Proof of funds question

[svikashk]

Quick question.

I noticed that once you receive an ITA, you should upload the bank statement as proof of funds. Previously, I didn't have the amount that was needed, but then my dad transferred some amount into my account which will help me show my balance as over CAD $12,300. I know that I can't borrow money from someone, but I read somewhere that it would be okay if we submitted a document from my dad saying that he's gifting the money to me and I wouldn't have repay the amount.

My question is:
1. Should I upload this document as well along with the bank statement? If yes, I'm assuming we're allowed to upload multiple attachments?
2. Should this document be in an official stamp paper?

 

[dannyhcean]

I'd be wary of doing anything like this, it's completely against the rules and won't be condoned by anyone on here. They may not notice but you're taking a risk, I'm sure you're already aware of this.

What's your view on student loans? I had a degree in the US from which I took some loans. Should I disclose it too?

 

[thourb]

What's your view on student loans? I had a degree in the US from which I took some loans. Should I disclose it too?

My view is yes - you should show your student loan. It is still a loan and technically forms part of a debt which you are due to repay at some point. I don't know how they work in the US, but in the UK they work almost like a graduate tax - i.e. if you don't work and earn at least around £20,000 per year, you don't pay anything back. IRCC aren't going to reject people on the basis of their student debt, otherwise they would never get any graduates come to live in Canada. So yes, disclose it, but I don't think it will cause you any problems. The only time you will get problems if you genuninely have enough money is when you misrepresent.

In fact, the way that they treat student loans gives me further reason to believe that they don't actually consider your net worth (i.e. assets minus all liabilities) when calculating whether you have sufficient funds for POF. Essentially the UK student loan is just another debt, but the minimum repayment whilst you are unemployed is zero. If they deal with other debts (such as unsecured loans and credit cards) in this same way, then when calculating proof of funds they could only justifiably calculate your minimum repayments for the first six months of your time in Canada and expect you to be able to prove this extra money on top of the minimum POF.

You can tell my attitude towards this whole process is risk-averse: You could well get away without having disclosed your debt, but do you really want to take that chance and risk a five year ban?

 

[thourb]

I am aware. However, I cant think of any other way without raising concerns.

Or alternatively you could be honest with IRCC and just save up the money yourself, over a period of months or years if necessary, like the vast majority of us have?

You're blatantly trying to cheat the system and if you do that and get caught then you deserve to receive the ban for misrepresentation. Not saying you'll get caught, but I'm not going to provide you advice on how to cheat the system.

 

[wickerman]

Or alternatively you could be honest with IRCC and just save up the money yourself, over a period of months or years if necessary, like the vast majority of us have?

You're blatantly trying to cheat the system and if you do that and get caught then you deserve to receive the ban for misrepresentation. Not saying you'll get caught, but I'm not going to provide you advice on how to cheat the system.

I do aim to save up. And I am not saying I am going to borrow. I am just saying that its probably the only way you can borrow money and get away with it if at all there are no other options.

 

[Chuchoq22]

Hi guys , mi wife its the ppal aplicant on our process we are now up loading all the documents , we are here in canada since 2015 she did college and now both of us are working , my questions is this: do wee need to have 16000$ cad or if we have for example and ours employment letters we are good? Thanks

 

[dannyhcean]

My view is yes - you should show your student loan. It is still a loan and technically forms part of a debt which you are due to repay at some point. I don't know how they work in the US, but in the UK they work almost like a graduate tax - i.e. if you don't work and earn at least around £20,000 per year, you don't pay anything back. IRCC aren't going to reject people on the basis of their student debt, otherwise they would never get any graduates come to live in Canada. So yes, disclose it, but I don't think it will cause you any problems. The only time you will get problems if you genuninely have enough money is when you misrepresent.

In fact, the way that they treat student loans gives me further reason to believe that they don't actually consider your net worth (i.e. assets minus all liabilities) when calculating whether you have sufficient funds for POF. Essentially the UK student loan is just another debt, but the minimum repayment whilst you are unemployed is zero. If they deal with other debts (such as unsecured loans and credit cards) in this same way, then when calculating proof of funds they could only justifiably calculate your minimum repayments for the first six months of your time in Canada and expect you to be able to prove this extra money on top of the minimum POF.

You can tell my attitude towards this whole process is risk-averse: You could well get away without having disclosed your debt, but do you really want to take that chance and risk a five year ban?

