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Am I still a PR?

ukcitizen7

Member
Jun 3, 2017
11
0
Hi experts.

I am a PR who has not lived in Canada for the last 5 years, so I appreciate I do not meet the residency obligations. However, I have been living in the UK with my Canadian born wife.

Does the fact we have been married and living together for that 5 years count as meeting the obligation?

I am looking to travel back to Canada with my wife for a 12 day visit and wonder if I apply for PR travel document rather than renouncing my status.

Kind regards
 

zardoz

VIP Member
Feb 2, 2013
13,298
2,167
Canada
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
16-02-2013
VISA ISSUED...
31-07-2013
LANDED..........
09-11-2013
You should be able to obtain a PRTD as long as you can prove the "accompanying a Canadian spouse" exemption applies to you. You are still a PR.
 
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ukcitizen7

Member
Jun 3, 2017
11
0
You should be able to obtain a PRTD as long as you can prove the "accompanying a Canadian spouse" exemption applies to you. You are still a PR.
Great news. I always assumed I would have to reapply should we choose to move back to Canada. This is a real shock!

So what your saying I can apply for this one off PRTD and visit, return to the UK at any point and if I ever want to return I just apply for a PRTD?

Is there benefit in me applying for a new PR card?
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,427
1,551
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
So what your saying I can apply for this one off PRTD and visit, return to the UK at any point and if I ever want to return I just apply for a PRTD?
Yes exactly.

Is there benefit in me applying for a new PR card?
You will not need to go through the cost/hassle of PR TD application each time you want to fly to Canada. Make sure you ask for a multi-entry PR TD when you apply.

You can only apply to renew your PR card when you're physically in Canada. Also you must give an address in Canada where you are residing. So if you leave Canada before your new PR card is ready, there may be difficulties to get it to you. Or IRCC may ask you to come pick it up in person at a local office.
 
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cempjwi

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2012
450
30
CANADA
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
App. Filed.......
31-Jul-12
Doc's Request.
09-Feb-13; Sent 13-Mar-13
AOR Received.
15-Oct-12; In-process 26-Mar-13
File Transfer...
15-Oct-12
Med's Request
02-Apr-13 Chest Xray Only
Med's Done....
14-May-12; 04-Apr-13 (Delivered 15-Apr-13)
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
19-Apr-2013
VISA ISSUED...
19-Apr-2013 (Rcvd May 15th, 2013)
LANDED..........
1-July-2013
7.5. Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada

R61(4) provides that each day a permanent resident is outside Canada accompanying (that is,ordinarily residing with) a Canadian citizen constitutes a day of physical presence in Canada,provided that the Canadian citizen they are accompanying is a spouse or common-law partner or parent. In the case of a permanent resident outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose. In other words, under A28(2)(a)(ii) and R61(4), as long as a permanent resident is accompanying a Canadian citizen, the intent and purpose of their absences are not relevant as the residency obligation is met.

Please not that while "who is accompanying who" and "for what purpose" are not necessary to be determined, this will apply to you as long as you left Canada with your Canadian spouse (though not necessarily together, but must be to follow each other). If your Canadian spouse was living in Canada at the time you became a PR and then both left, you should be ok. If your Canadian spouse was living in the UK, sponsored you under the promise to come back to Canada and didn't and you landed and left, this protection will not apply to you. If you became a PR on your own, left and then married your Canadian spouse in the UK, this protection will not apply to you either.
 

ukcitizen7

Member
Jun 3, 2017
11
0
. If you became a PR on your own, left and then married your Canadian spouse in the UK, this protection will not apply to you either.
Can you clear this part up? Here is our situation.

We met and dated since 1999. I was a PR before I met her at university.

We moved together to the UK in 2008 and have proof of living together etc. We married in the UK in May 2013.1
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,436
3,183
Can you clear this part up? Here is our situation.

We met and dated since 1999. I was a PR before I met her at university.

We moved together to the UK in 2008 and have proof of living together etc. We married in the UK in May 2013.
There is little known about the risk a visa office might consider who-accompanied-who. Generally, it is not an issue, not taken into consideration.

cempjwi's caution, however, is warranted in some situations. Difficulty is in discerning which situations, discerning who might actually have some risk in this regard.

