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Need guidance on H&C appeal in PR card renewal (borderline on RO requirement)

ParulB

Star Member
Mar 27, 2017
91
7
App. Filed.......
08-06-2017
AOR Received.
08-06-2017
Hi All,

I am seeking clarity here because my personal search on various sites have left me confused. I became PR on 24 April 2018, and lived in Canada for 3 years until 1 April 2021 (inclusive of this day because I flew out this day in evening) and took vacation during this period for 28 days so roughly 2 years 11 months and some days. I was incorrect about the Residency obligations understanding, I thought you need to be in country 730 per 5 year period, and not that it's literally the time immediately before the date of application, and not the time from becoming PR. On 2 April 2021, I returned to home country for care taking of my father who had been diagnosed with a rare auto immune disease and stayed here since, I have not been back. Since then we have had a couple of more tragedies during COVID and it's just been never ending struggle. My PR card expired in July 2023 and I was making plans to apply for PRTD and visit Canada but it all derailed because I myself had an unexpected health complication which led to emergency surgery + post op recovery period. I am only now feeling well enough to get my affairs in order. I applied for PRTD yesterday and as of that calculation I still have 45 buffer days before I am out to compliance. But I am very nervous about the probability of getting a PRTD within 45 days. The official website says wait time is 2-8 weeks. Also, I cannot return to Canada as of yet. I am hoping to save my PR so I can return in future in time to still complete my 2 years obligation before my next PR card expires, assuming I get it, because both my parents are in tough spot health wise and they will not be joining me in Canada. So my questions are:

1. What is the track record like for H&C cases in general? Do they get approved at all? Is it tough? Is there better chance if PR is falling short of few days and there's proof PRTD was applied when candidate was compliant?
2. Because my break happened later, I don't think staying in Canada helps my case? ..because just as I will gain new days, I will keep losing the same amount of days from the beginning of the five year period? If so is H&C the best option? I cannot stay in Canada for too long right now as I can't leave my father unattended for extended period, I am the primary decision maker in all his doctor appointments etc, its not something I can do without physical presence.
3. I do have US tourist visa but I don't know anyone there. Is this option still possible for someone who is just flying to US with no other means like private vehicle?

Also - more of a general knowledge question. It seems that 100% of the process of applying PR is now online, so is the only reason they ask for physical presence is to ensure person is in Canada when applying, or are there any activities that are to be conducted physically?

Please suggest best course of action according to you based on above circumstances. Thank you very much in advance for replying.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,938
22,177
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hi All,

I am seeking clarity here because my personal search on various sites have left me confused. I became PR on 24 April 2018, and lived in Canada for 3 years until 1 April 2021 (inclusive of this day because I flew out this day in evening) and took vacation during this period for 28 days so roughly 2 years 11 months and some days. I was incorrect about the Residency obligations understanding, I thought you need to be in country 730 per 5 year period, and not that it's literally the time immediately before the date of application, and not the time from becoming PR. On 2 April 2021, I returned to home country for care taking of my father who had been diagnosed with a rare auto immune disease and stayed here since, I have not been back. Since then we have had a couple of more tragedies during COVID and it's just been never ending struggle. My PR card expired in July 2023 and I was making plans to apply for PRTD and visit Canada but it all derailed because I myself had an unexpected health complication which led to emergency surgery + post op recovery period. I am only now feeling well enough to get my affairs in order. I applied for PRTD yesterday and as of that calculation I still have 45 buffer days before I am out to compliance. But I am very nervous about the probability of getting a PRTD within 45 days. The official website says wait time is 2-8 weeks. Also, I cannot return to Canada as of yet. I am hoping to save my PR so I can return in future in time to still complete my 2 years obligation before my next PR card expires, assuming I get it, because both my parents are in tough spot health wise and they will not be joining me in Canada. So my questions are:

1. What is the track record like for H&C cases in general? Do they get approved at all? Is it tough? Is there better chance if PR is falling short of few days and there's proof PRTD was applied when candidate was compliant?
2. Because my break happened later, I don't think staying in Canada helps my case? ..because just as I will gain new days, I will keep losing the same amount of days from the beginning of the five year period? If so is H&C the best option? I cannot stay in Canada for too long right now as I can't leave my father unattended for extended period, I am the primary decision maker in all his doctor appointments etc, its not something I can do without physical presence.
3. I do have US tourist visa but I don't know anyone there. Is this option still possible for someone who is just flying to US with no other means like private vehicle?

