Concerned about how closely CIC examines job duties for NOCs

[hrc7777]

I had three different jobs and total 4 years of work experience. my noc is 2133 electrical and electronics engineers.

My longest work exp. (3 years) matches about 60% of duties listed in my NOC,,my 2nd job was very unique,it was very unique environment for engineers so duties and exact words are not matching NOC description,,,,my 3rd job matches my NOC description almost 50%,,,,,my concern is,,,does CIC understand that engineers often don't have fixed duties and it is a very vast field,,,,or they just stick to a few lines in the description and reject the application because it doesn't match their template? Appreciate your feedback. Thanks in advance.

 

[Asivad Anac]

I had three different jobs and total 4 years of work experience. my noc is 2133 electrical and electronics engineers.

My longest work exp. (3 years) matches about 60% of duties listed in my NOC,,my 2nd job was very unique,it was very unique environment for engineers so duties and exact words are not matching NOC description,,,,my 3rd job matches my NOC description almost 50%,,,,,my concern is,,,does CIC understand that engineers often don't have fixed duties and it is a very vast field,,,,or they just stick to a few lines in the description and reject the application because it doesn't match their template? Appreciate your feedback. Thanks in advance.

Try and get a more than 60% correspondence between NOC duties and job responsibilities. And if you want to highlight any specific areas, you can always use the LOE (letter of explanation). Try and negotiate with your employer(s) to write a few responsibilities differently, tweaked in order to ensure better correlation with NOC duties.

Officers at CIC are trained to not mechanically scan your application and use their judgment but you have to give your application a fighting chance and 50% match just doesn't make the cut because they are looking for 'majority' match.

 

[reslanw]

Hello Asivad Anac,

Thank you for all the help you provide on this forum.

I already submitted my PR application, and now having concerns regarding work history letters.
None of my letters specifies number of hours worked per week because that is simply not regarded here in the Middle East (I attached a LOE for this).
I have 10 years of work experience in different positions and I have letters from all previous employers (5).
Unfortunately, not all the letters include the information as requested. Dates and positions are clearly mentioned on all but for example salary is not because certain companies view this information as confidential and would not share it.
Not all letters also include detailed roles and responsibilities, because for example the responsibilities of a software developer are quite obvious.

Would CIC officers disregard a 10 year work history if they simply don't see the word "Full-Time" or "Permanent" on a reference letter ?
Would they reject a reference letter if it doesn't show a phone number but has only an email address or a website ? Are they going by the book here or is there a more logical approach when it comes to assessing profiles ?

Thanks

 

[OmarSarfraz]

Hello Asivad Anac,

Thank you for all the help you provide on this forum.

I already submitted my PR application, and now having concerns regarding work history letters.
None of my letters specifies number of hours worked per week because that is simply not regarded here in the Middle East (I attached a LOE for this).
I have 10 years of work experience in different positions and I have letters from all previous employers (5).
Unfortunately, not all the letters include the information as requested. Dates and positions are clearly mentioned on all but for example salary is not because certain companies view this information as confidential and would not share it.
Not all letters also include detailed roles and responsibilities, because for example the responsibilities of a software developer are quite obvious.

Would CIC officers disregard a 10 year work history if they simply don't see the word "Full-Time" or "Permanent" on a reference letter ?
Would they reject a reference letter if it doesn't show a phone number but has only an email address or a website ? Are they going by the book here or is there a more logical approach when it comes to assessing profiles ?

Thanks

Which Middle East country are you in? You could have also attached your employment contract in case your reference letter does not give enough info!

 

[Asivad Anac]

Hello Asivad Anac,

Thank you for all the help you provide on this forum.

I already submitted my PR application, and now having concerns regarding work history letters.
None of my letters specifies number of hours worked per week because that is simply not regarded here in the Middle East (I attached a LOE for this).
I have 10 years of work experience in different positions and I have letters from all previous employers (5).
Unfortunately, not all the letters include the information as requested. Dates and positions are clearly mentioned on all but for example salary is not because certain companies view this information as confidential and would not share it.
Not all letters also include detailed roles and responsibilities, because for example the responsibilities of a software developer are quite obvious.