The risk in your situation is that using a marriage certificate as proof of your relationship may very well make the wrong impression, suggesting you, the PR, were living abroad before the beginning of the relationship.

While how much risk is difficult and perhaps impossible to forecast, perhaps submitting proof of cohabitation sufficient to show a common-law relationship prior to the marriage, perhaps prior to the move to the UK as well, together with a brief explanation, would minimize or eliminate the risk. Given how long it has been, a letter from your spouse affirming cohabitation since xx date and identifying address history (addresses at which you have resided together), should suffice (it is not likely the visa office is going to go looking for reasons justifying termination your PR status in your situation). That is, in addition to submitting the marriage certificate, also submit explanation and some proof of being common-law prior to marriage, per what the actual facts were of course.

There are alternative options even if this runs into problems (including ultimately losing PR and being a visa-exempt visitor unless and until a move to Canada is planned, and then being sponsored for spouse-sponsored PR). Indeed, there is the option of avoiding a PR TD application by traveling via the U.S., and especially if you are traveling together you might want to consider this, traveling by air to the U.S. and using ground transportation from a city near the Canadian border to travel to Canada. Odds of a problem at the PoE are low if you are together, and explain you are married and living together in the UK (going into more detail IF questioned further, but that seems unlikely).

Given this background, I am not sure it would be a good idea to affirmatively request a multiple-use PR TD. A straight-forward PR TD application, with proof of marriage and some documentation of common-law status prior to marriage, seems less likely to invite a focus on the question about whether you were living abroad prior to being in a spousal relationship. There have been reports that PRs living abroad with Canadian citizen spouse have been issued a multiple-use, multiple-year PR TD without specifically requesting this. There have also been reports that PRs in this situation have been issued only a single-use PR TD despite request for multiple-use PR TD.

Technically you should have NO problem. And, indeed, if your relationship was common-law beginning before the move to the UK, almost for sure no problem (of course the PR needs to submit proof of the relationship, proof of spouse's Canadian citizenship, and spouse's address history showing living together). If your relationship was a marriage that began prior to the move to the UK, no problem. It is the impression the marriage date might make which invites some pause.
 
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ukcitizen7

Member
Jun 3, 2017
11
0
I really appreciate the amount of effort you have put into your very thorough reply.

We have payslips showing we lived in the same address since our move to the UK in 2008. We also have university degrees and high school diplomas showing we studied together.

Fingers crossed!
 

cempjwi

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2012
450
30
CANADA
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
App. Filed.......
31-Jul-12
Doc's Request.
09-Feb-13; Sent 13-Mar-13
AOR Received.
15-Oct-12; In-process 26-Mar-13
File Transfer...
15-Oct-12
Med's Request
02-Apr-13 Chest Xray Only
Med's Done....
14-May-12; 04-Apr-13 (Delivered 15-Apr-13)
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
19-Apr-2013
VISA ISSUED...
19-Apr-2013 (Rcvd May 15th, 2013)
LANDED..........
1-July-2013
Can you clear this part up? Here is our situation.

We met and dated since 1999. I was a PR before I met her at university.

We moved together to the UK in 2008 and have proof of living together etc. We married in the UK in May 2013.1
What I meant by "If you became a PR on your own, left and then married your Canadian spouse in the UK, this protection will not apply to you either" was to imply you met your future spouse in the UK, after you left Canada on your own (that is, common-law did not exist before you left Canada).

As dpenabill explained, your best route is to prove common-law in Canada before you left, continuing on with the actual marriage and its ongoing status (you will need to prove the marriage still exists, at least to the point where you meet the residency obligation). Your marriage alone will not protect you because it was performed after you left Canada. Common-law has a period of one year minimum, so you don't have to provide proof from 1999 onward, but at least one year (plus buffer, I'd recommend) before the date you left for the UK.

You mentioned "dated" and then "moved together" to the UK. Common-law will only apply if you were living together (cohabiting) before you left Canada.

Please note that while your situation may allow you to continue being a PR of Canada, it would not apply for citizenship unless your common-law partner/spouse is/was/has been employed outside of Canada in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, the public service of Canada, or the public service of a province or territory, but not as a locally engaged staff (the latter means hired by or for the Canadian government locally).

You may benefit by reading this: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/grant/residence/calculate/spouse.asp