Entering Canada by land with expired PR card - RO not met

[mgadi]

Hi experts,

I am now in a predicament and looking for a good suggestion from you guys.

We currently live in Abu Dhabi. After becoming PR, we lived in Canada for few months and moved to Abu Dhabi. Our PR cards expired and we did not meet Residency Obligation in the last five years. I applied for Travel Document in Abu Dhabi few months ago. They refused TD for my wife and me but approved for the children.

My second daughter got admission in a university in Canada and we really want to move back to Canada for good.

Now my questions are:

1. Can we enter Canada by land with US visitor visa(we have US visas) and expired PR card? My citizen friend will pick me up from buffalo airport and we will cross the border in his car.
2. Can CBSA deny my entry to Canada at the border?
3. What are the risk factors at the border?
4. Is it better not take risk coming by land and appeal the TD rejection on H&C grounds?

Please suggest the best course of action. Thank you.

 

[Ponga]

Hi experts,

I am now in a predicament and looking for a good suggestion from you guys.

We currently live in Abu Dhabi. After becoming PR, we lived in Canada for few months and moved to Abu Dhabi. Our PR cards expired and we did not meet Residency Obligation in the last five years. I applied for Travel Document in Abu Dhabi few months ago. They refused TD for my wife and me but approved for the children.

My second daughter got admission in a university in Canada and we really want to move back to Canada for good.

Now my questions are:

1. Can we enter Canada by land with US visitor visa(we have US visas) and expired PR card? My citizen friend will pick me up from buffalo airport and we will cross the border in his car.
2. Can CBSA deny my entry to Canada at the border?
3. What are the risk factors at the border?
4. Is it better not take risk coming by land and appeal the TD rejection on H&C grounds?

Please suggest the best course of action. Thank you.

1. Yes

2. Even with an expired PRC, you still have the right to enter Canada. I would, however, be prepared for the officer to inform you that you are being reported to CIC for non-compliance. This will not prevent the officer from allowing you to re-enter Canada, but...you'll probably lose your PR status after a hearing at a later date.

3. See #2

4. Not sure. Perhaps someone will educate us both.
(I suspect not, unless you have a solid case for H&C).

Good luck!

 

[torontosm]

4. Is it better not take risk coming by land and appeal the TD rejection on H&C grounds?

Do you have any real H&C grounds to appeal it on? If you were in Abu Dhabi for a job, that will not count as H&C.

 

[Rob_TO]

We currently live in Abu Dhabi. After becoming PR, we lived in Canada for few months and moved to Abu Dhabi. Our PR cards expired and we did not meet Residency Obligation in the last five years. I applied for Travel Document in Abu Dhabi few months ago. They refused TD for my wife and me but approved for the children.

Usually with the rejection of a PR TD for not meeting RO, CIC also starts process to revoke your PR. You may get this info soon that your PR is being revoked, and you would need to appeal to keep it.

Or as mentioned, when crossing border into Canada there's a good chance you'll be reported there also for not meeting RO.

Of course even with expired PR card, you can always enter Canada by land even if you don't meet RO. A likely scenario though is that you and your wife's PR will eventually be revoked either now or in a few years if you choose to appeal and lose (since you don't have any real H&C reasons). If this happens your daughter can certainly stay in university in Canada by herself as a PR, but you and your wife would probably need to move back to your home country.

 

[dpenabill]

I applied for Travel Document in Abu Dhabi few months ago. They refused TD for my wife and me . . .

. . . Is it better not take risk coming by land and appeal the TD rejection on H&C grounds?

CAUTION. You must appeal to keep PR status.

PR status is lost unless an appeal is timely made.

You have been denied a PR TD. Thus, a Residency Determination has been made. IRCC has already made the decision to terminate PR status. Your only recourse now is to appeal.

This is a done deal, PR status gone, unless an appeal is timely made.

And then the appeal has to be won. Obviously on H&C grounds.

Thus, if there is no appeal of the denied PR TD, PR status is lost.

