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PR Renewal Application

IreneF

Newbie
Jun 12, 2023
7
0
Hello people,
I am in the process of renewing our PR cards for me and my family (spouse and minor)
I am so confused with the PR obligations part. We have lived in Canada for the last 5 years making the required days, but have also made short vacations in these 5 years. One being the longest 1 year in Dubai after we made our first landing. Now I am confused what option should I choose as I was unemployed in Dubai. Option A B or others. Also for my child what should I choose?
And do I need to fill up a use or representative form for my child?
I am all lost
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,594
13,523
Hello people,
I am in the process of renewing our PR cards for me and my family (spouse and minor)
I am so confused with the PR obligations part. We have lived in Canada for the last 5 years making the required days, but have also made short vacations in these 5 years. One being the longest 1 year in Dubai after we made our first landing. Now I am confused what option should I choose as I was unemployed in Dubai. Option A B or others. Also for my child what should I choose?
And do I need to fill up a use or representative form for my child?
I am all lost
1 year is no considered a vacation. 1 week to 1 month is considered a vacation. Just be honest that you were unemployed if you weren’t working. Were your children attending school in Dubai? How many other “ vacations have you taken and are any of the multiple months? Do you meet the 730 days within the 5 years since landing if you don’t count your “vacations”? Assume you only applied for healthcards after coming back from Dubai since you didn’t qualify to apply for health cards on your short landing knowing you were going to Dubai and would not meet the residency obligation to qualify for provincial healthcare.
 
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IreneF

Newbie
Jun 12, 2023
7
0
1 year is no considered a vacation. 1 week to 1 month is considered a vacation. Just be honest that you were unemployed if you weren’t working. Were your children attending school in Dubai? How many other “ vacations have you taken and are any of the multiple months? Do you meet the 730 days within the 5 years since landing if you don’t count your “vacations”? Assume you only applied for healthcards after coming back from Dubai since you didn’t qualify to apply for health cards on your short landing knowing you were going to Dubai and would not meet the residency obligation to qualify for provincial healthcare.
Well yea for the 1 year I mentioned I was I unemployed and in Dubai as my husband was working there.
And yes we have completed the required days here in Canada. I am confused for the part 5.5 on the application, as we travelled as a family for a month outside canada and when my husband works here in canada during that time and we took the vacation together - so should that be a C for me as well as my son? As I travelled with my spouse Who is a PR and works with a Canadian business? Or should it be others - as we all have our PR including my son.
Also should then my husband be showing proof of his employment?
Thank you
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,594
13,523
Well yea for the 1 year I mentioned I was I unemployed and in Dubai as my husband was working there.
And yes we have completed the required days here in Canada. I am confused for the part 5.5 on the application, as we travelled as a family for a month outside canada and when my husband works here in canada during that time and we took the vacation together - so should that be a C for me as well as my son? As I travelled with my spouse Who is a PR and works with a Canadian business? Or should it be others - as we all have our PR including my son.
Also should then my husband be showing proof of his employment?
Thank you
Time outside Canada on business trip is rarely counted towards RO.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Time outside Canada on business trip is rarely counted towards RO.
This is at best misleading but appears it might be deliberate misinformation.

To be clear, it is not accurate to say that time outside Canada on business trips cannot qualify for the credit prescribed in in Section 28(2)(a)(iii), for days a PR is "outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business."

Time outside Canada employed by a Canadian business that meets the qualifying criteria for the credit, for days outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business, is not excluded from this credit just because the assignment to work abroad is or might be characterized as a "business trip."

That said, what actually qualifies for this credit can be tricky, as discussed at length elsewhere. Meanwhile, for @IreneF (the OP) this is largely an irrelevant tangent, of no import, because the OP is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation based on days IN Canada.

Beyond that, apart from the misinformation, it warrants noting that your responses here are far more confusing than helpful. The OP basically asks two quite simple questions, and you did not answer either of them. In contrast, while I am not good at reading between the lines, it sure looks like you are deliberately throwing shade here. What's up with this?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
I am in the process of renewing our PR cards for me and my family (spouse and minor)
I am so confused with the PR obligations part. We have lived in Canada for the last 5 years making the required days, but have also made short vacations in these 5 years. One being the longest 1 year in Dubai after we made our first landing. Now I am confused what option should I choose as I was unemployed in Dubai. Option A B or others. Also for my child what should I choose?
And do I need to fill up a use or representative form for my child?
The applicable instructions here are quite straight-forward.

I will explain, but it is important for anyone making an application to IRCC to carefully read the instructions, and not be at all reluctant to read them again, and again, in order to understand them as best they can. If they still seem unclear or confusing, posing questions here can help but it is probably more important to sit down with someone who is very proficient with the English language (or French if using the French version of the forms and instructions), and significant experience in filling out government forms, to help read the questions and instructions.

