PR card renewal - Accompanying a Canadian citizen

[colgate1]

I plan on sending my wife and son to my wife's home country. They probably stay overseas more than 3 years.

I will be staying with them as well but probably come back to Canada every now and then. I am a Candian citizen.

My wife got her PR recently and her PR card expires in 5 years.

My son is a Canadian citizen. He is a minor.

I dont know if this may be an issue when my wife renews her PR card in 5 years because she will be staying outside Canada for some time.

I heard that if you are accompanying a Canadian citizen, those days do count towards your PR days.

As a PR, you need to stay in Canada 2 or 3 out of 5 years.

Would that be the case for my wife when she renews her PR card as she is accompanying a Canadian citizen, my son; can she still renew her PR even though she stays outside the country more than 3 years?


Do you have to be in Canada to renew your PR card or you can renew it outside the country?

Thank you

 

[Naturgrl]

https://www.ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

Read the rules. Child doesn’t count. She needs to be in Canada to renew. Also says “may” be eligible so if you are coming back to Canada periodically you will want to track that time, and her time outside Canada with you.

 

[colgate1]

https://www.ircc.canada.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10

Read the rules. Child doesn’t count. She needs to be in Canada to renew. Also says “may” be eligible so if you are coming back to Canada periodically you will want to track that time, and her time outside Canada with you.

Thank you for the link. I understand PR needs to be in Canada to renew the PR Card


I looked at the link but not sure if it is related.

Our son is a citizen and she will be accompanying him So this does not really count towards PR days?

Thank you

 

[Naturgrl]

Thank you for the link. I understand PR needs to be in Canada to renew the PR Card


I looked at the link but not sure if it is related.

Our son is a citizen and she will be accompanying her. So this does not rellt count towards PR days?

Thank you

No. Only spouse as per the link. So you need to keep track of your days with her outside Canada.

 

[colgate1]

No. Only spouse as per the link. So you need to keep track of your days with her outside Canada.

Hmm thats odd. Last time I checked, Canadian child was mentioned.

It is my wife's home country. I believe it would be considered as I accompanying her instead of she is accompaying me.

 

[Naturgrl]

Hmm thats odd. Last time I checked, Canadian child was mentioned.

It is my wife's home country. I believe it would be considered as I accompanying her instead of she is accompaying me.

Don’t remember Canadian child ever being mentioned…only dependant PR child accompanying Canadian parents. Don’t think rules have changed.

She is accompanying you as a Canadian citizen, even if her home country. Track the days you live with her in that country as she is living with you outside of Canada.

 

[scylla]

Hmm thats odd. Last time I checked, Canadian child was mentioned.

It is my wife's home country. I believe it would be considered as I accompanying her instead of she is accompaying me.

Children were only mentioned in the context of being able to retain their PR status if accompanying a Canadian citizen parent outside of Canada.

It has never been possible for a PR to retain their status if a Canadian child is accompanying them outside of Canada.

 

[colgate1]

Don’t remember Canadian child ever being mentioned…only dependant PR child accompanying Canadian parents. Don’t think rules have changed.

She is accompanying you as a Canadian citizen, even if her home country. Track the days you live with her in that country as she is living with you outside of Canada.

Thank you for the heads up.

I dont want to open can of warms with my taxes if I state i live outside Canada.

 

[colgate1]

Children were only mentioned in the context of being able to retain their PR status if accompanying a Canadian citizen parent outside of Canada.

It has never been possible for a PR to retain their status if a Canadian child is accompanying them outside of Canada.

I do remember reading some stuff related. I am not hallucinating

 

[canuck78]

I plan on sending my wife and son to my wife's home country. They probably stay overseas more than 3 years.

I will be staying with them as well but probably come back to Canada every now and then. I am a Candian citizen.

My wife got her PR recently and her PR card expires in 5 years.

My son is a Canadian citizen. He is a minor.

I dont know if this may be an issue when my wife renews her PR card in 5 years because she will be staying outside Canada for some time.

I heard that if you are accompanying a Canadian citizen, those days do count towards your PR days.

As a PR, you need to stay in Canada 2 or 3 out of 5 years.

Would that be the case for my wife when she renews her PR card as she is accompanying a Canadian citizen, my son; can she still renew her PR even though she stays outside the country more than 3 years?


Do you have to be in Canada to renew your PR card or you can renew it outside the country?

Thank you

Would also add that if she leaves soon after getting PR that could also potentially creates concerns about who is accompanying whom especially if you still are a resident of Canada. How long has your wife lived in Canada and how long has she had PR? How much time are you planning on spending in Canada per year? Will you be working in Canada? Abroad? If you live abroad you have to inform IRCC of your change of residence. CRA can determine whether you remain a tax resident or not. Tax fraud can have significant consequences.