Yeah, I have repeated myself. For emphasis.

1. Yes

2. Even with an expired PRC, you still have the right to enter Canada. I would, however, be prepared for the officer to inform you that you are being reported to CIC for non-compliance. This will not prevent the officer from allowing you to re-enter Canada, but...you'll probably lose your PR status after a hearing at a later date.

3. See #2

4. Not sure. Perhaps someone will educate us both.
(I suspect not, unless you have a solid case for H&C).

If there is no appeal, no, the husband and wife will not be allowed to enter Canada. Well, if they arrive at a PoE before the date by which the appeal must be made, and insist they will be making an appeal, then they should be allowed to enter. There will be no additional report necessary at that time, given that the PR TD application was already denied and PR status will be terminated unless a successful appeal is made.

Usually with the rejection of a PR TD for not meeting RO, CIC also starts process to revoke your PR. You may get this info soon that your PR is being revoked, and you would need to appeal to keep it.

There is no need for IRCC to start the process to revoke PR status when a PR's application for a PR TD is denied, since that is itself an adjudication of status, including a Residency Determination. A denied PR TD constitutes the revocation of PR status unless there is an appeal.

Of course even with expired PR card, you can always enter Canada by land even if you don't meet RO.

They can enter Canada only if an appeal is timely made, or I suppose, again, if they show up at the PoE before the date by which an appeal must be made and affirm they are making an appeal.

Bottom-line: getting to and into Canada in-itself will accomplish nothing. PR status will be lost unless there is a successful appeal.


Getting into Canada with an appeal . . .

If an appeal is timely made:

If there is an appeal of the denied PR TD, you continue to have PR status pending the outcome of the appeal. If you have been in Canada within the previous year, after making the appeal you can apply for and likely obtain a special PR TD to come to Canada and remain while the appeal is pending. Otherwise, if you can travel via the U.S. and get to a PoE on the U.S./Canada border, you will be allowed to enter Canada.

Appeals take at least many months, and can take a year or two or even longer. Pending the appeal, you retain PR status.

H&C cases are very difficult to successfully make. But a cursory dismissal of prospects for an H&C case is not warranted either. Choosing to work abroad is not necessarily fatal to making a H&C case.

If you think you might have any semblance of an H&C case, and you want to retain PR status, and you can afford it, then:

Appeal. Get to Canada. See a lawyer, a good lawyer. Maybe see two lawyers and compare what they have to say. Do not bother with free consultations (you get what you pay for).

Status of your children is separate from yours. They will need to come and stay in Canada, however, to retain their PR status.

 

[mgadi]

Excellent replies given by all. I appreciate your depth of knowledge on the subject. Now I think it is better to appeal and try the Buffalo route. Thank you very much.

 

[Rob_TO]

There is no need for IRCC to start the process to revoke PR status when a PR's application for a PR TD is denied, since that is itself an adjudication of status, including a Residency Determination. A denied PR TD constitutes the revocation of PR status unless there is an appeal.


They can enter Canada only if an appeal is timely made, or I suppose, again, if they show up at the PoE before the date by which an appeal must be made and affirm they are making an appeal.

Shouldn't this information and instructions on how to appeal, be included then with the PR TD denial notice the OP received?

 

[dpenabill]

Shouldn't this information and instructions on how to appeal, be included then with the PR TD denial notice the OP received?

Yes.

 

[dpenabill]

A more complete answer, regarding what the letter denying the PR TD should state, even though just "yes" covers it:

Yes there should be information about why the application was denied, how to appeal, and that status is lost if there is no appeal.

Note, however, the effect denying the application for a PR Travel Document has is simply a matter of law; loss of status is an operation of law based on the decision. See section 46(1)(b) in IRPA. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-10.html#h-27

If the PR timely appeals, the decision by the officer outside Canada is not "final." If the PR eventually wins the appeal, or the outside officer's decision is otherwise set aside, PR status is retained. If the PR loses the appeal, that renders the outside officer's determination final and PR status is lost.

