NOC 4012 Research Assistant

[applefun]

Hello,

If I am a PhD student as a research assistant NOC 4012, can I apply for the Federal skilled worker program using this experience? Does it count as work experience?

Anyone having this issue, could you please advice?

Thanks!

 

[tymix]

NO, it doesn't count as work experience

 

[f1ahmed]

Hello,

If I am a PhD student as a research assistant NOC 4012, can I apply for the Federal skilled worker program using this experience? Does it count as work experience?

Anyone having this issue, could you please advice?

Thanks!

You can apply in EE ONLY if you have 1 year or more foreign experience. You RA/TA is not considered as Canadian experience because you are here on Study permit, not work permit.

 

[kateg]

Was the work experience paid?

For CEC, they exclude work as a student:

Self-employment and work experience gained while you were a full-time student (for example, on a co-op work term) does not count under this program.

For FSW, they do not:

at least one year (1,560 hours total / 30 hours per week), continuous full-time or an equal amount in part-time,
paid work (volunteer work, unpaid internships do not count),
in the same NOC skill type (0, A or B) ,
within the last 10 years, and
at skill type 0, or skill levels A or B of the 2011 National Occupational Classification (NOC).

 

[kateg]

You can apply in EE ONLY if you have 1 year or more foreign experience. You RA/TA is not considered as Canadian experience because you are here on Study permit, not work permit.

That is incorrect.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/criteria-crs.asp

To get into the Express Entry pool, skilled foreign nationals will need to meet the criteria of one of the federal immigration programs subject to Express Entry:

the Federal Skilled Worker Program (FSWP),
the Federal Skilled Trades Program (FSTP), or
the Canadian Experience Class (CEC).

CEC requires Canadian work experience (which excludes time spent studying). FSW requires work experience (but does not require it be outside the country). It's more difficult to qualify for FSW (due to the points requirements), but it's certainly doable.

 

[f1ahmed]

That is incorrect.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/criteria-crs.asp

CEC requires Canadian work experience (which excludes time spent studying). FSW requires work experience (but does not require it be outside the country). It's more difficult to qualify for FSW (due to the points requirements), but it's certainly doable.

@ Kateg:

Instead of just copying from CIC website, could you please put some explanation with your own words for this person?

Do you have clear idea about RA/TA? RA/TA are paid position and they get paid by their supervisor/university. But this experience is not considered as work experience because they are on study permit. Try to open a profile with your RA/TA experience and let me know if the system allows you.

"You can apply in EE ONLY if you have 1 year or more foreign experience"- why this is incorrect for this person? This person does not have any Canadian experience thus s/he need at least 1 year foreign experience to qualify in EE, right? do you think this person can open a profile with their RA/TA experience?

I am helping you with one information: RA/TA's receive T4 also. now, please advise this person if s/he can open a profile with RA/TA if s/he does not have any foreign experience at least for 1 year? thank you.

 

[kateg]

@ Kateg:

Instead of just copying from CIC website, could you please put some explanation with your own words for this person?

My words are those of a random person on the internet. CIC's words are the ones that matter.

Do you have clear idea about RA/TA? RA/TA are paid position and they get paid by their supervisor/university. But this experience is not considered as work experience because they are on study permit. Try to open a profile with your RA/TA experience and let me know if the system allows you.

My wife currently holds an ITA for her RA/TA experience. That is the NOC our application is under. I'm 2174 and waiting on a LMIA (which is a whole separate issue). Plan A, Plan B.

"You can apply in EE ONLY if you have 1 year or more foreign experience"- why this is incorrect for this person? This person does not have any Canadian experience thus s/he need at least 1 year foreign experience to qualify in EE, right? do you think this person can open a profile with their RA/TA experience?

Ok, let me make this simple:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=855&t=6

Can I count my work as a teaching assistant toward the work experience requirement?

You may be able to count experience as a teaching, research or lab assistant at a post-secondary educational institution, (see National Occupation Classification 4012) toward the work experience requirement, depending on the eligibility criteria of the programs.

CIC has a FAQ specifically for this question. My answer was consistent with that page.

Yes, if the position was paid, then there is the possibility of Express Entry. If it was not, then there is not. There are some unpaid Graduate Assistant positions, which is why CIC (and I) bring up whether or not it's paid. CIC will assess the experience against the NOC requirements.

 

[f1ahmed]

Let's make it much more simple:

If applefun does not have work permit, if applefun is doing his/her RA/TA based on a study permit, s/he will not qualify for CEC for his/her RA/TA, no matter it is paid/ unpaid- do you agree?