Good thoughts and thanks! I totally agree with the risk aversion principle. We don't know how much they know, so being honest as much as possible and adhering to the written rules are probably the best option. That'd limit the effect of having to depend on the CIC assessors' sympathy if they did dig suspicious stuff out. Most people would normally think that the worst would probably not happen to themselves but that's not the good mentality going into this kind of minefield of a process. The cost of being caught in something ambiguous is too high.

Well the student loan I took was actually more like a commercial loan. I needed to pledge to repay a monthly minimum regardless of the employment situation. However the outstanding balance isn't that high and shall be paid up within the next 6 months. That should be okay to disclose if need be.

 

[AWD]

Do we need to show application and landing fees in bank statement along with expected proof of funds?

 

[samuelja]

Yes makes sense. If it helps, I am thinking of borrowing some cash from friends and "slipping it in", over the course of 3 months. A deposit of a few hundred dollars at a time, wont raise any concerns in my opinion, but could add up to 1 or 2K by the time you generate the bank statement. If that wont be possible, then I should just borrow cash and use cash and not touch my account.

Also if you are applying only after a month, then you have atleast 4 months minimum to show proof of funds (if you are assuming you will go through the draw immediately). Assuming you can accumulate enough funds, by then, you should be good imo.

Your method of "slipping it in" is pretty dangerous so tread carefully. The consequences of Misrepresentation is a 5-year ban from applying for PR in Canada. You have a good job in the US and I know you would be thoroughly educated as well. Any attempts to sideline the system might not be caught now but later it can be an issue. Why do you want the thought of a ban for your entire life? Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

 

[thourb]

Hi Everyone

I have a question regarding proof of funds.

Do I need to include my credit card statements too?

I am planning to just submit my bank statements, and I have sufficient funds.

However, if I include credit card debt, then I wont have enough (bank balance - credit card debt). So am unsure about what to do. Could you please help out.

Bumping this up now as I have an answer from IRCC on this question:

I've just spoken to IRCC on the phone as I've seen this question asked many times and there's never been a consistent and authoritative answer. The agent I spoke to said the following:

The funds that you show as proof of funds must themselves be debt free. That does not mean that you need to be debt free yourself, nor does it mean that you must show additional funds which could be used to clear your debt: it simply means that you cannot have borrowed funds in order to prove that you meet the required amount. You must be able to demonstrate where the funds came from: This may mean providing bank statements etc as an officer can do whatever enquiries and ask for whatever documents he wishes in order to establish where the funds came from. It will be down to you to then provide this proof.

The lady was very clear that you must disclose all of your debts, including loans, student loans, car loans and credit cards. This is so that IRCC can be sure that you did not borrow funds to show POF. They are, however, not interested in your net worth at all and only want to be sure that the funds in your account are liquid and can be withdrawn at any time.

To be completely clear and to illiustrate the point: it is the specific funds that are in your account which must be unencumbered by debt. For example: If you have $15312 in your savings account (enough for a family of two) and you have credit card debts of $5000, then you do meet the proof of funds requirement, so long as you did not borrow that money from any source. Those funds are not considered to be encumbered by debt. If, however, you have $15312 and you borrowed $5000 from your credit card or took a loan in order to meet the POF requirement, then those funds are encumbered by that debt and that would leave you with a net balance of only $10,312 leaving you $5000 short.

Hope this helps, I'm pleased as it means I can apply as soon as I get an ITA

 

[wickerman]

Bumping this up now as I have an answer from IRCC on this question:

I've just spoken to IRCC on the phone as I've seen this question asked many times and there's never been a consistent and authoritative answer. The agent I spoke to said the following:

The funds that you show as proof of funds must themselves be debt free. That does not mean that you need to be debt free yourself, nor does it mean that you must show additional funds which could be used to clear your debt: it simply means that you cannot have borrowed funds in order to prove that you meet the required amount. You must be able to demonstrate where the funds came from: This may mean providing bank statements etc as an officer can do whatever enquiries and ask for whatever documents he wishes in order to establish where the funds came from. It will be down to you to then provide this proof.

The lady was very clear that you must disclose all of your debts, including loans, student loans, car loans and credit cards. This is so that IRCC can be sure that you did not borrow funds to show POF. They are, however, not interested in your net worth at all and only want to be sure that the funds in your account are liquid and can be withdrawn at any time.

To be completely clear and to illiustrate the point: it is the specific funds that are in your account which must be unencumbered by debt. For example: If you have $15312 in your savings account (enough for a family of two) and you have credit card debts of $5000, then you do meet the proof of funds requirement, so long as you did not borrow that money from any source. Those funds are not considered to be encumbered by debt. If, however, you have $15312 and you borrowed $5000 from your credit card or took a loan, then those funds are encumbered by that debt and that would leave you with a net balance of only $10,312 leaving you $5000 short.

