Same Sex Conjugal sponsorship possible?

[Arceus]

Hello -
I will be hiring a lawyer to help me as I want my partner brought here as quick as possible - the only thing is I am not sure which route to take - Conjugal or Spousal - let me explain

He is from Costa Rica with a tyrannical oppressive religious (Catholic) government which outlawed Gay Marriage, Same Sex Civil unions and all kinds of partnerships to that support. It is one of the main countries that supplies the vatican will $$$$ so I don't expect this to change (along with the majority of Central America ruled by this type of religious government).

ANYWAYS ^_^ we have been together in a real relationship for almost 3 years now with daily texts, phone calls, pictures, etc and I visit him once a year as its so prohibitively expensive to do so (they are on par with USD!) I wonder will this once a year+ short visit affect our application negatively? He got rejected for a visitor visa basically as he was too poor to travel outside of his own country without my help - regardless I had around $7000 for his visit with a proven stamped bank statement - and ofc the old lie of not having enough family ties to return (age old call of opression) - that was 1.5 yrs ago - since then we didn't apply for visitor visa again.
I am going to see him in Dec and we have one prohibitvely expensive option..go to Argentina to get married (the LEAST expensive and hassle free - takes 10 business days if you hire someone like gay argentina dot com or similar same sex marriage "helpers". They are genuine but super expensive..so thats $5000 for lawyer here in Canada $2500 for airplane tickets to Argentina from Costa Rica round trip..$500 for a cheap hotel for the 10 days and ofc food + $2700 USD for this gay marriage certification package.

If I did Conjugal then we can skip the expense of that and just hire the Canada Lawyer who is a pioneer in gay marriage here in west coast with 100% success in gay family class sponsorship in BC - just google her

So if anyone can Advise me please let me know as i'm not a rich man and all that excess Argentina money needs to not only be earned before Dec but also would be better spent here on him when he comes here!

Sorry for the long post - hope its all clear! Love any well versed/experienced responses!

 

[MaryL]

I'm just thinking that I have heard of one couple in same situation in morocco. However they were refused. They did appeal but in their province it took a couple yrs...to even do appeal. It's hard. But in appeal they win.
Also visa offices expect family members to be at wedding. If you go somewhere and get married, romantic, yes but you have to include families. It's all about proof.
I would suggest finding the post on here that is country specific also. You may find someone who just go thru what you are describing. Hopefully you here more input by morning. Best wishes.

 

[Arceus]

I'm just thinking that I have heard of one couple in same situation in morocco. However they were refused. They did appeal but in their province it took a couple yrs...to even do appeal. It's hard. But in appeal they win.
Also visa offices expect family members to be at wedding. If you go somewhere and get married, romantic, yes but you have to include families. It's all about proof.
I would suggest finding the post on here that is country specific also. You may find someone who just go thru what you are describing. Hopefully you here more input by morning. Best wishes.

Hi thanks for responding - however your answer was very vague. Could you please provide me specific details about their case and also I searched through the forums as best I could - there is no other Costa Rica same-sex conjugal post. Lastly can you show me documentation that we need to have direct family members present for Canada Visa offices on the CIC website? As far as I'm aware there is no such rule - only that witnesses should be present - this includes friends, attorney's, associates and family...so yes please elaborate

Thanks!

 

[Classic Chucks]

1. Do not hire a lawyer. The app is fairly easy as long as you follow all the instructions.
2. Conjugal app is not possible for you if there are ways for you to live together or get married somewhere else.
3. Have him apply a tourist visa again. If approve, get married in Canada. File for spousal sponsorship afterwards.
4. If denied for tourist visa, get married in Argentina. Then go home and file for spousal sponsorship.
5. Get married in a legitimate, legal way.

 

[Arceus]

1. Do not hire a lawyer. The app is fairly easy as long as you follow all the instructions.
2. Conjugal app is not possible for you if there are ways for you to live together or get married somewhere else.
3. Have him apply a tourist visa again. If approve, get married in Canada. File for spousal sponsorship afterwards.
4. If denied for tourist visa, get married in Argentina. Then go home and file for spousal sponsorship.
5. Get married in a legitimate, legal way.

What if we want to do all the marriage in Canada? were not an out couple..and what is the downside to hiring a lawyer?
Lastly - I'm trying to save money - what if I dont have the financial resources to go to Argentina?

 

[Classic Chucks]

What if we want to do all the marriage in Canada? were not an out couple..and what is the downside to hiring a lawyer?

Then have him apply for a tourist visa first.

Downside: expensive and most of the time they mess up the application! All right, some can be reliable too. But as I've said, most applicants in this forum had applied on their own. CIC had made the forms a lot easier to understand and complete.

Lastly - I'm trying to save money - what if I dont have the financial resources to go to Argentina?