As you have already encountered, sometimes responses in a forum like this are not helpful or even intentionally not helpful.

Child application and Representatives:

Each PR makes their own PR card application, including minor or dependent children. The application for a minor child who is 14 or older must be signed by the minor and also have the application signed by a parent or guardian. The application for a minor under the age of 14 is to be signed ONLY by a parent or guardian.

If a representative is employed to make or help make this application, a IMM 5476 Use of a Representative form must be submitted.

Otherwise, no. In this context (applications for a minor child) the parent who signs the application is not a representative, so no IMM 5476 is submitted.

A neighbour or friend or family member who just helps you go through the form and instructions, to help you better understand what is asked, does NOT need to be disclosed as a representative, no IMM 5476 required.

Reasons for absence Section 5.5 in PR card application:

As long as you (and other family members also making a PR card application) were actually physically present in Canada more than 730 days within the preceding five years, how you fill in the boxes in 5.5 ("Time Spent Outside Canada") for "Reason for absence" is not important EXCEPT, obviously, you need to give an answer that is honest, your best answer based on YOUR understanding of what is asked and how to answer it based on YOUR circumstances.

The boxes in the column titled "Reason for absence" have a drop down menu listing A, B, C and Other. Unless you are specifically claiming credit toward the PR Residency Obligation based on the situations referenced as A, B, or C, it is OK to check "Other" and then very briefly describe why you were outside Canada for that particular period of time. Each line in this form is for a particular period of absence, as stated in the From and To boxes on that line. For a lengthy absence, during which you may have remained abroad for multiple reasons, it is OK to state the primary reason as long as that is not misleading. Thus, for example, if the PR spent 14 months abroad primarily for a period the PR was employed abroad, even if the PR took holidays or vacations during that time, or visited family for a period of time, it should be OK to check "Other" and then in the box state "employed in France" (or wherever it was). If it seems this could be misleading, it would be OK to briefly add further description of other reason. If this is too long for the box, a supplemental page can more fully explain with a specific reference to item 5.5 and the respective period of time abroad. Keep it simple. Honest and simple.

If it was a spouse or parent who was employed abroad, again check "Other" and perhaps state something like "living in France with spouse (or parent, as applicable) employed there." NOTE: it is important to use YOUR OWN words stating YOUR best answer.

It should be obvious and easy to know when to check "Other" and enter "holidays" or "vacation" or "visiting family" in the appropriate box. Again, YOUR best, honest answer.

As long as the total number of days the form automatically adds up (based on the From and To dates entered in 5.5), as the number of days outside Canada, is LESS than 1095, all is well. And so long as you have been truthful, honest, you are OK.


Credit for Time Abroad -- Reason for absence "A" and "C"

If the PR was physically present in Canada more than 730 days in the relevant five years, so that the total number of days outside Canada is less than 1095 days as automatically totaled by the form based on dates entered in 5.5, the number of days outside Canada for reasons A or C does NOT matter.

If you reasonably believe that your spouse's employment outside Canada meets the criteria to qualify for RO credit for days outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business, then you can check reason "C." But as noted above, if you do not need this credit to meet the PR RO, there is no need to wrestle with this . . . checking "Other" and referring to living abroad with spouse employed abroad as the reason for the absence should be OK. You could even mention spouse was abroad on assignment for spouse's Canadian employer (if that is a truthful statement). No need to get tangled in whether the employment qualifies for the credit . . . AS LONG AS, of course, your days IN Canada add up to more than 730 (total days outside Canada are less than 1095).

And yes we have completed the required days here in Canada. I am confused for the part 5.5 on the application, as we travelled as a family for a month outside canada and when my husband works here in canada during that time and we took the vacation together - so should that be a C for me as well as my son? As I travelled with my spouse Who is a PR and works with a Canadian business? Or should it be others - as we all have our PR including my son.
Also should then my husband be showing proof of his employment?
If, in contrast, you reasonably believe that your spouse's employment outside Canada meets the criteria to qualify for RO credit for days outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business, then you can check reason "C." And your spouse could check reason "A." For you and the children, you proceed to complete 5.6.

Then, additionally, YOU and your spouse, and minor children as well, will EACH need to provide evidence to support the claim for this credit. See Appendix A and "Situation A: Employment outside Canada" for what evidence needs to be included to prove the employment qualifies for this credit. Again, EACH of you will need to include this evidence with your individual application. You and each of the children will also need to provide the additional evidence, in addition to proof for employed abroad credit, that is further described under "Situation C: Accompanying a permanent resident outside Canada."