If the denial is not appealed timely, when the time for making the appeal has passed the determination by the officer outside Canada is then "final." PR status is lost.

For details about the procedure, see sections 12 and 16 in Operational Manual OP 10 "Permanent Residency Status Determination."
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf

The refusal needs to state reasons for the refusal and a sample form is part of the OP 10 (see appendix A).

As to the consequences of the decision, the form states:

"A person loses permanent resident status only on a final determination of a decision made outside of Canada that the person has failed to comply with the residency obligation under section 28 of the Act. The appeal provisions under subsection 63(4) provide a permanent resident the right to appeal to the Immigration Appeal Division of the Immigration and Refugee Board against a decision made outside of Canada on the residency obligation under section 28 of the Act."

It also states:

"Should you choose not to submit an appeal of this decision to the Immigration Appeal Division in Canada, this decision concerning your non-compliance with the residency obligation under section 28 of the Act will become a final determination of your residency status. You will be inadmissible to Canada as a permanent resident for failing to comply with section 28. You will be considered to have lost your status as a permanent resident of Canada, in accordance with paragraph 46(1)(b). You will not be allowed to enter Canada as a permanent resident, in accordance with subsection 19(2)."

As is too typical of so many notifications from IRCC, this one tends to be long, full of boilerplate, lots of generic information, and information not necessarily related to the individual himself or herself, and thus the more important parts can easily be overlooked if not carefully examined and assessed.

 

[Rob_TO]

Yes.

Based on the OPs initial post, it seemed they simply got a denial of PR TD and not any notice about PR being revoked or how to appeal it. Or, they didn't read the correspondence from the visa office all the way though.

 

[smsmsm]

Hi experts,

I am now in a predicament and looking for a good suggestion from you guys.

We currently live in Abu Dhabi. After becoming PR, we lived in Canada for few months and moved to Abu Dhabi. Our PR cards expired and we did not meet Residency Obligation in the last five years. I applied for Travel Document in Abu Dhabi few months ago. They refused TD for my wife and me but approved for the children.

My second daughter got admission in a university in Canada and we really want to move back to Canada for good.

Now my questions are:

1. Can we enter Canada by land with US visitor visa(we have US visas) and expired PR card? My citizen friend will pick me up from buffalo airport and we will cross the border in his car.
2. Can CBSA deny my entry to Canada at the border?
3. What are the risk factors at the border?
4. Is it better not take risk coming by land and appeal the TD rejection on H&C grounds?

Please suggest the best course of action. Thank you.

hi Magdy,
did u find a way? I am in the same position ?

 

[torontosm]

Hello Seniors and all members,

Just to share my experience with everyone, since I learned a lot from this forum.
I was at the same situation, with only 3 months left for my PR expiry, managed to enter through Toronto airport without any question asked.
I want to highlight, one thing that the Automatic check machine did not accepted to scan my passport, after trying 3 times>
The machine displayed a message saying that this is not PR, Canadian or US passport> little Adrenalin shocked me up , as I thought will be directed to a manual check in with officer!!!! ( the reason it was a new passport not the one used for landing).

Then I decided to try with my PR card, then It worked 100%, then the machine asked to scan the Custom declaration paper, It quickly return a scanned copy to me.
I was checked 3 times, 1 time at the end of the ACM (Automatic check machine), and 2nd time at the way out of CBA external gate.
and the last time, from the custom agent who collect the scanned receipt. all of the them never said anything or asked anything.
Once they will see your PR, and receipt> they will let in go...as simple as this.

So I want to encourage all PR in similar situation, not to panic and worry, just do it, you will be fine, try to arrive at the flights coming at the afternoon between (14 & 17 pm) as these seems as airport busiest hours, and the more passenger the less focus from the agents.
( will duplicate this post over all related RO Issues) for the sake of others PR in same situation.

Your situation is very different than the OP's in that: (i) your PR card had not expired; and (ii) you had not applied and been refused a PRTD.

