LeonLeon said:
The dates are in english but the text around it is arabic like the stamp below. Do you still suggest that the remainder stamps to be translated.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/UAE_Entry_Stamp.jpg
How do I calculate days of presence in Canada for PR Card renewal
- Thread starter wilbur71
- Start date
The dates are in english but the text around it is arabic like the stamp below. Do you still suggest that the remainder stamps to be translated.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/UAE_Entry_Stamp.jpg
Hello
My parents landed on 26th Dec 2018 ("PR since" date on the PR card) and expiry date on the PR card is 15th May 2024.
They got around 4-5 more months than "last 5 years" by definition on the PR card.
Question - should I calculate their 730 days from strictly last 5 years (i.e. 15th May 2024 - 5 years)?
OR
Will it be 730 days between 26th Dec 2018 and 15th May 2024?
I could not find clarification of this on the CIC website. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Dax
My parents landed on 26th Dec 2018 ("PR since" date on the PR card) and expiry date on the PR card is 15th May 2024.
They got around 4-5 more months than "last 5 years" by definition on the PR card.
Question - should I calculate their 730 days from strictly last 5 years (i.e. 15th May 2024 - 5 years)?
OR
Will it be 730 days between 26th Dec 2018 and 15th May 2024?
I could not find clarification of this on the CIC website. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Dax
Why do you want to make the calculation? For example, you may want to renew your PR card up to nine months before the expiry date, then you count the 5 years (after you landed) from the date you sign the application.
Residency Obligation compliance is always based on a five year period of time. First five years, since date of landing, or the previous five years if the calculation is made on a date after the fifth year anniversary of the date of landing.
Date a PR card expires is NOT relevant.
The five years that count, the relevant period of time in the calculation, is based on the date of the calculation. Typically that is the date a PR is arriving at a Port-of-Entry or the date the PR makes (signs) a PR card application.
If they arrive at a PoE, or make a PR card application, prior to December 26, 2023, the calculation of PR Residency Obligation compliance will be based on the first five years, counting days in Canada so far plus credit for days left on the calendar until the fifth year anniversary, December 26, 2023.
For example, if they arrived at a PoE today, so the calculation is made as of today, September 26, 2022, it will be the total number of days IN Canada between December 26, 2018 and today, PLUS approximately 456 days (approximately 96 days left in this year, and another 360 next year up to December 26).
Note 1: During the first five years it can be easier to count days outside Canada. The PR is still in RO compliance as long as they have not been outside Canada more than 1095 days since landing. (Or, said another way, if a PR is outside Canada more than 1095 days after landing and before the fifth year anniversary of landing, they are then in breach of the RO.)
Note 2: PR card applications can be made prior to the fifth year anniversary of landing, with credit for days left on the calendar until the fifth year anniversary; however, better to have actually been present IN Canada at least 730 days before making the application.
Thank you for clarifying this. So, essentially, the 5 year window is 26th Dec 2018 to 26th Dec 2023. I need 730 days in this window to be able to comply with Residency Obligation and get PR extension/renewal. That's a good clarification, because I was trying to make 730 days until 15th May 2024 (PR expiry). I am still unclear why PR card expiry is not relevant because technically I am still allowed to enter Canada as PR until 15th May 2024.
Can you please let me know - if I make PR extension application on 15th May 2024 (current PR card expiry), then the window to be considered for calculation will be 5 prior years i.e. 15th May 2019 to 15th May 2024. If I have 730 days in this window, I am still eligible for PR renewal?
Are you aware of any concession made by IRCC for the time people had to be away from Canada in Covid-19?
Yes.
No. For those that need to make H&C requests (eg they are out of compliance and - for example - need to apply for a PRTD), covid will be considered as would other extenuating circumstances (illness, inability to travel, etc). But there is no guarantee and no 'blanket' policy or concession made specifically for covid. There is zero indication any such policy would apply to renewing a PR card.
Note: There is NO extension or renewal of PR status. PR status does not expire. PR cards expire, more like when a passport expires (citizenship does not expire when a passport expires), not like a drivers license.
So, essentially, the 5 year window is 26th Dec 2018 to 26th Dec 2023. I need 730 days in this window to be able to comply with Residency Obligation and get PR extension/renewal.
You reference the FIRST five year period for calculating compliance with the Residency Obligation. It applies anytime RO compliance is calculated for a date prior to the fifth year anniversary of landing.
After the fifth year anniversary of landing, which here would be Dec 26, 2023, the five year period for calculating compliance with the RO is the five years preceding the date the calculation is made. Every day is a new calculation.