Each application, for each individual, must include the supporting evidence, for that individual PR. So, for a family, lots of copies.

But if this credit is NOT needed, again there is no harm, no foul, nothing evasive or misleading, let alone constituting a misrepresentation, if the PR checks "Other" as the reason for the absence and, in effect, is thereby not asking or applying for the credit for time employed outside Canada. Just be sure to be honest in stating the reason, brief but truthful.

Overall NOTE regarding employed outside Canada credit: qualifying for this credit can be tricky. Before proceeding to rely on this credit, a PR should very carefully review and evaluate whether they meet the qualifying criteria. If there is any doubt, any at all, and the PR is currently IN Canada, better to wait until meeting the PR RO based on days IN Canada to apply for a PR card rather than apply relying on this credit. Beyond that, that is getting into consult with a lawyer territory.
 

Shayjay2005

Member
Nov 29, 2023
11
2
This is at best misleading but appears it might be deliberate misinformation.

To be clear, it is not accurate to say that time outside Canada on business trips cannot qualify for the credit prescribed in in Section 28(2)(a)(iii), for days a PR is "outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business."

Time outside Canada employed by a Canadian business that meets the qualifying criteria for the credit, for days outside Canada employed on a full-time basis by a Canadian business, is not excluded from this credit just because the assignment to work abroad is or might be characterized as a "business trip."

That said, what actually qualifies for this credit can be tricky, as discussed at length elsewhere. Meanwhile, for @IreneF (the OP) this is largely an irrelevant tangent, of no import, because the OP is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation based on days IN Canada.

Beyond that, apart from the misinformation, it warrants noting that your responses here are far more confusing than helpful. The OP basically asks two quite simple questions, and you did not answer either of them. In contrast, while I am not good at reading between the lines, it sure looks like you are deliberately throwing shade here. What's up with this?
 

Shayjay2005

Member
Nov 29, 2023
11
2
In PR card renewal forms, how to enter 2 or 3 countries, one has visited in a single trip outside Canada? In Section 5.5 of PR renewal application, when I entered three countries I visited in a single trip outside Canada ( from Oct 4 to Nov 5, 2023), the days calculation assumes I went to those 3 countries from Canada and then returned to Canada, 3 times. So total days outside Canada was 3 days less than actual. I moved from one country to another without coming back to Canada. Any other way to get calculation right?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
In PR card renewal forms, how to enter 2 or 3 countries, one has visited in a single trip outside Canada? In Section 5.5 of PR renewal application, when I entered three countries I visited in a single trip outside Canada ( from Oct 4 to Nov 5, 2023), the days calculation assumes I went to those 3 countries from Canada and then returned to Canada, 3 times. So total days outside Canada was 3 days less than actual. I moved from one country to another without coming back to Canada. Any other way to get calculation right?
Each absence from Canada is defined by the date of exit from Canada and the date of return to Canada, and is a separate entry (a separate line) in the 5.5 chart; there is a column in the 5.5 chart where, for each of the trips outside Canada (each period of absence from Canada), the PR enters information about "your location(s) during your absence (city, country/territory)" . . . note it says "locations(s)," with the "(s)" allowing for multiple locations to be listed during the time away from Canada.

Does not mean the PR needs to include the location of every stop while outside Canada, or every country the PR transited. In addition to the primary destination for the trip, list additional places (locations) you stayed at for an appreciable period of time. There is a fairly small character limit, but it should easily accommodate three locations. For additional locations, beyond the character limit, use common sense and otherwise the PR needs to exercise their own discretion in deciding whether to name just the primary locations during that absence, that will fit, or list the main destination and a note to see see supplemental information, and then include information about additional locations while abroad on a separate page. For most, despite spending some time in numerous locations abroad, listing their three primary locations while abroad should suffice; but of course it is up to the individual to judge what is sufficient to be honest and not misleading, so if in doubt, include a supplemental page with the additional information.
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
14,781
1,752
Job Offer........
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1 year is no considered a vacation. 1 week to 1 month is considered a vacation. Just be honest that you were unemployed if you weren’t working. Were your children attending school in Dubai? How many other “ vacations have you taken and are any of the multiple months? Do you meet the 730 days within the 5 years since landing if you don’t count your “vacations”? Assume you only applied for healthcards after coming back from Dubai since you didn’t qualify to apply for health cards on your short landing knowing you were going to Dubai and would not meet the residency obligation to qualify for provincial healthcare.
What do you call a three year long cruise (similar to the one got cancelled recently)? I would still call it a vacation!

https://globalnews.ca/news/10113413/life-at-sea-three-year-cruise-cancelled/