Guys, thanks for helping us all, my question is simple. If i don't meet the residency obligation and apply for a PRTD on humanitarian grounds. If the PRTD gets rejected, can i still try to enter from the US Border or will they update the system and deny entry to Canada permanently through all channels?
PRTD denied? Is it all over ?
- Thread starter mib761
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By applying for a PRTD, you are asking immigration to take a stand on your status. If you try to enter from the US without applying for a PRTD, it is possible that they will let you enter without reporting you for not meeting the RO in which case your PR status is not revoked or under investigation and you can put it back in good standing by staying for 2 years.mib761 said:
If however you do apply for a PRTD and it is denied, you would still have a chance to appeal. If the appeal is denied too, you would officially lose your PR status. Sure you can try to enter Canada via the US and see if you get in because possibly they haven't updated the system yet but once your PR status is revoked, there is nothing for you in Canada anymore. You will not be putting your PR status back in good standing by staying for 2 years because your PR status is already gone. You would simply be living in Canada illegally.
Thanks a ton Leon. Since I have already applied for a PRTD i guess my best chance is to either withdraw my application immediately and try the US border route. Alternatively wait for the outcome of the PRTD application (it has already been 3 months with no response) and in case rejected, try the US border route before my PR is revoked. Any advice please?
If your case is rejected then you will lose your PR status as soon as the decision is made. You won't be able to try to enter via the US. If you still want to try to save your PR status after the refusal your only option will be to appeal the PRTD decision.mib761 said:
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I tend to concur with everyone on here. IMHO, the US border approach is the best one if that avenue is available to you (for instance if you're from one of the visa waiver countries or you already have some sort of US visa such as a H1-B work visa or a B1/B2 visitor visa). I always like to remind people that getting a US visa from some parts of the world is notoriously difficult though!mib761 said:
Thanks guys. Now that I have already applied for the PRTD, I will appeal if denied. After I appeal is it worth that I try to enter through US border and stay in Canada till the appeal is decided. Will it strengthen my appeal and the fact that children are already studying in Canada and will suffer if they leave. Guess appeal takes 2 years approx.
Your children were already studying in Canada in the past years while you were away? Immigration will say if the children are used to you being away, they will not suffer if you leave. If the children were sent to Canada to study only recently, immigration will say that they have more ties to your home country than to Canada and will not suffer if they have to leave with you.mib761 said:
I think you are better off withdrawing your application for a TD and trying to enter through the US if possible. If you get reported on entry, I know the processing times can be long and being well settled at the time of your hearing can work in your favour. If you are not reported on entry, you simply stay for 2 years and then renew.
Your spirit of helping others through this forum highly appreciated. Thank you I got good advice which makes sense. Will withdraw my application for PRTD immediately. I hope they let me do so and not report me since it has been under process for last 3 months and part of their records already.
Any updates on your situation. Were you able to cross the land border into Canada with an expired PR card and a rejected PRTD? If you stayed in Canada with expired PR card, any challenges you faced?
If you have a rejected PRTD unless you appealed you would have already lost your PR status. Every case is unique when it comes entering Canada without a valid PR card while not meeting RO. Luck also is involved. There may be also changes to level of enforcement.
Thanks. However, based on the earlier discussion, is my understanding correct that you will still be allowed via land border after PRTD is rejected IF 1) You have not passed the deadline for appealing the PRTD rejection decision OR 2) after you have appealed from outside Canada and decision is still pending on your PR revocation.
I guess one possible way to find out is to actually go to the land border. You can update us the result.
If a person is a Canadian Permanent Resident outside Canada applying for a PR Travel Document, and that application is denied/rejected on the grounds they are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation, AND there are not sufficient H&C considerations to allow them to retain PR status despite the breach, they continue to be a Canadian PR until the right of appeal is exhausted/terminated.
The right of appeal will be exhausted/terminated:
-- when the period for making an appeal (60 days from date PR TD denied) has elapsed and no appeal has been made, or
-- when a timely made appeal is denied
So, as long as they are a PR, as long as there is still a right of appeal, the person continues to have the same privileges as other PRs, including what we typically refer to as the right to enter Canada (a statutory right, not a Charter right).
So, yes, in this circumstance, if less than sixty days have passed since the date of the decision denying the PR TD, or if an appeal has been timely and properly commenced, just like any other PR they are entitled to enter Canada upon arrival at a Port-of-Entry into Canada. Their PR status, and thus their status to remain in Canada, will depend on the outcome of the appeal.
For emphasis: to keep PR status a timely and proper appeal must be made, and that appeal must be successful. Days in Canada pending the appeal, that is days after PR TD is denied, do NOT count toward meeting the PR RO even though the hearing before the IAD is de novo.
Some Clarifications:
An application for a PR Travel Document will be rejected if the visa office determines the person applying is not a PR (including persons who were previously a PR where there was, previously, a final determination they are no longer a PR). That's a different subject.
For PRs denied a PR TD, unless an appeal is made and allowed (setting aside the decision outside Canada), when the right of appeal is exhausted/terminated that conclusively terminates PR status, making the individual a Foreign National. Many FNs who were previously a PR will still be allowed entry into Canada, subject to the rules governing authorization to enter Canada applicable to FNs; if allowed entry that will be as temporary residents not PRs.
It warrants remembering that being issued a new PR card will NOT override a PR TD denial (based on inadmissibility for a RO breach). If a PR TD has been denied, the PR must successfully appeal in order to keep PR status.
Re response by @steaky . . . more snarky than steaky . . . deliberately uninformative.