Proxy Marriage Even Though It Is Not

[pomgrapes]

So I applied for a Family Class Spousal sponsorship on Feb, 10 2022. Already completed my Biometrics and Medical Exams had to travel out of my home country for biometrics because it is not available in my country. My marriage was a traditional marriage in Yemen where the men and women ceremonies are don't completely separate they are done usually within a week or even two weeks of each other, mine was done a month before because I had an opportunity to save money and make a wedding ceremony me and my sisters daughter together to split the expenses, so I did. Also in my country and probably in a majority of middle eastern countries the marriage certificate is always written before any ceremonies or a wedding is done. The officer has deemed my marriage that of a proxy even though it is not. He gave me the option to update and continue my application as a common-law partner and from his letter I don't really understand what he wants me to provide him so he can do that do I take the common-law document checklist and send them everything again plus the extra stuff for common-law or do I just send him something specific. It sadness me this has happened and the officer actually thinks that we were married by proxy even though we have been married and lived together for 4 years and 1 year apart from each other the 2023 year because my husband went to Canada so we can apply we also have a 4 year old son and I'm pregnant at the end of my fifth month. We have also visited each other in Jordan twice in 2023 first visit was 3 months and the second was 1 month we sent everything via webform to them about our visits before this letter as well.

Thank You appreciate all the help we can get



Procedural Fairness Letter From IRCC London Office:

Having reviewed your file, I have concerns that you married by proxy. The marriage certificate is

dated 6 July 2018. You then had separate wedding ceremonies a month apart from each other

and there are no photographs of you together at the wedding. It therefore appears that your

sponsor was not physically present at your marriage, and I have concerns that you are in an

excluded relationship as described in section 117(9)(c.1) of the Regulations and not considered

a member of the family class for this reason.

However, if your marriage did take place by proxy and it is not considered valid for immigration

purposes, I am willing to consider whether you and the sponsor meet the required definition of

common-law partners and therefore assess if you are a member of the family class under this

category.

R1(1). “common-law partner” means, in relation to a person, an individual who is cohabiting with

the person in a conjugal relationship, having so cohabited for a period of at least one year.

Before a final decision is made, I would like to give you an opportunity to provide a response to

the above concerns and confirm if you would like to be considered as common-law partners. If

so, please provide documentary evidence to demonstrate that you previously cohabited

together for over year. Please also use this opportunity to indicate any further information you

would like to be considered in respect of your application

 

[armoured]

The officer has deemed my marriage that of a proxy even though it is not. He gave me the option to update and continue my application as a common-law partner and from his letter I don't really understand what he wants me to provide him so he can do that do I take the common-law document checklist and send them everything again plus the extra stuff for common-law or do I just send him something specific.
...
the officer actually thinks that we were married by proxy even though we have been married and lived together for 4 years and 1 year apart from each other the 2023 year because my husband went to Canada so we can apply we also have a 4 year old son and I'm pregnant at the end of my fifth month. We have also visited each other in Jordan twice in 2023 first visit was 3 months and the second was 1 month we sent everything via webform to them about our visits before this letter as well.
...
I would like to give you an opportunity to provide a response to
the above concerns and confirm if you would like to be considered as common-law partners. If
so, please provide documentary evidence to demonstrate that you previously cohabited
together for over year. Please also use this opportunity to indicate any further information you
would like to be considered in respect of your application

This is my personal opinion only:
-it is, IMO, pointless to attempt to challenge the proxy marriage determination at this point BECAUSE you have children and lived together for four years before (continuously).

-But this is not really significant bad news, since they've invited you to be considered as common law - and they are hinting, informally, that the common law consideration would probably be accepted.

-Yes, you will be expected to provide documentary evidence of some kind that you lived together full-time, for a minimum period of 12 months. It's okay that this was in the past. Disclose the full four year period AND show documents of living together - the main thing is that the documents must show a period of living together of at least 12 months. (What I mean is: since the period you lived together is much more than 12 months, tell them the start and end date of you living together, but make sure you document at least 12 months).

-Given the situation, esp that you have children, they're likely to be at least somewhat understanding of the situation.