Would CIC officers disregard a 10 year work history if they simply don't see the word "Full-Time" or "Permanent" on a reference letter ?
Would they reject a reference letter if it doesn't show a phone number but has only an email address or a website ? Are they going by the book here or is there a more logical approach when it comes to assessing profiles ?

Thanks

The most important part of a reference letter is the detailing of roles & responsibilities - that is critical because that determines the NOC. And you get program eligibility points for that. In addition to that, it is important to have the letter mention full-time position (permanent is a requirement only for LMIA supported jobs) because CIC calculates experience differently for part-time. Even if the letter doesn't explicitly mention full-time or hours/week, there is a possibility that the officer doesn't enforce that requirement very strictly.

CIC won't reject a reference letter if it doesn't explicitly show contact details but that will definitely look more shady than a reference letter on an official letterhead.

Each of their requirements has a purpose.

1. Roles & Responsibilities, job title - to connect your job with a specific NOC.

2. Working hours/week - to confirm this was a full-time or part-time position.

3. Salary details - to confirm this was a paid gig.

4. Letterhead, Organization details, Name/signature of supervisor - to confirm authenticity of the experience.

5. Job status, dates worked for the company - to allot you accurate points for program eligibility and CRS

Hope that clarifies. All the best!

 

[reslanw]

@ OmarSarfraz

Lebanon and Saudi Arabia. I only have a contract for 1 job out of the 5.
We take things less lightly here than in Canada

@ Asivad Anac

Thank you for your clarification. I guess I should get started on contacting my previous employers for reference letters and be ready to apply again

 

[parikan]

Hi, first of all I would like to personally thank you Asivad Anac because you posts are always very instructive

I am a bit concerned about my NOC situation as well, and I would really appreciate your opinion, or anyone who could answer.

When I applied for my work permit last year, I had to submit a letter from my company with my role and duties. I also asked my HR manager what NOC code would correspond to my job.
The NOC code he provided me with didnt seem to match with the description of the NOC from the government's catalog so I asked our HR manager he was 100% sure of giving me the correct NOC code. His reply was: "well, that's how we mapped it in the company"

Yet, the work permit was approved by the Canadian embassy from my country of origin and I have been working at that company for more than a year (this experience is the keystone of my PR application)

Now, I am about to submit my application for PR and I am extremely worried about this discrepancy between my job duties and NOC code.

What do you guys think?

please note I am posting here because it seems relevant to the discussion, my intention is not to hijack the topic

 

[Asivad Anac]

Hi, first of all I would like to personally thank you Asivad Anac because you posts are always very instructive

I am a bit concerned about my NOC situation as well, and I would really appreciate your opinion, or anyone who could answer.

When I applied for my work permit last year, I had to submit a letter from my company with my role and duties. I also asked my HR manager what NOC code would correspond to my job.
The NOC code he provided me with didnt seem to match with the description of the NOC from the government's catalog so I asked our HR manager he was 100% sure of giving me the correct NOC code. His reply was: "well, that's how we mapped it in the company"

Yet, the work permit was approved by the Canadian embassy from my country of origin and I have been working at that company for more than a year (this experience is the keystone of my PR application)

Now, I am about to submit my application for PR and I am extremely worried about this discrepancy between my job duties and NOC code.

What do you guys think?

please note I am posting here because it seems relevant to the discussion, my intention is not to hijack the topic

I imagine if that letter from your HR worked once, there is no reason it wouldn't work again. If possible, get a confirmation mail from HR that this is how they map NOCs in your organization. That should suffice.

All the best!

 

[affan_123]

I had three different jobs and total 4 years of work experience. my noc is 2133 electrical and electronics engineers.

My longest work exp. (3 years) matches about 60% of duties listed in my NOC,,my 2nd job was very unique,it was very unique environment for engineers so duties and exact words are not matching NOC description,,,,my 3rd job matches my NOC description almost 50%,,,,,my concern is,,,does CIC understand that engineers often don't have fixed duties and it is a very vast field,,,,or they just stick to a few lines in the description and reject the application because it doesn't match their template? Appreciate your feedback. Thanks in advance.

