Thanks HamiltonApplicant, that letter is indeed scary. I have submitted every document pertinent to my case, I'm not sure what else I can submit, if I do get RQ-ed. I do have a query, however. If, as according to you, I was in breach of my RO by May 2014, shouldn't I have been chastised by the customs officer when I landed in Aug of 2014?
PR Renewal - Got secondary review email twice. Any thoughts?
- Thread starter abi90
- Start date
It is not the customs officers' place chastise you, all they can do is to red flag you, they have no legal authority deny you entry. The rest depends upon particular individuals, some of them throw their weight around, some don't!
Please prepare a note as to why you could not come to Canada during bachelor's. Secondly, prepare your family connections to Canada. You have a strong case, just that the process can really be taxing...
Actually there are numerous reports about warnings or admonishments given PRs, by PoE CBSA officers, regarding compliance with the PR Residency Obligation.
Whether an admonishment or caution constitutes chastising or not, is not the point. Most of these reports indicate the context was either
-- in the vein of a heads-up, intended to inform the PR that further absences from Canada could put PR status at risk, a helpful reminder of sorts, or
-- in effect putting the PR on notice that there are concerns about the PR's compliance with the PR RO, from which the PR should be aware there are probably negative notes in FOSS, red flags if you will
The former is more friendly than the latter. It seems likely even the former usually results in some kind of note in FOSS. But the indications are clear that instances characterized by the latter almost always result in a FOSS notation which is prominent enough that the next time the individual is examined, upon returning to Canada again later, or in having a PRC or PR TD application processed, or in the processing of a citizenship application, the alert is clear to the examiner. That is, again, there is a red flag of some sort, so to say.
But it also happens that CBSA border officers sometimes notice something, a concern, but elect to not make an issue of it at the time, and nonetheless make a FOSS note which can be intended to alert a subsequent examining officer to look for a potential issue, like potential failure to comply with the PR RO.
Admonishments are common. They are usually friendly advice of a sorts, even though the potential consequences about which the individual is being warned can be quite severe. The warnings are not intended to scare or hurt. They are intended to give the individual information which, if heeded, should help the individual to avoid further problems.
There are scores of participants in this forum who have failed to take heed. And their travails are here recounted with dismay.
I am reminded of a participant here who reports having gone abroad while his or her PRC application is in Secondary Review, who asserts expecting a PR TD application to not take one day longer than the reported minimum timeline for PR TDs in the respective visa office. Got to shake the head. Wince a bit. Bite one's lip. And even then "REALLY!" inevitably slips off the tongue. I mention this because IRCC gives lots and lots of clues and hints and overt suggestions, and CBSA cooperates, likewise often letting PRs know they are approaching this or that risk. More than a few ignore the clues, like the fact that having a PRC application in SR means IRCC has concerns, perhaps outright suspicions, about the validity of the individual's PR status.
Despite the referral to SR, there is little or nothing to worry much about for any PR who has in fact met the PR RO, and who has not made any misrepresentations to CBSA or IRCC in the course of becoming a PR or otherwise in obtaining entry into Canada. For such PRs, SR is mostly an inconvenience.
It is an inconvenience which should be taken seriously, of course, and in particular the PR should timely and responsively reply to all requests from IRCC. But the PR who has in fact met the PR RO, and who has not made any misrepresentations, need not worry about the ultimate outcome . . . so long as, of course, the PR stays with the process and provides documentation and information as requested, if requested.
The process can take some time, however, perhaps a long amount of time. It is inconvenient.
While SR does not preclude traveling abroad, it does mean that a PR in these circumstances, who considers traveling abroad, needs to be prepared for the process of applying for a PR TD while abroad. This means --
-- being prepared to submit persuasive evidence of compliance with the PR RO in making the PR TD application, and otherwise rebut the negative statutory presumption of not having valid PR
-- being prepared to be spend time abroad pending the processing of the PR TD application, which can be lengthy, and
-- for a PR who has not been clearly settled in Canada (appearances counting almost as much as the facts) being prepared to make an appeal, including being prepared to document presence in Canada within the last year in order to qualify for a special PR TD to come to Canada pending the appeal, as well as being prepared to remain abroad pending the process of appealing and applying for the special PR TD
Leading to this:
Which is to say, the prospects of getting a new PR card by September are not great. How not great is impossible to say, but not great enough to count on getting it.
And the problem is there is no way to get a better sense about how long it is going to take. You could make a request for urgent processing, supported by documentation from the employer as to the need for this travel, and be issued a new PRC soon thereafter. Or not. And no one here can quantify the odds for you.
Whether to nonetheless travel, counting on obtaining a PR TD for the return to Canada, is a very personal judgment call.
