Problems RE: non-accompanying dependent child

[MaiPenRai]

Hi to everyone in the forum. I would be extremely grateful if someone here could help me out of a bit of a situation.

I sent in a sponsor and permanent residence application for my wife (I am a Canadian citizen). The application package was returned to me because of a situation that is beyond our control: My wife has a daughter from a previous relationship, who was taken away from her by the child's father. My wife has not had any contact with the girl or the father for over 4 years, so it was not possible for us to get photos of the child or to get the child medically examined, although she does fall under the "dependent child" category according to CIC's definition.

My wife and the child's father split on extremely poor terms, to put it lightly, several years ago, but there was never any official custody battle. At the time, he was working internationally and was moving every 2 years or so due to his job requirements. This leaves us with no way to realistically track down the child or the father, and even if we did, he would certainly refuse to help us in any way.

We included a letter along with the application, outlining these unfortunate circumstances, but this does not seem to have been sufficient. The application was returned saying only:

1. Submit recent photographs for non-accompanying dependent child, <NAME>.
2. Please submit Medical Report Form(s) (IMM1017 - Copy 2) for non-accompanying dependent, <NAME>.

I found this response a little frustrating, because there was no mention of the letter that was included in the application. This leads me to believe that the officer perhaps did not see it among the sea of other papers in the envelope - otherwise he would have at least mentioned that the letter is insufficient, instead of just stating the obvious. Am I correct in this thinking? I called the CIC call centre earlier and inquired about this, but the call centre operator assured me that this was not the case, and that we just needed further proof that we did everything in our power to contact the child's father in order to get the child photographed and medically examined. She failed to provide details on what sort of proof is acceptable.

So I have 2 questions:

1. Is it possible that the officer simply didn't see the letter explaining the situation? Could this oversight be the reason for the simple rejection of the application?
2. If we do need to show further proof of attempting to contact the child's father, what type of proof is suitable? A recorded telephone conversation (if we can find his telephone number), an email, a written letter? How could we even go about trying to find a person when we don't even know the country he resides in?

I understand that these are difficult questions, but I am at my wit's end, and cannot really afford to pay a lawyer to handle this at the moment.

I will be deeply grateful for any advice I receive here.

Thanks!

 

[isakben]

My understanding of all this was that you don't have to list the dependent child....and if you don't you might not be able to sponsor them to Canada in the future, which in your case does not seem to be an issue ?

So simply just don't have the child on the forms.


To be sure i would call the immigration hotline and ask as i just remember reading this somewhere and i'm not a 100% sure.


Found this in the guide to immigration 3999E.pdf

"All your family members, whether accompanying you or not, must be declared on your application and be
examined. If family members are not examined, it is generally not possible to sponsor them at a later date.
This includes children in the custody of a former spouse or common-law partner."

 

[PMM]

Hi

My understanding of all this was that you don't have to list the dependent child....and if you don't you might not be able to sponsor them to Canada in the future, which in your case does not seem to be an issue ?

So simply just don't have the child on the forms.


To be sure i would call the immigration hotline and ask as i just remember reading this somewhere and i'm not a 100% sure.


Found this in the guide to immigration 3999E.pdf

"All your family members, whether accompanying you or not, must be declared on your application and be
examined. If family members are not examined, it is generally not possible to sponsor them at a later date.
This includes children in the custody of a former spouse or common-law partner."

1. If you don't include the existence of a child that is called misrepresentation and could result in the refusal of the application and a 2 year ban.

PMM

 

[MaiPenRai]

Thanks for the quick replies. Unfortunately we no longer have the option of simply not listing the child, because the application has already been submitted and returned. I figured that honesty was the best policy, but may be paying for that decision now. In any case, as PMM mentioned, this could have potentially caused problems of a different kind, so I stand by my decision to list the child.

Please do keep the options coming though, and thanks again for taking the time to help me.

 

[matthewc]

First, you should at least try to contact the father at the last known whereabouts.

