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Urgent advice needed: ON PCC for citizenship application

akgpandey

Hero Member
Apr 21, 2020
220
46
I am a bit confused with the statement below and would appreciate if someone can help me on that.
In the past four (4) years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18)?

My past four years window is from Oct 2019 to Oct 2023. I stayed in India (my Origin) from July 2019 to Jan 2020. Thus 3 months falls within the 4 years window but more than 183 days in a row if I consider more than four years. Do I need to say "Yes" or "No"?

If I select Yes, I guess they would ask me to provide police clearance. I have already submitted PCC for this time period when I filed PR on Sept 2020. But travelled twice to India after getting PR in 2022 for 1 month vacation. Can any one suggest what should be done in this case?
 

forw.jane

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2019
6,908
2,810
I am a bit confused with the statement below and would appreciate if someone can help me on that.
In the past four (4) years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18)?

My past four years window is from Oct 2019 to Oct 2023. I stayed in India (my Origin) from July 2019 to Jan 2020. Thus 3 months falls within the 4 years window but more than 183 days in a row if I consider more than four years. Do I need to say "Yes" or "No"?

If I select Yes, I guess they would ask me to provide police clearance. I have already submitted PCC for this time period when I filed PR on Sept 2020. But travelled twice to India after getting PR in 2022 for 1 month vacation. Can any one suggest what should be done in this case?
You don’t need to provide a police certificate if
  • you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
  • this time falls within the past 4 year
As India was your country of origin you don't need one.
 

akgpandey

Hero Member
Apr 21, 2020
220
46
You don’t need to provide a police certificate if
  • you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
  • this time falls within the past 4 year
As India was your country of origin you don't need one.
Thanks @forw.jane , This means I should then say "NO" to this question. DO you think I need to explain this in LOE ?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
I am a bit confused with the statement below and would appreciate if someone can help me on that.
In the past four (4) years, were you in a country or territory other than Canada for 183 days or more in a row (since the age of 18)?

My past four years window is from Oct 2019 to Oct 2023. I stayed in India (my Origin) from July 2019 to Jan 2020. Thus 3 months falls within the 4 years window but more than 183 days in a row if I consider more than four years. Do I need to say "Yes" or "No"?

If I select Yes, I guess they would ask me to provide police clearance. I have already submitted PCC for this time period when I filed PR on Sept 2020. But travelled twice to India after getting PR in 2022 for 1 month vacation. Can any one suggest what should be done in this case?
Response from @forw.jane is correct. But beside the point.

For clarification, the reason you answer "no" (to question 10.b) in the application) is because no, you did not spend 183 days in a row in another country during the preceding four years. That is a fact question. Either YES you spent that period in another country (even if your home country) within the preceding four years, or NO you did not spend that period of time in another country.

And because you answer no, no PCC is required with the application (IRCC can request a PCC from applicants later in the process; this is not common but may depend on the amount of time spent in another country -- that is, even if a PCC was not required to make a complete application, IRCC can request PCC to verify the applicant has no prohibitions related to criminal charges the applicant has spent time in during the relevant four years).

The answer to the question about whether the applicant spent 183 days or more in a row in another country does NOT depend, in any way, on whether or not the applicant needs to submit a PCC to make a complete application. IN particular, there are various circumstances in which the truthful (factual) answer to this question is "yes" but the applicant still does not need to include a PCC.

@forw.jane cites the most common one: it was time in home country immediately prior to becoming a PR. If applicant was in their home country for more than six months within the relevant four years, and that was just before they became a PR, they still answer "yes" in response (this is question 10.b) in the application), list the country in the chart, select "no" in the drop down chart (as in "no" I will not provide a Police Certificate), and then give an explanation why not . . . which in this example would be to simply say "period of days in XXX country was time in my home country immediately preceding becoming a PR." For other examples see those set out in the guide. Additionally, if there is some reason why the applicant cannot provide a PCC, they can check "no" in the drop down and state why they cannot get a PCC in the explanation box.

So, typically there is no need to submit any supplemental explanation or LoE when the applicant checks "yes" to 10.b) but is not submitting a PCC with the application -- the explanation should be short enough to fit in the box provided in the form (allows up to 200 characters I think).
 
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ramansingh05

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2014
485
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New Delhi
Category........
FSW
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New Delhi Visa Office
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2171
App. Filed.......
CRS- 422
Doc's Request.
Awaited
Nomination.....
19-04-2017
AOR Received.
Awaited
IELTS Request
08-10-2016
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12-05-2017
Med's Done....
12-05-2017
VISA ISSUED...
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LANDED..........
Awaited
Hi @dpenabill - I am in a process of applying citizenship. I completed my 1095 days 2 weeks back. I landed in Mar 2018 and then went back in Aug 2018 and again landed back in May 2021. So now I completed my 1095 days however I lived more than 183 days (from Aug 2018- May 2021) so Do I need to submit PCC or can I wait for 183 more to avoid this issue?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Hi @dpenabill - I am in a process of applying citizenship. I completed my 1095 days 2 weeks back. I landed in Mar 2018 and then went back in Aug 2018 and again landed back in May 2021. So now I completed my 1095 days however I lived more than 183 days (from Aug 2018- May 2021) so Do I need to submit PCC or can I wait for 183 more to avoid this issue?
In addition to not being an expert, I have been less and less engaged in FAQ related discussions. I am confident there are many others here who are keeping up better with basic how-to-apply questions. (These days I am generally focused on a few more complex issues that tend to involve applying law, including case law, rather than application form instructions, and which can lead to litigation-like procedures with potentially serious and negative consequences.)

The instructions for question 10.b) are mostly straight-forward. When in doubt, follow the instructions; otherwise, yep, FOLLOW the INSTRUCTIONS.