Is there any other country that you can get married in? Have your signicant other apply for a Canadian tourist visa first and see what options you have after that.

 

[MaryL]

Am sitting here working a nightshift making an attempt to help you.
Here is a quote from Splinter 420
From 2015. Hope this helps!
6Jan 29, 2015 at 10:16 PM
RABAT -- MOROCCO...Im gonna tell you know I hope your application has no holes even if it doesn't the Visa Officers are known to ignore evidence and simply ignore the truth. The common reasons for denial not a genuine relationship/entered solely for the visa, description of our relationship was more friendly, didn't demonstrate common projects/goals (we want to start a family, travel the world together, own property, start a Moroccan restaurant together)...evidence was ignored in my situation I have two life insurance policies (him as main beneficiary), American Express Credit Cards together on 1 account, moneytransfers. letters, chat history (thicker then The Lord of the Rings trilogy), two vacations together with evidence. The conjugal category is meant for certain criteria. Which we follow because of the immigration barrier and the legal status of homosexuality in Morocco. Thiscategory was designed for someone in my situation. If not for the immigration barrier we would be common law or more by now as we have been in a relationship for six years.

A conjugal partner is a foreign national residing outside Canada who is in a conjugal relationship with a sponsor for at least one year (yeap check), but could not live with the sponsor as a couple(yeap check). This term applies to both heterosexual and homosexual couples. This category was established for partners of sponsors who normally would present an application as spouse or common-law partner but cannot due to circumstances beyond their control (e. g., immigration barrier (yeap visitor visa reguired for Moroccans), religious reasons (absolutely check on my part and his) or sexual orientation (once again check)). Thus, they could not live together for a period of at least one year.(exactly check)

In most cases, the foreign partner is also not able to legally marry their sponsor and qualify as a spouse(yeap check its illegal in Morocco). In all other respects, the couple is similar to a common-law couple or a married couple, meaning they have been in a bona fide (genuine) conjugal relationship (yeap check thats why I have him on my life insurance and have credit together and support him all the time) for a period of at least one year.

However, a significant degree of attachment (yeap have to see and talk to him pretty much daily if not I know where he is/his schedule and he knows I will call otherwise) and mutually interdependence between both partners must be demonstrated (In an interdependent relationship, participants may be emotionally, economically, ecologically and/or morally reliant on and responsible to each other...check on the emotionally and morally reliant for sure economically I would agree with as well but I do not understand ecologically so I am not sure if we apply to that. They must also provide proof of the obstacles or restrictions that prevent cohabitation or marriage.(yes check the law in Morocco prevents it)

So go through this definition and be sure it is for you as well. I am now in the appeal process apparently the IRB treat ppl a bit more fairly.
canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/all-spouse-appeal-cases-come-here-and-join-us-plz-t87619.0.html info about appeals here

Supreme Court Case - Google Search "IAD Conjugal" A PDF will be top link with some really good information starting Page 13

[59] Molodowich v. Penttinen (1980), 17 R.F.L. (2d) 376 (Ont. Dist. Ct.), sets out
the generally accepted characteristics of a conjugal relationship. They include
shared shelter, sexual and personal behaviour, services, social activities,
economic support and children, as well as the societal perception of the couple.
However, it was recognised that these elements may be present in varying degrees
and not all are necessary for the relationship to be found to be conjugal. While it
is true that there may not be any consensus as to the societal perception of samesex
couples, there is agreement that same-sex couples share many other
"conjugal" characteristics. In order to come within the definition, neither
opposite-sex couples nor same-sex couples are required to fit precisely the
traditional marital model to demonstrate that the relationship is "conjugal".
Also there is no rule that says family members must attend. But it is one of the clear reasons in support of a refusal.
To a visa officer, who sees no family came. They can accept that in some cases. But for some countries, a wedding has to be bigger and family of both sides attend because they are showing their support for your marriage. If there is none, they may take it as marriage is a secret, etc..
Please go read on here, you will see what many of us have gone thru.
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/all-spouse-appeal-cases-come-here-and-join-us-plz.87619/
Some visa officers are cruel. If your partner lived in America for instance, perhaps no problem. No interview, straight forward application. But with your country not accepting the lifestyle, the possibility of the file going back to visa office in Costa Rica, some.visa officers are from the country the visa office is in. Some are Canadian. What happens if your file comes on the desk of someone who believes a marriage should be a man and woman? You will be denied. Maybe you will get a visa officer who has no bias like this and accepts all.your proof. Just want.you to have all your bases covered.
My husband and I were refused. We appealed so to answer reasons of refusal. If we.just reapplied we could have been refused again as we couldn't change age gap. I'm 18 yrs older.than my husband. He's Muslim. I'm Catholic. We were told age, culture and religion differences. None of my family could come. A return flight to Morocco starts at about 1300. We had about 60 guests. I lived there after marriage for 6 mos, 4 mos, 3 mos, and 1 and half mos. 5 times I was there at the time.of interview. Which they stopped me.from going in. We got the crappiest time.of week. The last day, at 11:30. Right before lunch. My husband answer all questions. But this Canadian woman from Quebec had clearly decided a week or more before interview that she would say no. She put lies in her notes. Said I was married in Morocco before in a town I never heard of. Until I meet my sister in laws. Two were married. One in that town. It wasn't me. She said my husband didn't know how I pay for my tickets. He knows I work with developmentally delayed kids. Since 1993. We have skyped at my job for a few minutes here and there. He knows a couple of the verbal kids. My coworkers. He knows my family. Named them all. Also spoke on skype with them too. She laughed at my brothers names. I'm Métis he is Berber. We both indigenous to our countries with many similarities. Sorry. I just want to point out how these visa officers are. We were honest, had alot of proof, but this woman thought my husband didn't love me and was using me. Said he was poor and only married me to come to Canada to better his life by getting a job. Ppl get refused for less.
We waited 2 yrs for appeal date. They said we needed a full day. But we got offered a morning slot. We had 3 hours to prove our marriage genuine. All those reasons we had answered to. Just like court. Cross examining of me and my husband by phone. Intimate questions are also asked in original interview and at appeal. We won our appeal.in 2 hours. Now file.is at ottawa. And we.got asked to update forms, get new medical, and police check. We originally applied October 30, 2014. Am hoping he can have his visa by mid August. Sorry.for my bad typing. I'm on my phone.
If I think of anything else. I will add to this.

