing of your application.

For scenario 1, it may be necessary to accept that one needs to use the date on the itinerary, even if your flight's departure was delayed past beyond that date. An exception is to have alternative travel arrangement documents to prove one left later, such as in the case of a cancelled flight for which one has to catch a flight on the next day(s). Then again, for such a case, one should not even mention one was supposed to leave the days before one actually left.

 

[SATDXB]

Or else apply for travel history report from CBSA and follow the dates.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/thr-rav-eng.html

 

[devilhimselff]

Or else apply for travel history report from CBSA and follow the dates.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/thr-rav-eng.html

Yup if any concerns get this.

I just told you what worked for us. We checked our USA entry and exits online (there were quite a few vacations to USA) matched it with our itinerary. The rest was done examining the stamps and itinerary. Had no issues. Adding extra days before applying is a personal choice.

Good luck.

 

[Kamran2015]

In reality the time you actually leave Canada by plane is your departure. So if you leave Canada by 1:30 am on May 2nd, you have been in Canada on May 2nd (versus your original departure at 11:00 pm on May first). However, as your boarding pass doesnt prove it, you will have a hard time to prove it and you should only count May 1st unless you can have some proof that the plane left late.

In the other scenario when you arrive at 11:30 pm on May 1st, but by the time you pass immigration it is 12:30 am on May 2nd there is not question: you only get credit for May 2nd and not May 1st as the time you formally enter Canada is when you pass the immigration.

I was wondering if anyone has experienced any of the following scenarios when calculating physical presence.

The guidelines say that being present in Canada on the day one leaves or arrives counts as a day in Canada. However, how do we effectively determine what it means to be "in Canada"? I'll explain this question with the following scenarios:

Scenario 1: International flight scheduled for departure at 11pm on May 1. However, flight did not depart until 2am on May 2 due to technical issues. Passenger checked-in at 9pm and entered the departure terminal soon after that but did not board until 12:30am, ultimately departing at 2am. Where you in Canada on May 1 or May 2? Does one have to follow the scheduled departure time? This has happened to me and I consider my departure date and time to be that of the scheduled departure, but what do you think?

Scenario 2: International flight scheduled to arrive in Canada at 11pm on May 1. Flight lands at 11:30pm and passenger is not able to make it through immigration until 12:30am on May 2 due to heavy passenger flow. Did you arrive in Canada on May 1 or May 2? Does one have to follow the scheduled arrival time or the time one made it into the immigration system? This has happened to me and I consider my arrival date and time to be that of the date and time my immigration record was created, but what do you think?

 

[_MK_]

I took a look at my CBSA reports.

The times and date on those are based on when you pass immigration. so if you are leaving Canada through air to US, you will have a record on US border records of entry.
If you leave through land border, you get the same.

When you come into Canada and scan your PR card/passport, you get an entry in the CBP record.

So in my opinion if you want to save yourself the hassle and worry, just count your days based on that. Unless you travel in and out of Canada 4-5 times a month or more, you wont need too many extra days of buffer.
Always better to err on the side of caution. You do not want to come up a day short due to assumptions made that dont have a concrete answer on IRCC website.

 

[Vicky333]

I had an international (non-US) flight at 11pm which was cancelled. i.e. I went through security at 9:30pm, but then came back "into" Canada at 2am the next day.

So no exit was recorded from Canada (is this correct?) but an entry was.

I am expecting to have to explain that one in person. Thoughts?

 

[cempjwi]

I had an international (non-US) flight at 11pm which was cancelled. i.e. I went through security at 9:30pm, but then came back "into" Canada at 2am the next day.

So no exit was recorded from Canada (is this correct?) but an entry was.

I am expecting to have to explain that one in person. Thoughts?

Exits are not recorded. If you never departed, then you never came back. Passing security does not mean you left Canada - even boarding the plane does not mean you left Canada; only when the plane takes off and lands outside of Canada it counts as if you left Canada. Does your CBSA record show that you entered Canada that day?

 

[Vicky333]

Does your CBSA record show that you entered Canada that day?

Yes it does. Because we were in the international section of the airport, we all had to pass through immigration (scanned our PR cards, etc) to get home again.