RO compliance calculations are typically made as of the following dates:
-- date of arrival at a Port-of-Entry (if examined for RO compliance)
-- date of application for a PR Travel Document
-- date of application to renew or otherwise obtain a PR card
-- date of any other examination by CBSA or IRCC to make a Residency Determination (not common)
EXAMPLES (based on December 26, 2018 landing date):
-- If the PR arrives at Port-of-Entry November 26, 2023, RO compliance will be based on number of days IN Canada from December 26, 2018 to November 26, 2023, PLUS 30 (days left on calendar until December 26, 2023)
-- If the PR comes to Canada, and then applies for a new PR card November 26, 2023, RO compliance likewise will be based on number of days IN Canada from December 26, 2018 to November 26, 2023, PLUS 30; HOWEVER,
-- -- If after applying for a new PR card the PR leaves Canada, and is returning to Canada April 17, 2024, if examined about RO compliance at the PoE, the calculation will be based on days in Canada between April 17, 2019 and April 17, 2024 (five year period preceding date of arrival at the PoE).
I am still unclear why PR card expiry is not relevant because technically I am still allowed to enter Canada as PR until 15th May 2024.
Technically you are allowed to enter Canada "as PR" whenever you come, whether that is before or after May 15, 2024. PR status does not expire. You are still a Canadian, a PR, unless there has been a formal adjudication terminating your Canadian status, or you become a citizen, or you formally renounce PR status.
With some exceptions (such as for U.S. citizens), a PR needs to have a valid PR card or a valid PR Travel Document to board a flight to Canada. But, if the PR has a means to travel to Canada otherwise (many can travel to a land crossing via the U.S.), they will still be "allowed to enter Canada as PR," and it does not matter how long the PR card has been expired . . . even if it expired years ago. Of course if the PR is in breach of the RO, that is, the PR is inadmissible, they are at risk border officials will follow the 44(1) Report process leading to the issuance of Removal Order (PR will still be allowed to enter Canada and can appeal the Removal Order).
Are you aware of any concession made by IRCC for the time people had to be away from Canada in Covid-19?
Not sure what you mean by "concession." Whoever is making the Residency Determination, whether that is CBSA officers at a PoE, or IRCC officials assessing RO compliance in relation to a PR card application, if the PR is in breach, that is not in compliance with the RO, those officials will consider any and all reasons why the PR did not return to Canada sooner, and then make a determination if there are sufficient H&C factors to justify allowing the PR to keep PR status despite the RO breach. So of course the impact of Covid will be considered. How much weight it has in favour of allowing H&C relief, however, is very difficult to predict, recognizing that there are many, many other factors considered in evaluating the H&C case (number of days in breach looming very large). Best guess: this factor already has declining weight; since Canada is dropping border control measures related to Covid in just a few days, PRs returning after October 1 should be cognizant that there is a real risk this factor might not have much positive weight in the H&C assessment.
Generally it is risky to make a PR card application relying on H&C relief. Better to stay put in Canada until in compliance with the RO (for many this means staying for two straight years) before making a PR card application.
Can you please let me know - if I make PR extension application on 15th May 2024 (current PR card expiry), then the window to be considered for calculation will be 5 prior years i.e. 15th May 2019 to 15th May 2024. If I have 730 days in this window, I am still eligible for PR renewal?
As @armoured noted, the simple answer is yes. So long as you are asking about PR card renewal. Again, PR status does not expire and does not need to be renewed.
The latter can be important. As long as you are IN Canada, there is no rush to apply for a new PR card. A PR's status does not depend on possessing a valid PR card. Particularly if you have your SIN and have obtained health care coverage and a drivers license (typically, with some exceptions, a PR needs to present a valid PR card to qualify for these), you only need a new PR card if you will be traveling abroad.
Hello, can you please tell me, I have miscalculated the presence days 5 years instead of the days mentioned in the card (the day I landed, the day I left). I am missing 10 days, but, unfortunately, I had serious problems back at home. How critical these 10 days are? Or should I reapply for a new PR card and calculate days from the day 1? Can someone recommend me a proper lawyer? Thank you
Missing 10 days is like missing a 10am flight showing up at 10.30 at the airport. Just not good enough..
I do not understand what you are saying. You are either ten days short, or can't account for ten days, or something.
Do yourself a favour: construct a simple timeline (day became a PR, PR card expiry whether you are in Canada now, how many days outside of Canada from day of landing until today / days outside of Canada in last five years from today (if those numbers are not the same).
And then if you want assistance, post that timeline.
