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If conservatives get into power, will the citizenship eligibility period go back to 4 years again?

dreamingmigrant

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Feb 29, 2024
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I am not worried about myself because I am near my path to citizenship but I was wondering nonetheless. I'm thinking about sponsoring my GF in the future and her passport is from a very weak country. Will we have to wait for four years after her PR so she can finally get a Canadian passport? I'm lost in thoughts.

I know that nobody knows but start throwing your guesses, boys and girls.
 

scylla

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I am not worried about myself because I am near my path to citizenship but I was wondering nonetheless. I'm thinking about sponsoring my GF in the future and her passport is from a very weak country. Will we have to wait for four years after her PR so she can finally get a Canadian passport? I'm lost in thoughts.

I know that nobody knows but start throwing your guesses, boys and girls.
Sure. It's certainly possible. Conservative governments have consistently implemented more restrictive / strict immigration policies.
 

Seym

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Nov 6, 2017
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The biggest focus right now in term of immigration seems to be the increasing number of temporary immigrants (work permits, students).
I can imagine the Poilievre government will first act on this, not a "strengthening" of the citizenship requirements.
That may come at some point but I'd say not in the first years of a Conservative government. After all, Harper came to power in 2006 if I remember correctly, and his 4 years rule (+ removal of pre-PR credit) only got royal assent in 2014.
 

weofikl

Full Member
Jan 26, 2017
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Hi, I am a 'Lost Canadian' and have been in contact with a lot of lawmakers recently in regards to citizenship laws and have watched all the committees in regards to it.

I believe Canada will end birthright citizenship at some point, but first it has other things to worry about. I'm a right winger, so I am for restricting immigration to non-commonwealth countries completely except for very high end business and family.

I think sentiment is rather mixed on how to curb citizenship and visas so for your particular case, I think you are fine. The IRCC is a slow turtle filled with mostly left wing souls. If you are worried about a weak passport can always buy a citizenship in the islands. It's from 175k now, used to be 100k, then can put your mind at ease as you will only need a US visa instead of one anywhere you go.

In any event, there's not going to be a restriction on familial visas ever, so you're chillin'. Just enjoy life and don't worry about the shouting about immigration. I hope you will vote against non-skilled immigration with me in the future as this hurts everyone. Once IRCC is freed up, family sponsorship should reduce in time. When I sponsored my wife to come to the USA abroad it took days only to get the green card from the submission of the application.
 

dreamingmigrant

Full Member
Feb 29, 2024
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In any event, there's not going to be a restriction on familial visas ever, so you're chillin'. Just enjoy life and don't worry about the shouting about immigration. I hope you will vote against non-skilled immigration with me in the future as this hurts everyone. Once IRCC is freed up, family sponsorship should reduce in time. When I sponsored my wife to come to the USA abroad it took days only to get the green card from the submission of the application.
Many non skilled workers in Canada actually have degrees, and in my case, I also am bilingual (English/French). I wasn't able to find a job in my field of study in Canada and did Uber for almost 2.5 years straight. Now that I've saved up enough money, I am planning to go back to school to become a pharmacy technician. Many FSW workers I know did the same thing as me because you can actually make more money giving Uber rides or driving a truck than working in an office. I don't like people who game the system using student visas, etc but let's not degrade all non skilled workers here. Sometimes these jobs are a stepping stone for other things.
 

Copingwithlife

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Jul 29, 2018
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What the idiots are doing that are protesting is just turning more and more voters off immigration. A once pro immigration country is now turning anti immigrant.
if they wanted to get attention, they’ve done it . The wrong kind of attention.
My MP called me . I’m in a LPC riding now forecast to go blue .

I asked him to explain this

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/justin-trudeau-how-to-fix-the-broken-temporary-foreign-worker-program/article_c27f214f-1fa2-5fdf-af61-5a7642e4eb7c.html

https://www.biv.com/news/economy-law-politics/don-wright-why-did-justin-trudeau-switch-sides-class-struggle-8272635

https://thehub.ca/2024/01/31/prime-minister-trudeau-failed-to-follow-his-own-advice-on-temporary-foreign-workers/

It was a short call

Corrupt to the Core
 
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gaiou37

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Wow some people are certainly not afraid to express racist views in this thread.... yikes.
 
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weofikl

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Jan 26, 2017
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Wow some people are certainly not afraid to express racist views in this thread.... yikes.
chatGPT only found the OPs view potentially racist for describing their spouse as having a weak passport fwiw. I think you are perhaps looking to be offended by anti-immigration views because you assume people are angry at a specific race.