Even if you don't think you will ever want to bring the daughter to Canada, ask yourself what would happen if 1 year from now, someone contacted you saying the father had been killed in an accident, and your wife was now the child's closest relative. If you do manage to make contact, that is the sort of scenario that should (hopefully, if the father has the best interests of his child in mind) get him to reconsider letting her be examined - just to keep the door open. Of course, I hope that never happens, as it would be tragic, but these are the sorts of reasons why CIC takes it very seriously that non-accompanying dependents need to be examined to protect future sponsorship rights - because situations change in ways that nobody imagines they would.

If you can't contact the father at all, you'll need to send CIC proof of the efforts you have made to contact him. At that point, the ball is in CIC's court. They could decide to proceed without examining the child. More likely, though, is that they will require your wife to sign a declaration that she is choosing to proceed with the application without having her daughter examined, and that she understands this permanently excludes the daughter from being sponsored in future.

Once they have either:

1. The medical results and photos, or
2. The declaration from your wife, or
3. Decided not to examine the daughter (very unlikely)

...they will proceed with processing the PR application.

 

[MaiPenRai]

Hi Matthew, and thanks for your reply.

I understand the reasons why the CIC takes this very seriously, and I agree with them in most cases, although in this case I firmly believe that the father would want the child to live with his parents or sister much sooner than with my wife and I, since history has made us enemies. Of course the CIC has no way of knowing this, and it is not something that can be proven easily.

Please understand that I am not trying to argue against the CIC's principles here, I agree with them, but I do believe that this is an exceptional situation and that those same principles should not apply here. The only question is how to make that evident to the CIC.

So, with a full understanding of the consequences, my wife and I have decided to apply for permanent residence in Canada for her, because the chances of the child ever coming into our care are near impossible. This was not a hasty decision, and we thought about it long and hard. The question that remains is not WHETHER we want to do this or not, but HOW we can do it, given the facts of the situation.

If you can't contact the father at all, you'll need to send CIC proof of the efforts you have made to contact him. At that point, the ball is in CIC's court.

That's exactly what my question was: what is considered acceptable proof of trying to contact him? For example, if I were to find out his telephone number and call him - how do I show proof of that? Or if I find him on Facebook and contact him that way - are print outs of correspondence ok? I would feel silly even asking him for any help, but I will do it if I need to - I just want to know what sort of proof the CIC is looking for, like some solid criteria that separate acceptable proof from unacceptable proof, or at least some concrete examples.

Thanks again for everyone's help. Much appreciated.

 

[Perfect]

I am in the same situation as well but the difference is I haven't filed in my application. Im sponsoring my husband and he has a child from a previous relationship, we have tried to contact the mother to bring the baby for medicals and everything but she doesn't want. She actually thinks we want to run away with her daughter so there's now a lot of tension between them, and she wont comply with anything in regards to paperwork, and the only way you can get an ex to write an affidavit stating that they don't want with the kid is when you have a civil relationship. In this case, and probably most others, ex's will do anything to pull you down, a lot of hatred has developed, she wont take his calls anymore, she wont even give him a copy of the birth certificate. So I don't know, we have just decided to write an affidavit telling them that we have done all we can and she wont comply, hence we cannot provide the birth certificate and medicals and photo at this time. He will also state that he is aware that he will be unable to sponsor her at a later date and he is willing to proceed with the application. I don't know how thats going to go but maybe you can try that, let them know you are aware of the consequences and that you will proceed with the application regardless. I also called in immigration at some point, about 2 months ago and they advised me to submit any evidence i.e a search in the newspaper , that would be good. But we don't have to search fro someone we know where she is, she just wont comply..hope this helps and hope i can also get some insight as well before i send in mine. Good luck!

