+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Setting up a Canadian business and working for it while staying outside Canada

Jun 28, 2023
3
0
Hi Folks!
I received Permanent Residency and eventually the PR card a few months ago but I have not moved to Canada yet. I read that one could accrue PR days to qualify for Canadian Citizenship if one owns a Canadian for-profit business and is 'traveling' abroad for business purposes. Found this link on CIC website too: https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10
Does anyone have any information on this? Anyone tried this method?

Thanks for your help!
 

Ponga

VIP Member
Oct 22, 2013
10,416
1,468
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Hi Folks!
I received Permanent Residency and eventually the PR card a few months ago but I have not moved to Canada yet. I read that one could accrue PR days to qualify for Canadian Citizenship if one owns a Canadian for-profit business and is 'traveling' abroad for business purposes. Found this link on CIC website too: https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10
Does anyone have any information on this? Anyone tried this method?

Thanks for your help!
Congrats on obtaining your PR status!

I suspect it may not be as easy at that, but...this sounds like a perfect question for @dpenabill


[waiting patiently]
 
  • Like
Reactions: sharma_canada_pr

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,833
22,109
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hi Folks!
I received Permanent Residency and eventually the PR card a few months ago but I have not moved to Canada yet. I read that one could accrue PR days to qualify for Canadian Citizenship if one owns a Canadian for-profit business and is 'traveling' abroad for business purposes. Found this link on CIC website too: https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10
Does anyone have any information on this? Anyone tried this method?

Thanks for your help!
You are mixing up PR and citizenship residency requirements. No credit for this towards citizenship.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Hi Folks!
I received Permanent Residency and eventually the PR card a few months ago but I have not moved to Canada yet. I read that one could accrue PR days to qualify for Canadian Citizenship if one owns a Canadian for-profit business and is 'traveling' abroad for business purposes. Found this link on CIC website too: https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10
Does anyone have any information on this? Anyone tried this method?

Thanks for your help!
As @scylla noted, there is NO credit toward the physical presence requirement in qualifying for a grant of Canadian citizenship for time outside Canada in the employ of a Canadian business.

Regarding PR Residency Obligation Credit for Days Abroad In Employ of Canadian Business:

Since you cited and linked IRCC information regarding RO credit for time abroad, I suspect your question may be whether you could establish a Canadian business and get RO credit for time abroad working for this business. Maybe, but probably NOT.

Thing is, unless you and your business are well-grounded in Canada, actually operating in Canada, sufficient for you to comply with the PR Residency Obligation based on the number of days you are present in Canada, and thus have no need for any credit based on days outside Canada in the employ of a Canadian business, the odds are very high the time outside Canada employed by such a business will NOT get RO credit.

Many have tried this, by the way, and NOT succeeded.

Caution: it seems there is a tendency to confuse IRCC information about what "may" qualify for RO credit as if it is stating what will qualify for RO credit. Days abroad in the employ of a Canadian business MIGHT qualify for RO credit BUT there are specific requirements which must be met for the time abroad in the employ of a Canadian business to qualify for the credit. Qualifying for this credit is a lot more tricky than many realize. It is especially tricky, I would suggest, and actually quite difficult for employment to qualify when it is with a business the PR has established (likewise a business run by a family member).

Explaining why is complicated. (And explaining, or trying to explain why IRCC posts information in this way, which virtually invites confusion, is even more complicated.)

If you are interested in pursuing the possibility of doing this anyway, you really need to do some serious homework AND, I would strongly urge, at the least pay for an in-depth consultation with a reputable Canadian immigration lawyer. NOT a consultant.

You could begin doing the homework by following some of the links to primary sources I have posted in a discussion about this credit, in a topic titled "Working Abroad RO credit, including 'business trips;' an update" which is here:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/working-abroad-ro-credit-including-business-trips-an-update.607559/

Note: some of the links to published decisions for actual cases do not work, but the url can be copied and pasted to reach those cases.
 
Last edited:
Jun 28, 2023
3
0
Thank you so much everyone, especially dpenabill for your inputs! I will go through your forum topic and will get in touch if I have any questions.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,587
13,518
Hi Folks!
I received Permanent Residency and eventually the PR card a few months ago but I have not moved to Canada yet. I read that one could accrue PR days to qualify for Canadian Citizenship if one owns a Canadian for-profit business and is 'traveling' abroad for business purposes. Found this link on CIC website too: https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1466&top=10
Does anyone have any information on this? Anyone tried this method?