Also - more of a general knowledge question. It seems that 100% of the process of applying PR is now online, so is the only reason they ask for physical presence is to ensure person is in Canada when applying, or are there any activities that are to be conducted physically?

Please suggest best course of action according to you based on above circumstances. Thank you very much in advance for replying.
1. If you are still in compliance then the PRTD should be approved. For H&C cases, some are approved and some are refused.
2. This question is confusing. Are you asking about renewing your PR card once you are in Canada? You can certainly try to do this under H&C and without meeting RO. These application generally take quite a bit longer to process and you also want to remain in Canada during processing. So you'd want to be prepared to be able to stay in Canada for many months, potentially the better part of a year or even longer. Some H&C PR card renewal applications are approved and some are refused. There aren't any stats available.
3) Yes, you can fly to the US and reenter Canada through a land border without the PRTD.
 
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scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,938
22,177
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hi All,

I am seeking clarity here because my personal search on various sites have left me confused. I became PR on 24 April 2018, and lived in Canada for 3 years until 1 April 2021 (inclusive of this day because I flew out this day in evening) and took vacation during this period for 28 days so roughly 2 years 11 months and some days. I was incorrect about the Residency obligations understanding, I thought you need to be in country 730 per 5 year period, and not that it's literally the time immediately before the date of application, and not the time from becoming PR. On 2 April 2021, I returned to home country for care taking of my father who had been diagnosed with a rare auto immune disease and stayed here since, I have not been back. Since then we have had a couple of more tragedies during COVID and it's just been never ending struggle. My PR card expired in July 2023 and I was making plans to apply for PRTD and visit Canada but it all derailed because I myself had an unexpected health complication which led to emergency surgery + post op recovery period. I am only now feeling well enough to get my affairs in order. I applied for PRTD yesterday and as of that calculation I still have 45 buffer days before I am out to compliance. But I am very nervous about the probability of getting a PRTD within 45 days. The official website says wait time is 2-8 weeks. Also, I cannot return to Canada as of yet. I am hoping to save my PR so I can return in future in time to still complete my 2 years obligation before my next PR card expires, assuming I get it, because both my parents are in tough spot health wise and they will not be joining me in Canada. So my questions are:

1. What is the track record like for H&C cases in general? Do they get approved at all? Is it tough? Is there better chance if PR is falling short of few days and there's proof PRTD was applied when candidate was compliant?
2. Because my break happened later, I don't think staying in Canada helps my case? ..because just as I will gain new days, I will keep losing the same amount of days from the beginning of the five year period? If so is H&C the best option? I cannot stay in Canada for too long right now as I can't leave my father unattended for extended period, I am the primary decision maker in all his doctor appointments etc, its not something I can do without physical presence.
3. I do have US tourist visa but I don't know anyone there. Is this option still possible for someone who is just flying to US with no other means like private vehicle?

Also - more of a general knowledge question. It seems that 100% of the process of applying PR is now online, so is the only reason they ask for physical presence is to ensure person is in Canada when applying, or are there any activities that are to be conducted physically?

Please suggest best course of action according to you based on above circumstances. Thank you very much in advance for replying.
To answer your last question, you may be asked to pick up your PR card in person. They are not always mailed and sometimes IRCC wants to see you have remained in Canada after applying.

Make sure you are physically in Canada at the time you submit your application to renew your PR card.
 
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ParulB

Star Member
Mar 27, 2017
91
7
App. Filed.......
08-06-2017
AOR Received.
08-06-2017
To answer your last question, you may be asked to pick up your PR card in person. They are not always mailed and sometimes IRCC wants to see you have remained in Canada after applying.

Make sure you are physically in Canada at the time you submit your application to renew your PR card.
Yes of course, I am planning to fly as soon as I get PTRD, I was asking more from the view of arranging my activities and be aware of what I need to do there in person.
 

ParulB

Star Member
Mar 27, 2017
91
7
App. Filed.......
08-06-2017
AOR Received.
08-06-2017
1. If you are still in compliance then the PRTD should be approved. For H&C cases, some are approved and some are refused.
2. This question is confusing. Are you asking about renewing your PR card once you are in Canada? You can certainly try to do this under H&C and without meeting RO. These application generally take quite a bit longer to process and you also want to remain in Canada during processing. So you'd want to be prepared to be able to stay in Canada for many months, potentially the better part of a year or even longer. Some H&C PR card renewal applications are approved and some are refused. There aren't any stats available.
3) Yes, you can fly to the US and reenter Canada through a land border without the PRTD.
Hello, thanks for the reply.

