Waiting for Post Graduation Work Permit, but OCWP, SP and SIN have expired

[enon]

Hi, this is my first post here. I searched for similar threads and found them in this forum, so I hope this is the right place to post it. The previous thread is about a year old, so I thought I'd start a new one. I can't post the link to the old thread but it's titled "working after off campus work permit expires but before PGWP decision".

Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide some clarification.


Here's my situation:

- Completed a 1 year Master's program, running from September 2011-August 2012, defended thesis in Sept 2012, received clearance to graduate in early October 2012.

- Study permit, Off Campus Work Permit and SIN were valid through mid-October 2012. This was my passport expiry date (mid-October) so I did not get the study permit for the 1 year + 90 days. It was more like 1 year + 45 days.

- Renewed my passport in July 2012 and Applied for PGWP in early October 2012, BEFORE my study permit expired as the rules require.

I am waiting for the PGWP to arrive, and my study permit, Off Campus Work Permit and SIN have all expired as per their mid-October date. Now, I know that as long as I carry around my PGWP payment receipt, I can legally stay in Canada until my PGWP arrives.

What I want to know is, can I start work at a new employer under the "implied status" rule? Service Canada told me that I can't renew my SIN until the PGWP arrives, and an employer can't pay me until I renew the SIN.

For reference, please see CIC's Operational Bulletin 193 – April 12, 2010. I can't post the link since I'm a new member.

Under the "Transition from OCWP to PGWP" section it says:

"Since the validity period of an off-campus work permit is usually the same as the student's study period (the duration of the academic program plus 90 days), they do not have to surrender their off-campus work permit to apply. They can continue to work under the Off-Campus Work Permit provided that they hold both a valid study permit and a valid off-campus work permit."

So this seems to assume that the PGWP applicant has the "plus 90 days" on his study permit to begin with, so they will have a valid study permit and OCWP for 90 days after their program officially ends.

As I've explained, this is NOT my situation. What does implied status mean for me in this case. Can I work now, or do i need to wait until I get the PGWP?


***********************************

EDIT: I may have found an answer. I'd appreciate it if others commented on whether I'm right or wrong. I'm referring to a Service Canada webpage titled "Why should I verify and record the expiry date of all SIN cards bearing a number that begins with a "9"?"

I can't post links, so you'll have to Google it. Basically, in the last paragraph, it says:

If a temporary resident applies for renewal of their work or study permit and their permit expires before a decision is made, paragraph 186(u) and section 189 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulation provides them the right to continue working or studying under the same conditions, pending a determination of their application for renewal, as long as they remain in Canada. This is referred as "implied status". The temporary foreign worker will have implied status until a decision is rendered by CIC.

So I should be legally able to work while I wait for the PGWP. Of course, I think it'll depend on the employer....if they don't know you well, they may not want to deal with the whole legal hassle regarding this and may just tell you to interview again once the PGWP arrives

 

[fengshaohun1233]

@enon, did u receive your work permit ? and did u check with CIC　automatic phone service?

 

[jes_ON]

I am waiting for the PGWP to arrive, and my study permit, Off Campus Work Permit and SIN have all expired as per their mid-October date. Now, I know that as long as I carry around my PGWP payment receipt, I can legally stay in Canada until my PGWP arrives.

What I want to know is, can I start work at a new employer under the "implied status" rule? Service Canada told me that I can't renew my SIN until the PGWP arrives, and an employer can't pay me until I renew the SIN.

You are correct, you are on implied status and you are legally entitled to work under the same terms as the expired work permit.

You are authorized to work, and you can do so (and get paid) before you renew your SIN. When you get your PGWP and renew the SIN, it will be the same number, you can explain that to your prospective employer.

But you are correct, many employers may be uncertain about this, and rather than making the effort to inform themselves, might just decide it's not worth the hassle.

And honestly - in the unlikely event that you DIDN'T get the PWGP and can't renew the SIN, I have no idea how they would account for your employment without a SIN...

 

[SenoritaBella]

What I want to know is, can I start work at a new employer under the "implied status" rule? Service Canada told me that I can't renew my SIN until the PGWP arrives, and an employer can't pay me until I renew the SIN.

If by "new employer" you mean a situation where for instance: you were working for Starbucks using your off-campus work permit but you now want to work for Tim Hortons, the answer is 'No', you can not work for a new employer(because you will not have implied status and must wait for the permit before you start the job at Tim Hortons). The new employer should not hire you without a work permit anyway and can not pay your salary since your SIN is expired.

But if you are going to continue working for Starbucks(as you wait for the PGWP), then you have implied status and can continue working with the expired SIN in that case. Here's HRDSC's explanation:

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/sin/employers/expiry.shtml

"Before hiring a new employee

You must see the employee's existing immigration document authorizing him or her to work in Canada (e.g. work permit, study permit) and verify that it has not expired. If the immigration document has expired, you should ask the employee to contact Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) to obtain a valid document.

Before extending employment for your employee

You must verify that the employee is eligible to continue working in Canada. Your employee must have applied to extend their authorization to stay and work in Canada with CIC in advance of the expiry date on their document.