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So I suffered from pandemic and miscalculated the days. Can I apply for the new PR for additional 20 days and then immediately apply for citizenship? Can I combine 3 years within 5 period time from 2 PR cards?
Thank you!
and a post from August 15, 2020:
Somewhat like @armoured I too am unable to get a clear idea from your posts as to what your situation is.
At this stage, for purposes of PR obligations, including the Residency Obligation, the Covid pandemic is largely if not totally irrelevant.
Ignore the trolling. Being short of meeting the PR RO is not at all like missing a flight.
Main thing is whether you are currently IN Canada.
If you are currently in Canada, and your concern is that you are in breach of the PR RO, relax. Don't leave Canada until you have stayed long enough to be in compliance with the RO. Don't apply for a new PR card until you have stayed long enough to be in compliance with the RO. A PR who is IN Canada does not need to get a new PR card.
Not having a valid PR card does not change what your status is. You are still a PR.
And as long as you remain in Canada it is OK to not have a valid PR card.
If you are currently outside Canada, and you are in breach of the RO (which would mean you have been outside Canada more than 1095 days since the date you became a PR), the best approach to saving your PR status is to get to Canada TO STAY as soon as possible. There is a risk of problems, but if you are only a little short of meeting the RO that should give you good odds of things going OK . . . but the sooner you come to Canada the better your odds.
Calculating RO compliance:
Easy way to calculate RO compliance is to do a rough draft of the PR card application and be sure to completely and accurately complete question 5.5 in which you need to precisely report the dates you left and entered Canada. The form will automatically total the number of days outside Canada, and that will be accurate if ALL the dates you left and returned are filled in accurately. If that total is more than 1095 days, you are in breach of the RO. If so, wait to make the PR card application when you have stayed in Canada long enough the total number of days outside Canada, in the application form, is less than 1095.
If you have been outside Canada more than 1095 days since the date you became a PR, to get back into RO compliance you will need to be IN Canada and to STAY IN Canada at least 730 days counting only days within the previous five years as of whatever day you do the counting.
The date your first PR card expires is NOT relevant.
Calculating eligibility for citizenship:
For a PR who was not in Canada before becoming a PR, a PR who otherwise meets the requirements for citizenship (language, no prohibitions, knowledge of Canada, and so on) can apply for citizenship once they have been IN Canada at least 1095 days within the five year period ending the day before they make the application. But it is prudent to wait at least a month more (being short of meeting the physical presence requirement for citizenship is like being late for a flight).
Dates on the PR card are NOT relevant.
MOSTLY . . . if you are currently IN Canada, no need to worry. Stay. Do the RO compliance calculation. Apply for a new PR card ONLY when you have been IN Canada enough to meet the RO. Again, if you are IN Canada you can stay and there is no rush to get a new PR card. (Some PRs go many years without getting a new PR card.)
If you are currently outside Canada, make the move here, to STAY, as soon as you can. Then worry about when to apply for a new PR card after you get here.
For clarity:
Note that the maximum number of days is the same in Box C and Box E. The maximum number of days in both is 1827 because that is the total number of days in a five year period if the five year period includes two leap years; it will be 1826 if the five year time period includes only one leap year.
Box C is always the five preceding years (and is 1827 if that five year time period includes February 29 for two leap years, 1826 if it includes just one leap year).
What is entered in Box E, in contrast, will depend on whether the date the application is being made is more or less than five years after the date of landing. Box E will show the total number of days within the eligibility period that the PR has been a PR. (For PRs entitled to credit for days in Canada prior to becoming a PR, that information is entered in a separate part of the presence calculation.)
Example for a PR who landed August 14, 2020 and who is applying for citizenship August 23, 2025 (more than five years after landing), Box C and Box E will both have 1826.
In contrast, if the PR who landed August 14, 2020 applies for citizenship August 23, 2024, then Box E will be 1470 days (if my arithmetic is correct, noting I could be off by a day, the 1470 days is based on counting the days included from August 14, 2020 through August 22, 2024, which is the day before the application is signed).
Note: edit to revise number of days but my arithmetic might still be off.
All That Said . . . if you are currently short meeting the PR Residency Obligation, that means you have been outside Canada more than 1095 days since August 14, 2020, which in turn will mean you will not meet the presence requirement for citizenship for at least another two years.
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PR cards don't matter.
You can apply for citizenship if you meet the requirement. (having a PR card or not DO NOT matter. you only need a PR card to travel back to Canada if you are outside)
From the day of the application count back 5 years and see if you meet the physical presence days inside Canada (with buffer days or months in case of miscalculation).