To clarify the confusion:
Yes I will get PRTD because as of now I am in compliance. However if PRTD is received after 45 days, I am no longer in compliance to apply the PR CARD as I won't be able to land in Canada in time to be still be in compliance, I only have 45 days before I become out of that range. The new application for PR CARD will capture my 730 days requirement from the day I apply for PR card.

If they theoretically ask me to collect my card in person, could I apply for another PRTD on H&C or tourist visa and fly again to collect it, or staying in Canada is the only option?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,938
22,177
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hello, thanks for the reply.

To clarify the confusion:
Yes I will get PRTD because as of now I am in compliance. However if PRTD is received after 45 days, I am no longer in compliance to apply the PR CARD as I won't be able to land in Canada in time to be still be in compliance, I only have 45 days before I become out of that range. The new application for PR CARD will capture my 730 days requirement from the day I apply for PR card.

If they theoretically ask me to collect my card in person, could I apply for another PRTD on H&C or tourist visa and fly again to collect it, or staying in Canada is the only option?
If they ask you to collect your PR card in person and you aren't in Canada, your best bet will be to fly to the US and reenter Canada through a land border. Applying for a PRTD under H&C will be risky. Note that leaving Canada after applying for a PR card under H&C generally reduces the chances of approval. It would be better to wait until you are actually ready to move to Canada and live here.
 
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ParulB

Star Member
Mar 27, 2017
91
7
App. Filed.......
08-06-2017
AOR Received.
08-06-2017
If they ask you to collect your PR card in person and you aren't in Canada, your best bet will be to fly to the US and reenter Canada through a land border. Applying for a PRTD under H&C will be risky. Note that leaving Canada after applying for a PR card under H&C generally reduces the chances of approval. It would be better to wait until you are actually ready to move to Canada and live here.
Thank you for the clarification. There's actually no possibility that I can move right now given my father's condition. So my best bet as I am understanding now is 1) I get PRTD within 40 day mark and manage to apply for PR Card within RO limit. Or 2) Use the opportunity of H&C at a later time when I am actually able to move and whatever happens, happens then.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,437
3,183
Thank you for the clarification. There's actually no possibility that I can move right now given my father's condition. So my best bet as I am understanding now is 1) I get PRTD within 40 day mark and manage to apply for PR Card within RO limit. Or 2) Use the opportunity of H&C at a later time when I am actually able to move and whatever happens, happens then.
@scylla has covered most of what a forum like this can offer in your situation.

Assuming you get a PR TD and come to Canada, and apply for a new PR card, not only would it be risky to leave Canada while the PR card application is pending, but even if you are given a new PR card, leaving Canada for a lengthy period of time after getting the new PR card will be risking the loss of your status.

Be aware, in particular, a new PR card does not start a new five year period for calculating compliance with the Residency Obligation. The clock does not restart.

You observed:

"I cannot return to Canada as of yet. I am hoping to save my PR so I can return in future in time to still complete my 2 years obligation before my next PR card expires, assuming I get it . . . "​

From now on (since April last year), your compliance with the RO requires 730 days presence in Canada within the previous five years as of any day your RO compliance is questioned or calculated. So unless you come to stay now, except for short absences from Canada, you are going to be in breach of the RO soon.

Again, a new PR card will not start a new five year clock. It would improve the odds of being waived back into Canada in the future, without being questioned about RO compliance at the Port-of-Entry when you next arrive here. But if you are gone for any significantly lengthy time that's gambling; the longer you are gone the more that will increase the amount you are in breach, increase the likelihood of a RO examination attendant your arrival at the PoE, and it is likely to make it more difficult to successfully present a H&C case.

Thus, at this stage your choices, if you are looking to keep Canadian PR status, are basically limited to either staying here for two years, or rely on making a strong H&C case in the future (when you are ready to come to STAY), recognizing that the longer you are outside Canada, the more difficult it will likely be to make a successful H&C case.

That's apart from and in addition to the risks and hurdles @scylla has discussed.
 

ParulB

Star Member
Mar 27, 2017
91
7
App. Filed.......
08-06-2017
AOR Received.
08-06-2017
Hi All, my issue is resolved for now and I am coming back to update:

Thanks everyone for the reply. I did not apply for PRTD in urgency, but somehow it got processed as urgent due to my supporting letter detailing circumstances and I got it within 2 days. So for now I will be able to go to Canada as soon as my passport arrives (already submitted) and apply for PR Card within RO compliance, since I will arrive in Canada in time to do so. I am looking for making alternate arrangements for my father situation to prolong my stay in Canada.
 
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