If a temporary resident applies for renewal of their work or study permit and their permit expires before a decision is made, paragraph 186(u) and section 189 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulation provides them the right to continue working or studying under the same conditions, pending a determination of their application for renewal, as long as they remain in Canada. This is referred as "implied status". The temporary foreign worker will have implied status until a decision is rendered by CIC.

In this case, a SIN card bearing a new expiry date will only be issued once CIC has rendered a decision. In the interim, where "implied status" is confirmed, the expired SIN may continue to be used. To obtain a replacement SIN card with a new expiry date, the temporary foreign worker must apply and present a valid immigration document issued by CIC.
For more information about hiring or extending the work of temporary foreign workers, you may contact the CIC Call Centre at 1-888-242-2100."

 

[jes_ON]

If a temporary resident applies for renewal of their work or study permit and their permit expires before a decision is made, paragraph 186(u) and section 189 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulation provides them the right to continue working or studying under the same conditions, pending a determination of their application for renewal, as long as they remain in Canada. This is referred as "implied status". The temporary foreign worker will have implied status until a decision is rendered by CIC.

Not saying you're wrong, but I don't think the above info clears anything up.

That would be, under the same conditions as the off-campus work permit (it does not say same employer, and OCWPs are not closed work permits). That implies that "same conditions" would mean able accept a job with a new employer...

I would suggest calling CIC and asking, but even if the answer is "yes, you can work for a new employer," it may not matter much if you can't convince the employer that its legitimate, as already discussed...

 

[enon]

Thanks to everyone who responded.

To the person who asked if I have my PGWP yet, the answer is no unfortunately. I applied 40 days ago. According to the CIC website, the processing time for "Work Permit (New Employer)" is 68 days right now!!

I see that it is a murky topic legally, but would have been less so had my passport been valid to cover the whole 90-day period when my study permit was first issued.

I think that the right way to have gone about this would perhaps have been to apply for the $125 study permit bridging extension, through which I might have been able to extend my SIN and OCWP until the PGWP came.

If others are in the same situation as me (which is an unusual one I think), I strongly recommend that they get the bridging extension.

 

[MUSHROOMROOM]

Have you received your PGWP yet?

 

[the13thtee]

Hi, this is my first post here. I searched for similar threads and found them in this forum, so I hope this is the right place to post it. The previous thread is about a year old, so I thought I'd start a new one. I can't post the link to the old thread but it's titled "working after off campus work permit expires but before PGWP decision".

Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide some clarification.


Here's my situation:

- Completed a 1 year Master's program, running from September 2011-August 2012, defended thesis in Sept 2012, received clearance to graduate in early October 2012.

- Study permit, Off Campus Work Permit and SIN were valid through mid-October 2012. This was my passport expiry date (mid-October) so I did not get the study permit for the 1 year + 90 days. It was more like 1 year + 45 days.

- Renewed my passport in July 2012 and Applied for PGWP in early October 2012, BEFORE my study permit expired as the rules require.

I am waiting for the PGWP to arrive, and my study permit, Off Campus Work Permit and SIN have all expired as per their mid-October date. Now, I know that as long as I carry around my PGWP payment receipt, I can legally stay in Canada until my PGWP arrives.

What I want to know is, can I start work at a new employer under the "implied status" rule? Service Canada told me that I can't renew my SIN until the PGWP arrives, and an employer can't pay me until I renew the SIN.

For reference, please see CIC's Operational Bulletin 193 – April 12, 2010. I can't post the link since I'm a new member.

Under the "Transition from OCWP to PGWP" section it says:

"Since the validity period of an off-campus work permit is usually the same as the student's study period (the duration of the academic program plus 90 days), they do not have to surrender their off-campus work permit to apply. They can continue to work under the Off-Campus Work Permit provided that they hold both a valid study permit and a valid off-campus work permit."

So this seems to assume that the PGWP applicant has the "plus 90 days" on his study permit to begin with, so they will have a valid study permit and OCWP for 90 days after their program officially ends.

As I've explained, this is NOT my situation. What does implied status mean for me in this case. Can I work now, or do i need to wait until I get the PGWP?


***********************************

EDIT: I may have found an answer. I'd appreciate it if others commented on whether I'm right or wrong. I'm referring to a Service Canada webpage titled "Why should I verify and record the expiry date of all SIN cards bearing a number that begins with a "9"?"

I can't post links, so you'll have to Google it. Basically, in the last paragraph, it says:

If a temporary resident applies for renewal of their work or study permit and their permit expires before a decision is made, paragraph 186(u) and section 189 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulation provides them the right to continue working or studying under the same conditions, pending a determination of their application for renewal, as long as they remain in Canada. This is referred as "implied status". The temporary foreign worker will have implied status until a decision is rendered by CIC.

So I should be legally able to work while I wait for the PGWP. Of course, I think it'll depend on the employer....if they don't know you well, they may not want to deal with the whole legal hassle regarding this and may just tell you to interview again once the PGWP arrives

How did it go then? Anyone in a similar situation?

 

[Navneet987]

Hi ,
This is the most correct answer. Ask your employer to refer this website of canada.ca which states you can work on implied status even on expired SIN. Refer to section , if SIN expires( on last)
https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/services/sin/receiving-updating.html