Thanks for your help!
As already specified there are some very strict set of circumstances that you need to meet to qualify to count time abroad toward RO for PR. Typically you must have already worked for your Canadian employer and have an established role in Canada Dan only be transferred abroad for a temporary basis. Many attempted to set up their own business in Canada and returned to their home country to work for their Canadian business trying to exploit this loophole. IRCC caught on quite quickly and most were denied counting this time abroad. If you want to attempt to count time towards your RO as a PR things that will be important are the size of your company in Canada, proof of operations or financial records to show that it is an active company, proof that you had worked in Canada for your company for quite a long period of time before going temporarily abroad, proof of your return to Canada and that you continues to work for your company, etc. This does not guarantee time will be counted toward your RO as a PR but for your best chances you should be meeting these requirements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sharma_canada_pr
Jun 28, 2023
3
0
As already specified there are some very strict set of circumstances that you need to meet to qualify to count time abroad toward RO for PR. Typically you must have already worked for your Canadian employer and have an established role in Canada Dan only be transferred abroad for a temporary basis. Many attempted to set up their own business in Canada and returned to their home country to work for their Canadian business trying to exploit this loophole. IRCC caught on quite quickly and most were denied counting this time abroad. If you want to attempt to count time towards your RO as a PR things that will be important are the size of your company in Canada, proof of operations or financial records to show that it is an active company, proof that you had worked in Canada for your company for quite a long period of time before going temporarily abroad, proof of your return to Canada and that you continues to work for your company, etc. This does not guarantee time will be counted toward your RO as a PR but for your best chances you should be meeting these requirements.
Would it still be tough to prove the RO for PR if I find a job at a Canadian company that is 100% remote and I work from US?
As I understand form the comments above, this sort of strategy would only work for RO for PR but not for counting days for citizenship, is that correct?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,833
22,109
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Would it still be tough to prove the RO for PR if I find a job at a Canadian company that is 100% remote and I work from US?
As I understand form the comments above, this sort of strategy would only work for RO for PR but not for counting days for citizenship, is that correct?
It will definitely not count for citizenship and you should assume it won't count for PR RO either.

There is no rule around citizenship that allows you to do this. So it's a non-starter.

For PR RO, the requirements are very specific and the scenario you've described won't meet these requirements. Have you read through the thread you were given above? I think all of the info is there. I will see if I can find the manual with the details you need to meet to count the time.

So short answer is that this won't work for PR RO either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sharma_canada_pr

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,833
22,109
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Would it still be tough to prove the RO for PR if I find a job at a Canadian company that is 100% remote and I work from US?
As I understand form the comments above, this sort of strategy would only work for RO for PR but not for counting days for citizenship, is that correct?
Here's the manual. Read from pages 25 to 30 to see the requirements you would need to meet to count this time for RO for PR:

https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ircc/migration/ircc/english/resources/manuals/op/op10-eng.pdf
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
Would it still be tough to prove the RO for PR if I find a job at a Canadian company that is 100% remote and I work from US?
That would make it nearly if not absolutely impossible to prove you qualify for the credit.

One of the requirements for work outside Canada to qualify for the credit is that it be pursuant to a TEMPORARY ASSIGNMENT, noting that both of these terms are important elements; that is, to qualify for the credit requires that the PR has been ASSIGNED to work abroad by the Canadian employer (not just allowed to work abroad for example), and that the assignment is temporary in the sense that the PR has a position working IN Canada which they will be returning to, to that position IN Canada, when the temporary assignment abroad is completed.

The information in the manual/guide referenced and linked by @scylla is a good resource, but even applying that is still TRICKY. It cannot be emphasized enough: if you do the homework, and do it objectively, and you are still considering relying on this credit to meet the RO, it would be foolish to proceed to rely on it without getting a dispositive, definitive opinion from a reputable Canadian immigration lawyer, based on a paid-for consultation in which the lawyer reviews the actual details.

Note, if the setup is oriented toward getting RO credit for time living abroad, one way or another the odds are it is NOT going to work. IRCC and CBSA and the IAD have adopted a very strict approach to this credit which very much limits its application. It is clearly intended to avoid penalizing PRs who are more or less compelled to go abroad on lengthy assignments by their Canadian employer. Not to facilitate living outside Canada.

That is, this credit is intended to be for a PR who is living and working in Canada, and THEN a Canadian employer wants the PR to do work abroad, on a temporary assignment basis (and thus is not a transfer to a position located abroad).

This credit is NOT intended to be for PRs who want work that will facilitate their living abroad.

This is not the standard, not the rule, but IRCC has clearly adopted policies and practices toward applying this credit in this way. That is, they have adopted rules and standards which when applied, strictly as they are, that is what is accomplished.

I cannot say for sure, but it seems rather obvious that if a PR is working abroad in their home country or generally located abroad in a particular area, especially one where the PR was living before becoming a PR, claiming a working-abroad-for-Canadian-business credit is almost certainly going to get examined under a powerful microscope with much skepticism.

Small and family run businesses, and very much so businesses established by the PR, are especially scrutinized.

The Problem: And it is indeed a big problem . . . the problem is that there is no way to get a ruling ahead of time. The risk that IRCC will not allow the credit is totally on the PR. And the only way to find out is to make a PR card or PR TD application relying on the credit, or attendant a Port-of-Entry 44(1) Report review after being determined to be in breach of the RO. The only safety net, and it is not a good one, is H&C relief.

To be clear: this is not to say no one actually gets this credit. Many do. There are many scenarios in which PRs are SENT abroad by their Canadian employer and the PR needs the credit to meet the RO. And they are allowed this credit.

But IRCC makes a concerted effort to keep this from being a loophole for PRs who are not actively settling in Canada PERMANENTLY.
 

Tubsmagee

Hero Member
Jul 2, 2016
438
131
Why not just move to Canada instead of trying to find a way to maintain a status that isn’t being used? Canada isn’t for everyone but if you went through the process of getting PR it makes sense to then use it.