My daughters was born in the outside Canada in 2006, and 2011. My wife is not Canadian citizen, I am Canadian through immigration process and got my citizen in 2005. I would like to ask for the future if my daughters have their baby birth outside Canada, what is the updated rules for this matter? will they get the citizen automatically or what?
2nd generation child born
- Thread starter hilu75
- Start date
The answering isn't known yet. You will need to wait until the updated rules become available.
That any parent, who has citizenship by descent, needs to have physically been present in Canada for 1095 days before the birth of their foreign-born child to be able pass citizenship to said child.
Interested to know the outcome of this rule. A theoretical scenario: a child is born to Canadian parents on a country that practices jus sanguinis. If Canada won't recognize the child as Canadian citizen, the child will become a stateless person?
I've personally seen/know of a few cases, not specific to Canada, and can say with some confidence 'it depends.' Or, if you prefer, the question is under-specified - which countries and very specific circumstances matter.
Is it hypothetically possible? Possibly.
The reason, or one reason anyway, is that many of the legal set-ups in many countries do have more (or less) developed 'back-up' scenarios. One being UN conventions where countries commit to not allowing such cases to occur (usually understood to mean on their own territories but also sometimes w/r/t eg children of their citizens), some countries write those rules into law, etc.
But: not every possible scenario can be imagined in advance, and the regimes/rules of different countries collide in unexpected ways. And officials in different countries have different levels of authority and flexibility in application (discretionary authority) or conversely tradition of very strict attention to the rules. And in real life, officials also have their own idea of who they think 'should' take care of the situation; even if their own laws actually state pretty clearly (eg that a child born there without statehood 'must' receive citizenship), getting them to do it may not be easy.
In your hypothetical above, I can say that one country I spent time in would absolutely dig heels in and not issue passport (despite good laws on paper!) simply because their officials would assess that it's a child of Canadian citizens, Canada should deal with it. And I'm pretty confident Canadian officials would eventually get it done, somehow. (I have a hunch I know in broad terms how a determined consular official plus an IRCC senior person could get it done, too - IF the parents stipulated to a few conditions).
But details would really depend on circumstances. The case I knew of better had such a convoluted set of facts I won't try to detail, except to say ... wouldn't apply to Canada. Couldn't.
Now back to the current situation: quite possibly it will reduce the likelihood of such cases even further, so way too hypothetical to guess, either.
If the child is not born a Canadian citizen under the law, then the parents need to move to Canada and sponsor the child for PR. Once in Canada, then they can apply for citizenship. And then here comes another Charter lawsuit about how there remains two classes of citizens again...
I hope parents aren't stupid enough to not know the citizenship law of the country they birth their child in though...
what if the parent couldn't stay the 1095 days, however the mother give birth for her baby inside Canada, will the new born get citizen in this case?
What if the Canadian parents travelled before a pandemic similar to covid, and the wife is 1 month pregnant before travelling. All travels suspended globally. They are now stuck in the country they visited until the wife gives birth? Theoretically again, of course?If the child is not born a Canadian citizen under the law, then the parents need to move to Canada and sponsor the child for PR. Once in Canada, then they can apply for citizenship. And then here comes another Charter lawsuit about how there remains two classes of citizens again...
I hope parents aren't stupid enough to not know the citizenship law of the country they birth their child in though...
A far out possibility, but still possible. Sorry, the software tester in me kicked in
Canada follows jus solis. All children born inside Canada gets citizenship regardless of their parent’s citizenship. I have a colleague, recently landed immigrant. Ten months after arriving in Canada gave birth to their second child. Baby became citizen before them.
The issue here (resolvable by consular officials/IRCC with good will) is that the child doesn't have a passport, and can't get one, because no citizenship yet.
[IRCC/GAC can probably issue some sort of travel document, if the country of birth will accept it for exit purposes.]
But: the parents need to return to Canada for this to work. If they refuse for some reason - Canada can't help this way (and GAC/IRCC might at that point shrug, or the admin equivalent of that.)
Surprises happen; it's easy to blame parents as stupid but it's not always obvious. In one of the situations I'm aware of, it really wasn't the 'fault' of anyone save the country of citizenship of parents, which had very specific rules, a legalistic approach, a vaguely political tinge to the parentage issue, and a gap that wasn't known/couldn't (arguably) be known by parents, a collision of different rules. In the end it got resolved by parents' country updating their rules - took a fair amount of time. There were probably a couple dozen professionals aware of the issue at all (had it even occurred to the parents), and even those professionals would likely have missed the other colliding rule that combined to make the child stateless (for a time).I hope parents aren't stupid enough to not know the citizenship law of the country they birth their child in though...
Plus (speaking personally) the 2nd generation rule - I was surprised by it after Harper's government enacted it. I simply couldn't imagine it could apply to me (I'm a 7th gen Canadian, the only one born abroad, etc). We did look at having my spouse come to Canada - not feasible was our estimation, the healthcare system not made for it, and it wouldn't ahve worked anyway after all (long story). Granted, child did get citizenship in country of birth, but would've been furthest thing from my mind.
I wouldn't even call that a far out possibility, but just from simple perspective that pregnant women with complications of any kind may not be able to travel, for as long as five months or so.What if the Canadian parents travelled before a pandemic similar to covid, and the wife is 1 month pregnant before travelling. All travels suspended globally. They are now stuck in the country they visited until the wife gives birth? Theoretically again, of course?
A far out possibility, but still possible. Sorry, the software tester in me kicked in
The other part I find offensive is the idea that people should just travel to Canada to give birth. The Canadian health care system is really NOT designed for fly in births, and that's before even considering the issue of money to pay for it, leaving other children and family for months, jobs, etc.
We absolutely could have afforded the fees (good worldwide insurance), but even before pandemic getting to see doctors or make arrangements was not that easy. It just wasn't practical.
The idea people should just 'go to Canada to have their kids' is deeply uninformed.
In this case, the child has citizenship regardless of who the parents are and where they came from.
Under the proposed rule, as long as the parent had been physically present in Canada for 1095 days before the child is born, then the child would be a Canadian citizen; in this case, if the parent was in Canada for 1095 days before travelling, then the foreign-born child will be a Canadian citizen.What if the Canadian parents travelled before a pandemic similar to covid, and the wife is 1 month pregnant before travelling. All travels suspended globally. They are now stuck in the country they visited until the wife gives birth? Theoretically again, of course?
A far out possibility, but still possible. Sorry, the software tester in me kicked in
Unfortunately, that is how the law works, sanctions from noncompliance. If the parent does not meet the presence test, then the child does not inherit the parent's citizenship at birth and is not entitled to a passport.
It is incumbent on the parents to know the rules. Yes, it is the discretion of the government to grant extraordinary exceptions from unavoidable situations, but now with the proposed rules there will be a pathway. On that note, I don't see who else but the parents to blame. Countries are free to make up their own citizenship law with no regard to how they would impact with other countries' laws. If a child is not born a Canadian citizen and/or stateless because the parents simply did not meet the presence test, they can appeal to the Minister. But in my opinion, if the Minister approves the appeal and gives the child a grant, this could create a loophole precedent to circumvent the presence test.