Being against open borders is not racist. Nor is being for open borders tolerant. Personally, I find Canadian as a distinct ethnic group which is inclusive of all Canadians. There is a culture and way of life, not merely a skin tone or racial background. Therefore, it is not necessarily unreasonable to argue that unchecked immigration where nobody assimilates is tantamount to genocide.

So, in my personal opinion, your tone hints at pro-genocidal views, but I'm not offended because you are entitled to your own personal view of what is racist and what isn't. I don't think you should expect that you are part of any plurality or even strong minority with your views though.
 

gaiou37

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chatGPT only found the OPs view potentially racist for describing their spouse as having a weak passport fwiw. I think you are perhaps looking to be offended by anti-immigration views because you assume people are angry at a specific race.

Being against open borders is not racist. Nor is being for open borders tolerant. Personally, I find Canadian as a distinct ethnic group which is inclusive of all Canadians. There is a culture and way of life, not merely a skin tone or racial background. Therefore, it is not necessarily unreasonable to argue that unchecked immigration where nobody assimilates is tantamount to genocide.

So, in my personal opinion, your tone hints at pro-genocidal views, but I'm not offended because you are entitled to your own personal view of what is racist and what isn't. I don't think you should expect that you are part of any plurality or even strong minority with your views though.
I'm not even going to attempt to address everything that's wrong with your ridiculous comment.
Have a good day!
 

xf2278389393

Star Member
Aug 27, 2023
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chatGPT only found the OPs view potentially racist for describing their spouse as having a weak passport fwiw. I think you are perhaps looking to be offended by anti-immigration views because you assume people are angry at a specific race.

Being against open borders is not racist. Nor is being for open borders tolerant. Personally, I find Canadian as a distinct ethnic group which is inclusive of all Canadians. There is a culture and way of life, not merely a skin tone or racial background. Therefore, it is not necessarily unreasonable to argue that unchecked immigration where nobody assimilates is tantamount to genocide.

So, in my personal opinion, your tone hints at pro-genocidal views, but I'm not offended because you are entitled to your own personal view of what is racist and what isn't. I don't think you should expect that you are part of any plurality or even strong minority with your views though.
Genocide means physical destruction or taking away children with the intent to eradicate an identifiable group. The RCMP engaged in genocide when they took away the children of First Nations with stated purpose to "kill the Indian in the child" (as a certain former Prime Minister put it), but nothing in that comment was pro-genocidal. You on the other hand are a self-admitted racist right winger. How would you like it if Canada let you stay lost? How about you come to Canada like ever other immigrant and earn your citizenship.

FYI, there are two forms of birthright citizenship: jus soli (by birth on the territory) and jus sanguinis (by birth to a citizen parent). I don't know what politicians you talk to but I haven't heard of any plans to get rid of it. Without, birthright citizenship, there would only be citizens by naturalization.
 
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weofikl

Full Member
Jan 26, 2017
34
3
Genocide means physical destruction or taking away children with the intent to eradicate an identifiable group. The RCMP engaged in genocide when they took away the children of First Nations with stated purpose to "kill the Indian in the child" (as a certain former Prime Minister put it), but nothing in that comment was pro-genocidal. You on the other hand are a self-admitted racist right winger. How would you like it if Canada let you stay lost? How about you come to Canada like ever other immigrant and earn your citizenship.

FYI, there are two forms of birthright citizenship: jus soli (by birth on the territory) and jus sanguinis (by birth to a citizen parent). I don't know what politicians you talk to but I haven't heard of any plans to get rid of it. Without, birthright citizenship, there would only be citizens by naturalization.
Useful comment. I'm Inuit btw. I have citizenship already thank you very much. First Nations is a ridiculous and racist term in itself.

>Genocide means physical destruction or taking away children

That's your definition. This is the real defintiion:

genocide. noun. geno·cide ˈje-nə-ˌsīd. : acts committed with intent to partially or wholly destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. also : the crime of committing such an act.

I'm right. You're wrong. This is black and white.

>FYI, there are two forms of birthright citizenship: jus soli (by birth on the territory) and jus sanguinis

Colloquially it is easier to refer to jus soli as birthright citizenship, but I concede it can be used the other way too. Usually in the context of, 'it's my birthright', and, 'it's my god given birthright'. Citizenship should be restricted to stop the separation of families and allow deportation of economic migrants breaking immigration law. It's not fair to deport parents if the child is a citizen. The concept of anchor babies encourages terrible situations.

Canada does not need to jump through as many hoops as the yanks in changing it. There's really no excuse.
 

xf2278389393

Star Member
Aug 27, 2023
75
40
Useful comment. I'm Inuit btw.
Don't you mean you are Inuk? Inuit is plural. Just to confirm, you are born second-generation abroad Canadian? Are you registered with an Inuit organization?