 

[YVR123]

Thank you for the heads up.

I dont want to open can of warms with my taxes if I state i live outside Canada.

You cannot be both living outside (so your wife can meet RO being accommodating you) and inside (for tax purposes) and choose whatever works for you in each of the situation.

If you move to your wife's country to work there, she will be accommodating you outside and can meet her RO that way.
If you are NOT moving to your wife's country to work, she needs to meet her RO by staying inside Canada physically at least 2 years out of 5 rolling year.
It's a family decision.

 

[dpenabill]

Clarification of RO Credit based on Accompanying Canadian Citizen:

Children were only mentioned in the context of being able to retain their PR status if accompanying a Canadian citizen parent outside of Canada.

It has never been possible for a PR to retain their status if a Canadian child is accompanying them outside of Canada.

I do remember reading some stuff related. I am not hallucinating

Odds are you misunderstood what you read (assuming you read a reliable source, like information published/posted by CIC/IRCC).

In particular, @scylla is correct. A Canadian PR has never been entitled to credit toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation for days outside Canada that they were accompanying their child who is a Canadian citizen.

Quoting directly from the statutory provision itself, RO credit based on accompanying a Canadian citizen is for days the PR is

"outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen who is their spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, their parent"​

. . . and to be clear, "in the case of a child" means a child who is a PR accompanying "their parent," when the parent is a Canadian citizen (and the PR meets the definition of a "child"). It has not been at all uncommon for some to misunderstand this to include credit for a parent abroad with their child who is a Canadian citizen but that is not what it says or means, and has never been interpreted otherwise in the IAD or Federal Courts, or in guides or instructions for IRCC/CIC or CBSA immigration officers.

To read the statute itself, see Section 28(2)(a)(ii) here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-5.html#h-274598
To see version adopted and in effect as of January 1, 2003, which for this provision is the same, see here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/section-28-20030101.html (version 2003-01-01 to 2005-03-31)
It is easy to navigate the various versions over the intervening years at that site; this particular provision has not changed.

Similarly in the applicable operational manual, ENF 23, dating back to its first version, 2003-09-02.

Further Clarification of RO Credit Based on Accompanying Canadian Citizen; Accompanying Citizen Spouse:

It is my wife's home country. I believe it would be considered as I accompanying her instead of she is accompaying me.

In the responses so far there is some dancing around the potential for a who-accompanied-whom question arising when a PR is relying on RO credit for days outside Canada based on the accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse. If, indeed, you are considered to be accompanying your PR spouse, not her accompanying you the Canadian citizen, that can result in NOT getting RO credit for days outside Canada together. BUT this does not appear to be common. BUT for many years now, in many IAD and Federal Court cases the IRCC Minister's representative has been arguing that RO credit should NOT be allowed for days the citizen spouse is accompanying the PR, rather than the PR accompanying the citizen.

So there is SOME risk unless it is clear that the couple moved abroad from Canada together and are living together abroad. How much risk will vary depending on the particular circumstances and, in particular, the extent of the risk is extremely difficult to quantify.

Discussed in depth here: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/who-accompanied-whom-can-matter-for-prs-living-with-citizen-spouse-abroad-update.579860/

 

[armoured]

I do remember reading some stuff related. I am not hallucinating

Just throwing this idea for consideration - you may well have read some stuff that was wrong. There's a lot of bullshit out there.

Whether you actually read it or thought you read it: doesn't matter. Still not factual, still doesn't apply now (whether or not it ever did in the past).

 

[colgate1]

Would also add that if she leaves soon after getting PR that could also potentially creates concerns about who is accompanying whom especially if you still are a resident of Canada. How long has your wife lived in Canada and how long has she had PR? How much time are you planning on spending in Canada per year? Will you be working in Canada? Abroad? If you live abroad you have to inform IRCC of your change of residence. CRA can determine whether you remain a tax resident or not. Tax fraud can have significant consequences.

I believe I would still be the resident of Canada.

Yeah those are valid points and totally understandable.

It would be less than a year with PR. I dont think she would spend too much time in Canada after she leaves.

My concern is the taxes if she accompanies me. That would make me living in another country which would make things very complicated.

 

[colgate1]

You cannot be both living outside (so your wife can meet RO being accommodating you) and inside (for tax purposes) and choose whatever works for you in each of the situation.

If you move to your wife's country to work there, she will be accommodating you outside and can meet her RO that way.
If you are NOT moving to your wife's country to work, she needs to meet her RO by staying inside Canada physically at least 2 years out of 5 rolling year.
It's a family decision.

I wouldnt really consider as living but staying in my wifes home country.


I will not be working in my wifes country. I will probably on a spousal visa.