Hope this helps, I'm pleased as it means I can apply as soon as I get an ITA

Phew! Thank you for looking into this!

No all of my funds are savings from my Salary and have nothing to do with my Credit Card debt.

Thats such a relief haha.

 

[thourb]

Hi Everyone

I have a question regarding proof of funds.

Do I need to include my credit card statements too?

I am planning to just submit my bank statements, and I have sufficient funds.

However, if I include credit card debt, then I wont have enough (bank balance - credit card debt). So am unsure about what to do. Could you please help out.

Hey Wickerman,

Thought you might like to know that I got my PPR today. Posting here so that there is a definitive answer to your earlier question regarding credit card debts - it's a question I've seen asked quite a lot. This is based on my experience and communication with IRCC:

1. You MUST tell IRCC about all of your debts - credit cards, loans, overdrafts etc. It is asked in black and white in the application form. If IRCC find out later on in the application that you have failed to tell them something, this could be grounds for rejection and possible misrepresentation.

2. IRCC simply DO NOT CARE about your levels of personal unsecured debt. They care only about ensuring that you have the funds available to you and that you didn't borrow them. They clearly want to be sure that you have sufficient funds on hand to get started in Canada and to ensure that your debts aren't structured in such a way as to make your first months in Canada difficult, bearing in mind you may not have a job.

3. Tell them about any student loans you may have as well. These may not be relevant, but it seems that the visa processing officer looks kindly upon people who are very up-front in their application.

The settlement funds for our application is in a jointly held bank account with myself and my partner's name on the account. We provided 6 months of bank statements, stamped and dated by the bank, showing the gradual build up of the funds and for 3 months showing the funds in excess of the required amount.

Bottom line: Bank balance - unsecured debts: We would not have enough money to be accepted - yet here we are today with PPR email. Hope this puts your mind at rest!

 

[wickerman]

Hey Wickerman,

Thought you might like to know that I got my PPR today. Posting here so that there is a definitive answer to your earlier question regarding credit card debts - it's a question I've seen asked quite a lot. This is based on my experience and communication with IRCC:

1. You MUST tell IRCC about all of your debts - credit cards, loans, overdrafts etc. It is asked in black and white in the application form. If IRCC find out later on in the application that you have failed to tell them something, this could be grounds for rejection and possible misrepresentation.

2. IRCC simply DO NOT CARE about your levels of personal unsecured debt. They care only about ensuring that you have the funds available to you and that you didn't borrow them. They clearly want to be sure that you have sufficient funds on hand to get started in Canada and to ensure that your debts aren't structured in such a way as to make your first months in Canada difficult, bearing in mind you may not have a job.

3. Tell them about any student loans you may have as well. These may not be relevant, but it seems that the visa processing officer looks kindly upon people who are very up-front in their application.

The settlement funds for our application is in a jointly held bank account with myself and my partner's name on the account. We provided 6 months of bank statements, stamped and dated by the bank, showing the gradual build up of the funds and for 3 months showing the funds in excess of the required amount.

Bottom line: Bank balance - unsecured debts: We would not have enough money to be accepted - yet here we are today with PPR email. Hope this puts your mind at rest!

Thanks thourb. I havent yet submitted my application. Infact I have to deny my ITA and wait for the next invite because of a delay in the FBI PCC processing. So I didnt bother getting proof of funds documents yet.

Could you please let me know what specifically you submitted for the credit cards? Is it a statement? Or a letter?

 

[thourb]

Thanks thourb. I havent yet submitted my application. Infact I have to deny my ITA and wait for the next invite because of a delay in the FBI PCC processing. So I didnt bother getting proof of funds documents yet.

Could you please let me know what specifically you submitted for the credit cards? Is it a statement? Or a letter?

Submitted the latest statement for each of my credit cards, nothing more. Stated in a letter of explanation words to the effect of "As requested, I enclose my latest Credit Card statements showing my outstanding debts. No money was borrowed from these credit cards to facilitate immigration and I have no further undisclosed debts".

Good luck with your application, at least you know now that this isn't an issue!

 

[wickerman]

Submitted the latest statement for each of my credit cards, nothing more. Stated in a letter of explanation words to the effect of "As requested, I enclose my latest Credit Card statements showing my outstanding debts. No money was borrowed from these credit cards to facilitate immigration and I have no further undisclosed debts".

Good luck with your application, at least you know now that this isn't an issue!

Indeed! Awesome! Thank you! And good luck with the move