Where to is a big factor. Going to the U.S., for example, no big deal if a flight to a city near Canada will work, which would allow you to then take ground transportation to the border. No PR TD necessary. Similarly if flying back via the U.S. is a possibility, again flying to a city near Canada and traveling to a land border crossing from there. Crossing the border in the circumstances described, over 900 days presence in the last three years, employed in Canada, documentation to show date of most recent exit from Canada, odds are good there will not be much of an examination regarding PR RO compliance, and even if there is, you just need to be prepared for it and it should go fine. There is no worry about being allowed into Canada, as a PR you are entitled to entry, and will be allowed entry.
Otherwise, if a PR TD will be needed . . . if the problem is getting to the Canadian border, if a PR TD is needed in order to board a flight to Canada . . . it is a more difficult call.
If a PR TD will be needed, there are many, many individual factors to consider. Main factor to consider is whether it is practical to postpone or cancel the trip. That is what makes the most sense in the absence of an unavoidable, compelling need to make the trip. Not just a matter of importance, but a matter of dominate compelling need.
As discussed in depth in other topics, for a PR with a PRC application in SR and who has spent more time outside Canada in the last five years than in Canada (which, for any time not objectively documented as in Canada, tips reasonable inferences toward concluding at least the possibility the PR was abroad during those days, since the more reasonable inference is that a person was where he or she was most of time), there are significant risks . . . and the prospect of a lengthy processing time looms large in that calculation.
Whether an admonishment or caution constitutes chastising or not, is not the point. Most of these reports indicate the context was either
-- in the vein of a heads-up, intended to inform the PR that further absences from Canada could put PR status at risk, a helpful reminder of sorts, or
-- in effect putting the PR on notice that there are concerns about the PR's compliance with the PR RO, from which the PR should be aware there are probably negative notes in FOSS, red flags if you will
The former is more friendly than the latter. It seems likely even the former usually results in some kind of note in FOSS. But the indications are clear that instances characterized by the latter almost always result in a FOSS notation which is prominent enough that the next time the individual is examined, upon returning to Canada again later, or in having a PRC or PR TD application processed, or in the processing of a citizenship application, the alert is clear to the examiner. That is, again, there is a red flag of some sort, so to say.
But it also happens that CBSA border officers sometimes notice something, a concern, but elect to not make an issue of it at the time, and nonetheless make a FOSS note which can be intended to alert a subsequent examining officer to look for a potential issue, like potential failure to comply with the PR RO.
Admonishments are common. They are usually friendly advice of a sorts, even though the potential consequences about which the individual is being warned can be quite severe. The warnings are not intended to scare or hurt. They are intended to give the individual information which, if heeded, should help the individual to avoid further problems.
There are scores of participants in this forum who have failed to take heed. And their travails are here recounted with dismay.
I am reminded of a participant here who reports having gone abroad while his or her PRC application is in Secondary Review, who asserts expecting a PR TD application to not take one day longer than the reported minimum timeline for PR TDs in the respective visa office. Got to shake the head. Wince a bit. Bite one's lip. And even then "REALLY!" inevitably slips off the tongue. I mention this because IRCC gives lots and lots of clues and hints and overt suggestions, and CBSA cooperates, likewise often letting PRs know they are approaching this or that risk. More than a few ignore the clues, like the fact that having a PRC application in SR means IRCC has concerns, perhaps outright suspicions, about the validity of the individual's PR status.
Despite the referral to SR, there is little or nothing to worry much about for any PR who has in fact met the PR RO, and who has not made any misrepresentations to CBSA or IRCC in the course of becoming a PR or otherwise in obtaining entry into Canada. For such PRs, SR is mostly an inconvenience.
It is an inconvenience which should be taken seriously, of course, and in particular the PR should timely and responsively reply to all requests from IRCC. But the PR who has in fact met the PR RO, and who has not made any misrepresentations, need not worry about the ultimate outcome . . . so long as, of course, the PR stays with the process and provides documentation and information as requested, if requested.
The process can take some time, however, perhaps a long amount of time. It is inconvenient.
While SR does not preclude traveling abroad, it does mean that a PR in these circumstances, who considers traveling abroad, needs to be prepared for the process of applying for a PR TD while abroad. This means --
-- being prepared to submit persuasive evidence of compliance with the PR RO in making the PR TD application, and otherwise rebut the negative statutory presumption of not having valid PR
-- being prepared to be spend time abroad pending the processing of the PR TD application, which can be lengthy, and
-- for a PR who has not been clearly settled in Canada (appearances counting almost as much as the facts) being prepared to make an appeal, including being prepared to document presence in Canada within the last year in order to qualify for a special PR TD to come to Canada pending the appeal, as well as being prepared to remain abroad pending the process of appealing and applying for the special PR TD
Leading to this:
Yes, it is near impossible to forecast how long SR'd cases take. But a lot of them are easily taking longer than four months. While there have been many reports of it taking a year or longer, more recent reports suggest the timeline is not so long as that for most. But there is not a lot to give hope it will be less than four months.