 

[smsmsm]

Dear all valued members,

Can u plz help me to find a way to my problem, i landed in Canada and this is my story:

1- i landed in 9/2010 (I was married but I landed myself only, no kids) and stayed for a week only, I got SSN card and my driving license (G2, expired now) & TD visa card (expired now), I didn’t apply for health card.

2- then i left back to UAE after 1 week in Canada (I got divorced in the same month after coming back from Canada)

3- i was planning to come back to Canada before 9/2013 in order to meet RR, but i found it is very hard to find a job there, so I didn’t travel.

4- i didn't receive my initial PR card due to photo issue and i was planning to solve it if I would had come in 9/2013, also I lost my “confirmation of landing paper”, but I have a copy it.

5- i have USA visa, i have been traveling all over in the past yrs due to work.

Now, is there any way to solve that matter that I didn’t meet my RR obligations? I am afraid to apply for Travel doc. as they will see that I didn’t meet RR obligations and all H&C reason I have is that I was financially responsible for members of my family & I couldn’t find a job in Canada by applying online after I my landing & I couldn’t quit my job in UAE due to my family responsibilities.

If I managed to get PRTD (95% chance it will be refused for not meeting RR obligation) and went to Canada now, I am sure 95% that I will be reported by the officer in airport, then I will be stuck in Canada for 2 or more years waiting for my case to be finalized yes or no, isn’t? also, I think it will be hard to get driving license (I can’t renew my expired G2, I have to apply again and I don’t have original confirmation of landing paper, also I think I can’t renew my TD visa for the same reason, isn’t?

Plz help me if u can, thanks & sorry for this long problem.

 

[Rob_TO]

Now, is there any way to solve that matter that I didn’t meet my RR obligations? I am afraid to apply for Travel doc. as they will see that I didn’t meet RR obligations and all H&C reason I have is that I was financially responsible for members of my family & I couldn’t find a job in Canada by applying online after I my landing & I couldn’t quit my job in UAE due to my family responsibilities.

This is generally NOT considered a valid H&C reason.

If I managed to get PRTD (95% chance it will be refused for not meeting RR obligation) and went to Canada now, I am sure 95% that I will be reported by the officer in airport, then I will be stuck in Canada for 2 or more years waiting for my case to be finalized yes or no, isn’t?

If you apply for a PR TD, most likely it will be rejected which will automatically start process to revoke your PR status.

If you somehow got a PR TD on H&C reasons (very unlikely), then you could return to Canada without fear of being reported, and immediately apply for new PR card.

If you skip the PR TD process you can attempt to enter Canada by land via USA border.
If reported by CBSA, again this will start process to revoke PR status.
If not reported, you can then stay in Canada 2 straight years without leaving to come back into compliance with the RO and renew PR card. However as you mentioned, it may be difficult to live here 2 years with no PR card or original COPR.

If you're reported or are rejected for PR TD, you can appeal. However since you don't have a valid H&C reason, most likely outcome is your appeal will also be rejected and you'll just lose your PR status a few years later and be asked to leave Canada if you're here waiting for the appeal.

 

[smsmsm]

This is generally NOT considered a valid H&C reason.



If you apply for a PR TD, most likely it will be rejected which will automatically start process to revoke your PR status.

If you somehow got a PR TD on H&C reasons (very unlikely), then you could return to Canada without fear of being reported, and immediately apply for new PR card.

If you skip the PR TD process you can attempt to enter Canada by land via USA border.
If reported by CBSA, again this will start process to revoke PR status.
If not reported, you can then stay in Canada 2 straight years without leaving to come back into compliance with the RO and renew PR card. However as you mentioned, it may be difficult to live here 2 years with no PR card or original COPR.

If you're reported or are rejected for PR TD, you can appeal. However since you don't have a valid H&C reason, most likely outcome is your appeal will also be rejected and you'll just lose your PR status a few years later and be asked to leave Canada if you're here waiting for the appeal.