I am certainly not oblivious to the suffering that was imposed on the Intuit due to Canada's colonization and territorial expansion. I worked with Inuit involved in the criminal justice system in Nunavut for a bit. As part of that work, I spoke to many Inuit accused and witnesses. I also had the chance to speak with an Inuk elder who works as an interpreter from whom I learned quite a bit about the history of colonization of Canada's newest territory as he had lived it. Regardless of their circumstances, I found that they are all warm, welcoming individuals, who sometimes just want someone to listen and maybe be offered some help with their struggles. Nobody seemed interested in any kind of right wing politics. The Nunavut Legislative Assembly is free of any political parties and very collaborative, and I did not observe any kind of ideology when I was sitting in on the proceedings as an observer.

I am not taking back what I said just because you happen to reveal after the fact that you are Inuit. It had nothing to do with you being Inuit but everything to do with you espousing an ideology that is foreign to the Inuit. Nothing I said was personal against you and I do think that all indigenous groups connected to Canadian territory should be able to have Canadian citizenship regardless of where they are born, which is still not always the case today.
I have citizenship already thank you very much.
I thought your citizenship proof application was on hold since the stay of the section 52 declaration was extended to August? If the politicians you talked to had their way, you'd probably never get your citizenship. If the Conservatives or PPC came to power tomorrow, they'd be passing some new bill that would see you being deported. A lot of people these days have this tendencies to just buy into some supposedly "common sense" idea that some right wing demagogue brought up, without properly thinking things through. Right wing is a very dangerous ideology and you better think twice what you wish for.
First Nations is a ridiculous and racist term in itself.
Indigenous groups themselves came up with it fairly recently to replace the outdated and far more obviously racist term "Indian" as used to refer to indigenous peoples when the term refers, etymologically, to people originating from India. Of course, it's much more sensible to refer to Algonquin, Cree, etc. when possible but it's just not possible to enumerate them all every time when you mean the people who were the original inhabitants of Canada and that's why First Nations is used as short hand. Of course, Inuit were also the among the original inhabitants of Canada and so I do somewhat question why they often seem to be mentioned separately and last as some sort of afterthought, as if they came later on like the Metis.
genocide. noun. geno·cide ˈje-nə-ˌsīd. : acts committed with intent to partially or wholly destroy a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. also : the crime of committing such an act.
That's a copy-and-paste dictionary definition from who knows what dictionary. I am not saying it's per se wrong but it is incomplete. Let me enlighten you.

Let's start with the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act, S.C. 2000, c. 24. That is a federal law in Canada. In subsection 4(3) of that Act it has a definition for genocide that is as follows:
genocide means an act or omission committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, an identifiable group of persons, as such, that, at the time and in the place of its commission, constitutes genocide according to customary international law or conventional international law or by virtue of its being criminal according to the general principles of law recognized by the community of nations, whether or not it constitutes a contravention of the law in force at the time and in the place of its commission.
It's clear from this that genocide is an act or omission that is specified as genocide by international law. So let's go to the United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and see what international law has to say about what acts or omissions constitute genocide:
The popular understanding of what constitutes genocide tends to be broader than the content of the norm under international law. Article II of the Genocide Convention contains a narrow definition of the crime of genocide, which includes two main elements:
  1. A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"; and
  2. A physical element, which includes the following five acts, enumerated exhaustively:
    • Killing members of the group
    • Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
    • Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part
    • Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
    • Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
SOURCE: https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