CIC mentions "Some or all" which means CIC understands that not all duties will match accurately with the letter you provide. For instance, HRSD says: " Preperation of long and short term cash flows" now this depends on company's structure business dealings that they really require long term cash flows to be prepared? If i only write "preperation of Cash flows" will justify my responsibility as per CIC requirement. Keyword for CIC is "Cash flow" you prepare it and you are done to qualify for this particular responsibility, it doesnt require long and short term. Similarly, for other NOC's it serves the same purpose and keywords should matches as per HRSD mentioned responsibilities.

Secondly, their template is important as they say " A reference letter should" so it should be on a company letter head and meet cic requirement.

Hope this anwers your question

 

[affan_123]

If a person completed his masters in marketing and perform duties in finance, he/she wont able to claim points for the Finance NOC? No, thats not the case. HRDC mentions "A bachelor's degree in commerce, business administration or economics and On-the-job training and industry courses and programs are usually required". Business administration does not specifically point out to any specialization. Marketing/supply chain/finance all falls in business administration. In a nutshell, your education and working experience has separate points that you claim. The word "Should" is inappropriate but "preferred" is the right word.

 

[Asivad Anac]

If a person completed his masters in marketing and perform duties in finance, he/she wont able to claim points for the Finance NOC? No, thats not the case. HRDC mentions "A bachelor's degree in commerce, business administration or economics and On-the-job training and industry courses and programs are usually required". Business administration does not specifically point out to any specialization. Marketing/supply chain/finance all falls in business administration. In a nutshell, your education and working experience has separate points that you claim. The word "Should" is inappropriate but "preferred" is the right word.

Completely agree.

For the most part, educational requirements for doing a job in a particular NOC are recommended and not mandatory.

 

[parikan]

Thank you

 

[hrc7777]

Dear All,
Thanks a lot for your valuable insights.

 

[dhruvmehtani]

Hello Asivad Anac,

Thank you for all the help you provide on this forum.

I already submitted my PR application, and now having concerns regarding work history letters.
None of my letters specifies number of hours worked per week because that is simply not regarded here in the Middle East (I attached a LOE for this).
I have 10 years of work experience in different positions and I have letters from all previous employers (5).
Unfortunately, not all the letters include the information as requested. Dates and positions are clearly mentioned on all but for example salary is not because certain companies view this information as confidential and would not share it.
Not all letters also include detailed roles and responsibilities, because for example the responsibilities of a software developer are quite obvious.

Would CIC officers disregard a 10 year work history if they simply don't see the word "Full-Time" or "Permanent" on a reference letter ?
Would they reject a reference letter if it doesn't show a phone number but has only an email address or a website ? Are they going by the book here or is there a more logical approach when it comes to assessing profiles ?

Thanks

Hi Asivad,

For example, if there are 4 responsibilities assigned in the LOR and there are 8 responsibilities assigned in the NOC classification, and all 4 responsibilities match the 8 in NOC. What will happen then?

 

[NMS@]

Try and get a more than 60% correspondence between NOC duties and job responsibilities. And if you want to highlight any specific areas, you can always use the LOE (letter of explanation). Try and negotiate with your employer(s) to write a few responsibilities differently, tweaked in order to ensure better correlation with NOC duties.

Officers at CIC are trained to not mechanically scan your application and use their judgment but you have to give your application a fighting chance and 50% match just doesn't make the cut because they are looking for 'majority' match.

@Asivad Anac

Hi,I please help me here.

I worked for two offices. The first one for 11 months and current one for 2years &1 month. That makes it 3 years in total.

My employment letter from first job states only 3 points under duties and responsibilities. However, the NOC I claimed for states a total of 7 points. So, its less than 50 percent match.

I cannot claim anymore duties from that list. I am an architect and used 2151 code. There is no other possible NOC code for me also. They have written a line in the NOC code before coming to the duties saying- " An Architect performs some or all of the following duties".

What can be done other than requesting my ex-boss to add points? He is a really mean person and no matter what happens, he won't help me. This job's duration was 11 months only.