-In your letter in response, I'd suggest you specify that you do not agree with the judgment that this was a proxy marriage as it was in full accordance with local traditions* and local law and you are considered validly married under [Yemeni] law; BUT that you agree to have the application considered as common-law partners in the interests of expedience and the children and since as a couple you quite obviously qualify as common law partners.

-I do not think there are any significant negatives to having been admitted to Canada and becoming a PR as common-law instead of married - if there are any at all. (There can sometimes be difficulties in demonstrating common law, or meeting the common law test - which should not be the case for you if you lived together four years plus.)

*This assertion that you do not agree that it was a proxy marriage is mostly meaningless - but there's a possibility it might preserve some legal options for you in future. But again, it's mostly pointless to argue the point with them - assuming that the main thing you and your spouse want is for you and children to be admitted to Canada under the spousal sponsorship.

I, honestly, can't think of any terribly significant consequences for you as a couple if IRCC does not recognize your marriage. Common law will be sufficient for immigration. I believe most contexts that matter later in Canada will simply take at face value your foreign marriage certificate - keeping in mind that within Canada, marriage is a provincial matter - and ascertain that you were legally married abroad and therefore you are married. (The 'proxy marriage' determination by IRCC doesn't bind the provinces in any way - it serves only as a limit on what qualifies for immigration purposes).

Now later, once in Canada, you and your spouse may wish to get legal advice on the matter. (In fact, I'd urge you to get legal advice on your own, separate from your spouse - you may have better protections as married and not common law, and it therefore might matter to you in future). But the answer might well be that as a provincial matter, your marriage would be considered valid - but I honestly have no idea, that's a question for a qualified lawyer in your province of residence. (They'd also suggest how best to deal with it, which might be as simple as getting married at city hall, or it might be more complicated).

Good luck.

 

[pomgrapes]

This is my personal opinion only:
-it is, IMO, pointless to attempt to challenge the proxy marriage determination at this point BECAUSE you have children and lived together for four years before (continuously).

-But this is not really significant bad news, since they've invited you to be considered as common law - and they are hinting, informally, that the common law consideration would probably be accepted.

-Yes, you will be expected to provide documentary evidence of some kind that you lived together full-time, for a minimum period of 12 months. It's okay that this was in the past. Disclose the full four year period AND show documents of living together - the main thing is that the documents must show a period of living together of at least 12 months. (What I mean is: since the period you lived together is much more than 12 months, tell them the start and end date of you living together, but make sure you document at least 12 months).

-Given the situation, esp that you have children, they're likely to be at least somewhat understanding of the situation.

-In your letter in response, I'd suggest you specify that you do not agree with the judgment that this was a proxy marriage as it was in full accordance with local traditions* and local law and you are considered validly married under [Yemeni] law; BUT that you agree to have the application considered as common-law partners in the interests of expedience and the children and since as a couple you quite obviously qualify as common law partners.

-I do not think there are any significant negatives to having been admitted to Canada and becoming a PR as common-law instead of married - if there are any at all. (There can sometimes be difficulties in demonstrating common law, or meeting the common law test - which should not be the case for you if you lived together four years plus.)

*This assertion that you do not agree that it was a proxy marriage is mostly meaningless - but there's a possibility it might preserve some legal options for you in future. But again, it's mostly pointless to argue the point with them - assuming that the main thing you and your spouse want is for you and children to be admitted to Canada under the spousal sponsorship.

I, honestly, can't think of any terribly significant consequences for you as a couple if IRCC does not recognize your marriage. Common law will be sufficient for immigration. I believe most contexts that matter later in Canada will simply take at face value your foreign marriage certificate - keeping in mind that within Canada, marriage is a provincial matter - and ascertain that you were legally married abroad and therefore you are married. (The 'proxy marriage' determination by IRCC doesn't bind the provinces in any way - it serves only as a limit on what qualifies for immigration purposes).