So there we go. Genocide has a physical element. Permitting immigration is not a listed physical element and since the list is exhaustive, it can't constitute genocide. Even then, at present, immigration has valid purposes, such as improving the economy, family reunification, education and complying with Canada's international obligations, that have nothing to do with destroying any person, let alone a protected group. Canada is a multi-cultural society of many nationalities. Immigration cannot destroy it, only make it better.
I'm right. You're wrong. This is black and white.
You probably missed a few learning opportunities in life with that line.
Colloquially it is easier to refer to jus soli as birthright citizenship [...]
It might be more common to hear of the term being used this way in Canada, the US, Mexico and most South American countries, simply because it is the dominant form of citizenship acquisition at birth in the Americas. However, when you look in the citizenship and nationality laws of many European countries, you will find that they refer to citizenship by birth in the context of children receiving the citizenship of their parents at the time of birth.
Citizenship should be restricted to stop the separation of families and allow deportation of economic migrants breaking immigration law. It's not fair to deport parents if the child is a citizen. The concept of anchor babies encourages terrible situations.
There are no anchor babies, that's a complete myth; parents don't get to stay just because their minor children are Canadian. There is also no separation of citizen children from their foreign nationals parents. What happens if a parent or parents with children is detained for immigration reasons is that the children are housed with their parent in the immigration holding facility in a family friendly environment, and if the parent(s) is deported, the children, even if they are Canadian citizens, leave Canada with their parent(s) at the same time. The parent(s) may, of course, make other arrangements through relatives or children's services, but that is entirely up to the parent(s). Under no circumstances would there be a forced separation of families. In the rare instances when separation does occur, one typically sees a parent who is Canadian and another other who isn't and, for whatever reason, the Canadian parent can't sponsor the other parent and it's not feasible for the Canadian parent to move abroad - and then the child would have Canadian citizenship anyways because they have a Canadian parent.
Canada does not need to jump through as many hoops as the yanks in changing it. There's really no excuse.
I don't think it would be as easy as you think and certain constitutional principles, including section 15 of the Charter, may be interpreted as requiring Canada to give citizenship to individuals born here, with only the exception for individuals not subject to Canadian jurisdiction due their parents being accredited foreign representatives. There is a recent federal court ruling that unequivocally says that individuals born in Canada are of Canadian national origin. To restrict immigration in the manner you are proposing is elitist and very un-Canadian. While I do agree that the indigenous peoples should be consulted and be able to weigh in on Canadian immigration policies, there is no majority, let alone a significant minority, of them that wants to stop immigration or reduce it in any significant way.
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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Indigenous groups themselves came up with it fairly recently to replace the outdated and far more obviously racist term "Indian"... and that's why First Nations is used as short hand ... Of course, Inuit were also the among the original inhabitants of Canada and so I do somewhat question why they often seem to be mentioned separately and last as some sort of afterthought, as if they came later on like the Metis.
I won't claim to be an expert but the answer, I believe, is historical/legal - deriving from the same history that Inuit are treated differently under the Indian Act, e.g. they are typically not formally 'Status Indians' under law, and eg the Assembly of First Nations (itself descending from a previous organization that used the term Indian) doesn't include them either. [*Using the term Indian here advisedly because those are the terms still used in law, as far as I'm aware - and if I'm not up to date, mea culpa.]

So in relatively simplistic terms, "First Nations" (capitalized) is a term formally related to the previous term, which itself never applied to Inuit (colloquially or formally), even if it seems intuitive that they would have been a 'first nation' (lower case). It's comparable to the Métis, I believe, only in the sense that they were also not formally a nation/people covered by the Indian Act.*

That history is a lot more complicated than just the legal/colonial of course - a reflection that the history of the Inuit is actually quite distinct and separate from the indigenous peoples further south.

*There may be benefits or tax treatments that are extended to Inuk individuals comparable to those available to Status Indians, I don't know.

Any mistakes or misstatements here my own.
 

xf2278389393

Star Member
Aug 27, 2023
75
40
I won't claim to be an expert but the answer, I believe, is historical/legal - deriving from the same history that Inuit are treated differently under the Indian Act, e.g. they are typically not formally 'Status Indians' under law, and eg the Assembly of First Nations (itself descending from a previous organization that used the term Indian) doesn't include them either. [*Using the term Indian here advisedly because those are the terms still used in law, as far as I'm aware - and if I'm not up to date, mea culpa.]

So in relatively simplistic terms, "First Nations" (capitalized) is a term formally related to the previous term, which itself never applied to Inuit (colloquially or formally), even if it seems intuitive that they would have been a 'first nation' (lower case). It's comparable to the Métis, I believe, only in the sense that they were also not formally a nation/people covered by the Indian Act.*

That history is a lot more complicated than just the legal/colonial of course - a reflection that the history of the Inuit is actually quite distinct and separate from the indigenous peoples further south.

*There may be benefits or tax treatments that are extended to Inuk individuals comparable to those available to Status Indians, I don't know.

Any mistakes or misstatements here my own.
History, the term "Indian" did apply to and include the Inuit, and is synonymous with the term "aboriginal peoples" according to the Supreme Court of Canada:
[35] The term “Indian” or “Indians” in the constitutional context, therefore, has two meanings: a broad meaning, as used in s. 91(24), that includes both Métis and Inuit and can be equated with the term “aboriginal peoples of Canada” used in s. 35 [...]
Daniels v. Canada (Indian Affairs and Northern Development), 2016 SCC 12 (CanLII), [2016] 1 SCR 99

"Status Indian" under the Indian Act only refers to those tribes that are recognized as bands under the Act. Recognition was often contingent on a treaty and so many Algonquins, for example, still lack status cards.

From the early colonists' perspective, there was no difference between the Inuit and other North American "Indians". Nowadays though, "Indian" is often conflated with "status Indian" but that change in meaning is relatively recent.