Which is to say, the prospects of getting a new PR card by September are not great. How not great is impossible to say, but not great enough to count on getting it.
And the problem is there is no way to get a better sense about how long it is going to take. You could make a request for urgent processing, supported by documentation from the employer as to the need for this travel, and be issued a new PRC soon thereafter. Or not. And no one here can quantify the odds for you.
Whether to nonetheless travel, counting on obtaining a PR TD for the return to Canada, is a very personal judgment call.
Where to is a big factor. Going to the U.S., for example, no big deal if a flight to a city near Canada will work, which would allow you to then take ground transportation to the border. No PR TD necessary. Similarly if flying back via the U.S. is a possibility, again flying to a city near Canada and traveling to a land border crossing from there. Crossing the border in the circumstances described, over 900 days presence in the last three years, employed in Canada, documentation to show date of most recent exit from Canada, odds are good there will not be much of an examination regarding PR RO compliance, and even if there is, you just need to be prepared for it and it should go fine. There is no worry about being allowed into Canada, as a PR you are entitled to entry, and will be allowed entry.
Otherwise, if a PR TD will be needed . . . if the problem is getting to the Canadian border, if a PR TD is needed in order to board a flight to Canada . . . it is a more difficult call.
If a PR TD will be needed, there are many, many individual factors to consider. Main factor to consider is whether it is practical to postpone or cancel the trip. That is what makes the most sense in the absence of an unavoidable, compelling need to make the trip. Not just a matter of importance, but a matter of dominate compelling need.
As discussed in depth in other topics, for a PR with a PRC application in SR and who has spent more time outside Canada in the last five years than in Canada (which, for any time not objectively documented as in Canada, tips reasonable inferences toward concluding at least the possibility the PR was abroad during those days, since the more reasonable inference is that a person was where he or she was most of time), there are significant risks . . . and the prospect of a lengthy processing time looms large in that calculation.
Thanks Dpenabill, for your informative answer. Applying for PRTD is out of the question for me. I looked at the requirements, the documents required, plus given that I'll be applying from India, the processing times, and it is a waste of time and energy. Especially when I'll need to be there only for 2 weeks. I guess my only option is to wait, and if things don't work out, resign myself to the fact that I will not be travelling this year.
I am an Indian citizen. I do have a B1/B2. But I don't know if I'll be granted entry there, If I'll tell them the purpose is to use the land border to go over to Canada.
I too have B1/B2 US visa and I have done several trips via US and never had any issues. You can mention that you are a Canadian PR and just transiting via US to cross over to Canada. I am not from one of the 6 countries but still, never had any issues.
Yes. No problem based on my experience. And Pakistan in not one of the 6. So you shouldn't have any problem.
Hi Everybody - I just wanted to update my post to add that my application was approved. Here is my timeline:
Permanent Resident Card
Permanent Resident Card
- We received your application for a permanent resident card on April 27, 2017.
- We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s) on June 25, 2017.
- We started processing your application on June 25, 2017.
- I got the secondary review email on 26th June 2017
- Your Permanent Resident card was sent by mail on November 24, 2017
Nope, no extra documents, and no, I had not applied for urgent processing, since I didn't have a valid reason to. I did, however, send 2-3 queries to IRCC, called their call center 3 times, and also logged a request with AITP at IRCC to have my FOSS notes released (which hasn't arrived yet, it's been ~3 months since I submitted the request). In short, I harassed them quite a bit.
khalid h
Hero Member
- Jan 21, 2010
- 33
- Category........
- Visa Office......
- Islamabad.....UK
- NOC Code......
- 7213
- Job Offer........
- Pre-Assessed..
- App. Filed.......
- 09 July 09
- Doc's Request.
- 11 Sep 09
- Nomination.....
- 05 Jan 2010
- AOR Received.
- 20th Jan 2010
- IELTS Request
- 7 sent with docs
- File Transfer...
- 30th June 2010
- Med's Request
- 1st May 2012
- Med's Done....
- 21st May 2012
- Interview........
- No please
- Passport Req..
- PPR1-18th July, PPR2- 17th August
- VISA ISSUED...
- 5th Sept 2012
- LANDED..........
- 17th October 2012 inshAllah