If applefun has any foreign experience (at least 1 year according to CIC definition), s/he will qualify for FSW. Make sense?

By the way, my wife completed her 2 years of PhD and in her 3rd year She also has her profile open with 401 points and eligible only for FSW, not CEC. She is paid RA/TA, receiving T4, filing tax every year.

When you will try to show your RA/TA experience as work experience, system asks if you have a valid work permit. But a RA/TA does not have that. EE does not give any points for RA/TA if it is based on study permit and will make your profile ineligible if you don't have any foreign experience.

Hope it will help applefun. But applefun, you can sure try to open a profile with your RA/TA experience. there is no harm. But remember one thing, your university will never be able to issue you the employment reference letter stating your exact work hours. i am telling all these based on our experience.

There is one type of RA who comes to Canada based on work permit under some university collaboration project. In that case only, you can show you experience under NOC 4012 as work experience.

There was a different stream for international PhD students before 1st January, 2015. CIC has discontinued that special program. We applied last year under that category but we were late by 7 days. They have returned all application reached there after 1st December 2014 as the CAP of 500 applicants was reached.

 

[kateg]

Let's make it much more simple:

If applefun does not have work permit, if applefun is doing his/her RA/TA based on a study permit, s/he will not qualify for CEC for his/her RA/TA, no matter it is paid/ unpaid- do you agree?

If applefun has any foreign experience (at least 1 year according to CIC definition), s/he will qualify for FSW. Make sense?

False dichotomy.

The first question is correct. Work done under a study permit does not qualify for CEC.

The second is also correct. Foreign work qualifies for FSW.

There's a third part, though. Work done under a study permit may still qualify for FSW, if it's paid.

 

[f1ahmed]

False dichotomy.

The first question is correct. Work done under a study permit does not qualify for CEC.

The second is also correct. Foreign work qualifies for FSW.

There's a third part, though. Work done under a study permit may still qualify for FSW, if it's paid.

You are absolutely wrong here. I know two persons doing PhD and working as a RA/TA whom i helped to open a profile in EE and they could not qualify with their paid RA/TA experience. Because they don't have any foreign experience, only paid RA/TA experience. They have completed more than 2 years and doing PhD with my wife. could you please explain with some link from CIC why they were not qualified for EE? that will definitely help them to open a profile.

 

[f1ahmed]

False dichotomy.

The first question is correct. Work done under a study permit does not qualify for CEC.

The second is also correct. Foreign work qualifies for FSW.

There's a third part, though. Work done under a study permit may still qualify for FSW, if it's paid.

For your reference, visit this thread where you will find number of PhD students tried to open profile with their TA/RA experience and found ineligible for express entry.


http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/phd-stream-under-express-entry-t262889.15.html

 

[kateg]

Are they eligible for FSW, with 67 points?

If yes, it's a bug. If no, then that would be why.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=855&t=6

I read through the thread you posted, including this post from morena34:

Ok guys, so I created another profile. Everything was the same as before until Work Experience section. I realized this time steps were a bit different, and obviously I only included my RA/TA experience. This time the question about work permit things showed up. At the end I submitted it and everything were transmitted. Eventually I ended up meeting FSW criteria. I'm guessing I might have entered something wrong in my previous profile. At the same time the lawyer in our university was saying that relying only on RA/TA would be still tricky.

 

[kateg]

Here's another one from fan255offline:

For those still in a Phd program, are they even eligible for EE?

(I filled out my EE profile, it says Im eligible for FSW. But I'm afraid I may put incorrect information about work experience as TA/RA there.)

 

[kateg]

And another one from pxjiushun100:

We are on the same boat. I also graduated on Nov. 2014 and am working as a postdoc now. I had submitted EE profile and used RA and TA as my primary occupation and working experience. I met the criteria of Federal Skilled Worker, and have 402 points.

 

[f1ahmed]

Are they eligible for FSW, with 67 points?

If yes, it's a bug. If no, then that would be why.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=855&t=6

I read through the thread you posted, including this post from morena34:

I read all the comments and all the replies in that thread. You will find lot of users complaining could not open profile even after having 67 points. tell me one thing: how will you answer the question of work permit? and does TA/RA continuous full time or part time? how will you claim your work hours /week? Anyway, I am not convinced as I personally went through this.

A person from CIC did a workshop at Ryerson University (they do this workshop in all universities) beginning of this year 2015 and i went there with my wife. He told clearly that a PhD students can not qualify for EE if you don't have any previous experience. Not sure how system allows a few people to open the profile.