Applicants who answer [Yes] in response to 10.b) are generally required to submit a police clearance with the application. There are some exceptions. The exceptions are explained and illustrated in the Guide. (Does not appear your situation would fit any of the exceptions; but YOU need to read and follow the instructions, and figure these things out for YOURSELF, given YOUR facts.)

I will say (but still emphasize the need to read the instructions for oneself and apply them for oneself) that for the PR making an application as of today, May 23, 2024, if they were in another country continuously for six months between May 23, 2020 and today, May 23, 2024, they need to answer [Yes] to 10.b) and that probably means they need to submit a police certificate. Not complicated.

Many prospective citizenship applicants who were living outside Canada could indeed wait to apply until they no longer were in another country continuously for six months within the preceding four years. BUT it warrants remembering that a [No] answer to 10.b) only means that a police certificate is not needed to make a complete application. Applicants can nonetheless be required to provide a police certificate later in the process. And there is a real risk of this for those with significant periods of time in another country.

That is, even if you wait long enough to not be required to submit a police certificate with the application, you could still be required to provide one later. I cannot guess how it will go in your particular situation, but my sense is that waiting a while more than 200 days to apply, so that you were in another country only around five months within the preceding four years, might be the kind of scenario in which an IRCC citizenship processing agent easily recognizes you waited just long enough to avoid including a police certificate with the application . . . and it is fairly predictable that likely results in at least some degree of increased risk that either a police certificate will be required or IRCC will make some non-routine inquiries, either of which could delay processing the application.
 

ajseekshelp

Member
Sep 25, 2021
19
1
HI ramansingh05
Please do update what you ended up doing.
I am in exactly same situation as you. Got my PR in 2019 and stayed in India until 2021 starting. Now my physical number of days in Canada are well over 1100. However, I am still in the window where I have been in India for over 183 days in the last 4 years. I am thinking about just waiting out for a couple of months before applying for a citizenship. I do have a PCC from 2023 when I visited India shortly, however, that PCC will not be considered as I got it when in India and is over 6 months old now.
 

forw.jane

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2019
6,908
2,810
HI ramansingh05
Please do update what you ended up doing.
I am in exactly same situation as you. Got my PR in 2019 and stayed in India until 2021 starting. Now my physical number of days in Canada are well over 1100. However, I am still in the window where I have been in India for over 183 days in the last 4 years. I am thinking about just waiting out for a couple of months before applying for a citizenship. I do have a PCC from 2023 when I visited India shortly, however, that PCC will not be considered as I got it when in India and is over 6 months old now.
Did you visit India again after 2023. If No, you can use the same PCC-

To be valid, the police certificate must be either issued
  • after the last time you were in that country, or
  • no more than 6 months before the date you sign your citizenship application
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

Refer Section 10 b
 

ajseekshelp

Member
Sep 25, 2021
19
1
Thanks for your message.

The PCC was issued in May and I stayed in India until July; so technically it was not issued "AFTER" my last trip but during my last trip. So, I think I cannot use the existing PCC.

Did you visit India again after 2023. If No, you can use the same PCC-

To be valid, the police certificate must be either issued
  • after the last time you were in that country, or
  • no more than 6 months before the date you sign your citizenship application
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

Refer Section 10 b
 

ramansingh05

Hero Member
Dec 15, 2014
485
11
New Delhi
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
New Delhi Visa Office
NOC Code......
2171
App. Filed.......
CRS- 422
Doc's Request.
Awaited
Nomination.....
19-04-2017
AOR Received.
Awaited
IELTS Request
08-10-2016
Med's Request
12-05-2017
Med's Done....
12-05-2017
VISA ISSUED...
Awaited
LANDED..........
Awaited
HI ramansingh05
Please do update what you ended up doing.
I am in exactly same situation as you. Got my PR in 2019 and stayed in India until 2021 starting. Now my physical number of days in Canada are well over 1100. However, I am still in the window where I have been in India for over 183 days in the last 4 years. I am thinking about just waiting out for a couple of months before applying for a citizenship. I do have a PCC from 2023 when I visited India shortly, however, that PCC will not be considered as I got it when in India and is over 6 months old now.
Hi,
I DMed you.. lets connect
 

MS201812

Full Member
Jun 10, 2018
20
11
Thanks for your message.

The PCC was issued in May and I stayed in India until July; so technically it was not issued "AFTER" my last trip but during my last trip. So, I think I cannot use the existing PCC.
Can you tell me what you ended up doing? I am in a similar situation with a slight caveat. Got PR while I was in the US, soft landed and stayed there for a year, then took a break, went to India for 7 months before moving to Canada permanently. My 1095 day eligibility completed end of July but I am waiting till end of this month to apply so I don't need a PCC from India. What happened in your case? Did they still request one?
 

PeterDinh

Newbie
Nov 15, 2020
3
0
You don’t need to provide a police certificate if
  • you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
  • this time falls within the past 4 year
As India was your country of origin you don't need one.
Hi forw.jane, can you tell me where to findin the official canada.ca website the passage you’ve said as:
“You don’t need to provide a police certificate if
  • you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
  • this time falls within the past 4 year”.

    since I didn’t find it in the section for Canadian citizenship application. Thanks
 

forw.jane

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2019
6,908
2,810
Hi forw.jane, can you tell me where to findin the official canada.ca website the passage you’ve said as:
“You don’t need to provide a police certificate if
  • you were in your country of origin immediately prior to becoming a permanent resident and landing in Canada, and
  • this time falls within the past 4 year”.

    since I didn’t find it in the section for Canadian citizenship application. Thanks
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-0002-application-canadian-citizenship-under-subsection-5-1-adults-18-years-older.html

Question 10 b