Now later, once in Canada, you and your spouse may wish to get legal advice on the matter. (In fact, I'd urge you to get legal advice on your own, separate from your spouse - you may have better protections as married and not common law, and it therefore might matter to you in future). But the answer might well be that as a provincial matter, your marriage would be considered valid - but I honestly have no idea, that's a question for a qualified lawyer in your province of residence. (They'd also suggest how best to deal with it, which might be as simple as getting married at city hall, or it might be more complicated).

Good luck.

I thank you, and my whole family expresses gratitude for your kindness in spending your time replying to me. I kindly ask if you can answer just a couple of my questions. When raising the webform to tell them to consider me as a common-law partner, should I fill out the imm1344e form again, indicating myself as a common-law partner living outside Canada, as well as the imm5562 form with my new travel information too and from Jordan, as well as some other forms? Should I also go by the common-law document checklist and give them everything that is requested by a common-law partner to prove our relationship, even if some of the stuff has already been sent in the original application, like proof of contact chats, proof of financial support, etc.? Should I send in newly dated proof of all the proof of the relationship to the sponsor as well?

Thank you very much.

 

[Naturgrl]

Is your husband a citizen or PR? I read the letter as not asking for you to fill out the forms but tell IRCC that you want to proceed as a common law and then prove common law prior to February 2022. You need to provide proof that you were living continuously together for at least one year between July 2018 and February 2022. So proof is leases, bank accounts, driver’s licenses, tax returns, insurance policies. Need to show that you lived at the same address.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/non-economic-classes/family-class-determining-spouse/assessing-common.html#

 

[armoured]

I thank you, and my whole family expresses gratitude for your kindness in spending your time replying to me. I kindly ask if you can answer just a couple of my questions. When raising the webform to tell them to consider me as a common-law partner, should I fill out the imm1344e form again, indicating myself as a common-law partner living outside Canada, as well as the imm5562 form with my new travel information too and from Jordan, as well as some other forms? Should I also go by the common-law document checklist and give them everything that is requested by a common-law partner to prove our relationship, even if some of the stuff has already been sent in the original application, like proof of contact chats, proof of financial support, etc.? Should I send in newly dated proof of all the proof of the relationship to the sponsor as well?

Thank you very much.

Some of these things you're going to have to decide for yourself.

-In your letter, I'd just say 'please let us know what else we should provide.' Indicate, for example, if you are not sure if you should provide updated - personally I wouldn't redo the 1344 form, but I don't know. (With one caution, be sure to address any questions/info that you must provide as common law - you can always put it into a letter.)
-Same for the travel info form - personally I wouldn't but I don't know.

Logic of below: you are providing everything now that specifically answers the question of whether you are common law (i..e that you resided together 12 months or more,continuous). Even if you provided before, you put it into a single package so that it is easy for them to decide. You leave out everyting that's not specifically about whether you meet common law test. [Repeat: this is my opinion, I could be wrong.]

-The important part: proof of common law. I would provide a list of all the things you are providing evidence of that specifically addresses whether you lived together and when (leases/property ownership, addresses, official documents with addresses, etc) - even if that information was provided before. [Tell them it was provided before but you are providing again for convenience.]
-If anything new - that they have not seen before - again, that supports cohabitation - put that separate and tell them it is new information they have not seen before.
-For things that support your relationship but aren't really specifically about where you lived/when you lived together (the usual relationship support information, chats, financial support [that doesnt' specify where you lived] - my OPINION is provide the list of these things too and note that you are not providing them again because with original app. [With the usual 'we would be happy to provide again if needed']

I don't think you need to provide new/updated info about your relationship, unless something has cahnged or something that supports your relationship in a way it wasn't before.

 

[pomgrapes]

Is your husband a citizen or PR? I read the letter as not asking for you to fill out the forms but tell IRCC that you want to proceed as a common law and then prove common law prior to February 2022. You need to provide proof that you were living continuously together for at least one year between July 2018 and February 2022. So proof is leases, bank accounts, driver’s licenses, tax returns, insurance policies. Need to show that you lived at the same address.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/permanent-residence/non-economic-classes/family-class-determining-spouse/assessing-common.html#

Thank you very much for your reply. My husband is a citizen.