 

[chelley]

i know in many courts of law, placing ads requesting him to contact you (and a brief outline of what it is regarding) in various newspapers classifieds, running for at least 2 weeks, counts as an effort to contact someone with whom you have no knowledge of their whereabouts... not sure if CIC would judge the same, but it does give concrete evidence (the news paper clippings/receipt) of attempts... this could also be done for free online on a craigslist or whatever, but i think in a court they want it in physical, tangible newsprint (and not off the wall papers like the monthy copy of the small feet journal or something).... must be in the major papers of the area he is believed to be in (or in a paper you can justify he or his peers might read for whatever reason)...

however i know, for legal matters, this route is not highly advisable without the backing of an attorney... i strongly suggest that, if you are serious about making this happen, you find a way to enlist a qualified immigration attorney for advice... you may not be able to afford it, but in many ways, you really cannot afford not to... barring that, maybe calling the call centre and asking to speak to a supervisor or team leader who might have more insight/knowledge and experience with special circumstances such as yours...

good luck

 

[Perfect]

So what if you just leave the child out of the application, I know the problem will arise when you want to sponsor he child, but if you dont mention the existence of the child will they find out?

 

[chelley]

1) it would technically be faulsifying a form, which is a crime, and could make the application automatically declined should the information be discovered (and a 2 year ban from the country, and likely subject to a very difficult process should they reapply)

2) it's a moot point here as they've already submitted stating that they do not have access to the child to provide the required info and are now dealing with CIC requesting the information anyways...

in your case if you haven't submitted, well it's a judgement call.. i wouldn't recommend it

 

[MaiPenRai]

@Perfect: I am sorry to hear that you are in a similar situation. However, I believe you have slightly more hope since you at least know where your husband's ex is, so you can attempt calls and get telephone records showing that. Assuming you also know her address, you can send a registered letter to her making your request, with postal delivery records as proof, as well as email print outs etc. I think that should be sufficient. Simply not listing the child is a bit of a risk, because the CIC can revoke your husband's permanent residence status down the line if they do find out even after the application is approved.

@chelley: Thanks very much for the suggestion. I will try to contact his last known employer to see if they know where he went next, and try to follow that trail somehow. If we at least find out what country he is in, we can try the classified ads thing. Besides that, we know approximately where his mother and father live, so we can also try running ads in that area.

Any further suggestions would be great.

 

[Siouxie]

Suggestions:

You could write to his family (you mentioned a sister and parent) explaining what you need and asking if they could forward your request to the father (enclose letter to father) - then keep a copy of the letters and proof of dispatch/delivery and send that together with any response.

You could ask his family for his contact details.

You could write to his last known address and send it registered post (so someone has to sign for it) and send a copy of the letter, registration and delivery signature (or if it is returned to you, the returned mail) and send that as proof of attempt to contact.

You could google him!

You could contact any associations or membership he might need to have for his work.

 

[MaiPenRai]

Thanks Siouxie, those are some good suggestions. I hope that I can get all that info and that the proof you suggest is sufficient in the CIC officer's eyes. Time to get cracking I guess.

 

[mrrm03]

My understanding of all this was that you don't have to list the dependent child....and if you don't you might not be able to sponsor them to Canada in the future, which in your case does not seem to be an issue ?

So simply just don't have the child on the forms.


To be sure i would call the immigration hotline and ask as i just remember reading this somewhere and i'm not a 100% sure.


Found this in the guide to immigration 3999E.pdf

"All your family members, whether accompanying you or not, must be declared on your application and be
examined. If family members are not examined, it is generally not possible to sponsor them at a later date.
This includes children in the custody of a former spouse or common-law partner."

hi im on same situation should i not list my spouse dependent since the mother of the child refuse for medical examination?? Or should i still put her but asked for mothers refusal letter signed and notarized many thanks

 

[canadianwoman]

You have to list the applicant's dependent, even if there is no contact. If you don't mention the child, and CIC finds out, the application will be rejected and the applicant will get a two-year ban.
Do your best to get the child examined. Document all your efforts to contact the mother. If she continues to refuse to have the child examined, then you will need proof you tried to convince her to do it and failed.