 

[scylla]

What if we want to do all the marriage in Canada? were not an out couple..and what is the downside to hiring a lawyer?
Lastly - I'm trying to save money - what if I dont have the financial resources to go to Argentina?

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand you want to hire a lawyer which is very expensive and not necessary. And on the other hand you say you don't have the financial resources to go to Argentina. This makes no sense.

You don't need a lawyer. Same sex couples are successful in the sponsorship process all of the time without a lawyer. Go to Argentina and get married. Then process the application without a lawyer. This is what willl give you the highest chance of being successful in being approved.

 

[Arceus]

Hi Guys thanks for the responses - I'm just wondering if my family is non-supportive of my relationship - how/why the heck would they attend the marriage registration ceremony? They are intolerant religious people - and I can't afford to fly his family there...can they attend via Skype or something?

I'm drawn to this quote from what Mary wrote:
"But this Canadian woman from Quebec had clearly decided a week or more before interview that she would say no. She put lies in her notes. Said I was married in Morocco before in a town I never heard of. Until I meet my sister in laws. Two were married. One in that town. It wasn't me. She said my husband didn't know how I pay for my tickets. He knows I work with developmentally delayed kids. Since 1993. We have skyped at my job for a few minutes here and there. He knows a couple of the verbal kids. My coworkers. He knows my family. Named them all. Also spoke on skype with them too. She laughed at my brothers names. I'm Métis he is Berber. We both indigenous to our countries with many similarities. Sorry. I just want to point out how these visa officers are. We were honest, had alot of proof, but this woman thought my husband didn't love me and was using me. Said he was poor and only married me to come to Canada to better his life by getting a job. Ppl get refused for less. "

Aren't lies of this fashion illegal?

 

[Classic Chucks]

Hi Guys thanks for the responses - I'm just wondering if my family is non-supportive of my relationship - how/why the heck would they attend the marriage registration ceremony? They are intolerant religious people - and I can't afford to fly his family there...can they attend via Skype or something?

Does not matter. You can provide an explanation for this. There are successful applicants whose family did not attend their wedding. You will just have to provide compelling proof that your relationship/marriage is genuine.

Sure, if there is a way for them to 'attend' the wedding, that would be a bonus - be it skype or whatnot.

 

[MaryL]

Seems like you have to make good decision. Two very senior members gave you good advice. Think of mine as some extra stuff to think about. I had skyped my Dad, sister and niece. We were ahead six hours. Not even sure the visa officer cared.
Perhaps if parents can't come maybe a sibling? Anyhow, work on getting gteat proof. Save money go get married. Go with what ppl are telling you.

 

[Arceus]

Hm thank you guys again - another thought occurs - is there a minimum amount of money I should have saved if his application is approved? I heard that if people have not enough money to sponsor (like $10,000) they will be denied even if their marriage is believed to be genuine?

 

[Classic Chucks]

Hm thank you guys again - another thought occurs - is there a minimum amount of money I should have saved if his application is approved? I heard that if people have not enough money to sponsor (like $10,000) they will be denied even if their marriage is believed to be genuine?

No.

 

[Arceus]

No.

Ok great - my friend said thats what her consultant told her

 

[starnaenae]

Ok great - my friend said thats what her consultant told her

Which is why consultants and lawyers are Not necessary in this process